Nursery Or Grandparents

[Guest]

Have just been listening to discussion on Jeremy Vine about recent research which says that children that go to nursery are better prepared for school than those looked after by grandparents. There were some grandparents who were naturally insulted by what was being said. Surely, we have all known children who are looked after by grandparents but also go to nursery or playgroup for part of the time, thus getting the best of both worlds - or is that too obvious? There were other contributors who were running nurseries down dreadfully - these sorts of reports make me so cross!!!!

[Guest]

My son who is now 10 was looked after by his grandparents until he was 2 and a half (from the age of 6 months). He then went to nursery from 8 - 4pm as I had returned to teaching. by the time he was 2 his vocabulary was amazing as his grandparents never stopped talking to him. His knowledge of electrical items was amazing and manners were great. I know as parents we had an imput but I really think his non-stop talking is down to his grandparents and I would not have it any other way. When he went to nursery he learnt different skills. If possible I would have chosen grandparents until he went to school but they were getting on. Others have no choice but to choose a nursery and I know of people who have done this and their children are fine.

[Rea]

I think I'd choose grandparents over nurseries, especially if it was full time.

I dont want to knock nurseries but the standards arent as high as I would want for my children. Boundaries, rules, behaviour management arent what I would want, but I know my mom, I know how she brouoght up me and my brother and thats what I would want for my children. I want someone to tell my children if they are naughty, I want them to have time to cook, I want them to have cuddles and watch TV, I want them to have space to play without being held to routines and I want them to be able to express their anger at something or someone without being told off. I want them to have an adult to themselves, I want them to have the experiences some nurseries cant or wont offer, like fancyfull's son, electrical, woodwork, motor experiences. My mom used to tell me to allow the tantrums and angry moments, where else can you express your full emotions other than at home, 'they have to have a place they can be themselves' she'd say.

For the people who dont have grandparents around and have to use a nursery I'd say, 'ok'. They are good places, but if the choice is there I still prefer nan.

[Guest]

Rea - that is so lovely - my mum looked after my little girl until she was 2 1/2 - I came home from work one day and she had the coffee table turned upside down, she was inside wizing around the lounge carpet - "what's she doing" I said to my mum "Oh, she is in a boat sailing around" - my daughter had the most wonderful 2 1/2 years of life.

 

We all have to make the most of what we have some of us are lucky to have grandparents some of us have to rely on nurseries which on the whole today are great - when my daughter was at nursery I was never told anything apart from when she had been a pain...... Dot

[Rea]

when my daughter was at nursery I was never told anything apart from when she had been a pain...... Dot

 

 

Nan's have a way of saying it so you dont feel guilty or cross, or else they just dont say it, knowing they can handle it

 

She's told me since though

[HappyMaz]

I am sorry I missed the Jeremy Vine article - usually catch this on my way home from work. Went to the pub instead today!

 

Rea your mum sounds wonderful - and I can quite see why you'd choose grandparents every time over nursery. However I think it is important for us in nurseries (whether full day care, sessional or somewhere in between) to look at how we can provide these kinds of experiences for our children, too. Every chid deserves the kind of care you described, whether with grandma and grandpa, at a childminder or in a day care setting (or at home with mum or dad, come to that).

 

If you want to know more about the research (and it was led by Judy Dunn I gather who has done some interesting research into children's relationships), click here. Its obviously a big piece of work, so it will make interesting reading.

 

Maz

[Guest]

My sister has choosen my mum to look after her child...but it is not the kind of experience I would of wanted for my children, (never leaving the house, shouting, short tempered, I could go on but I will stop there)

 

I chose to stay home with mine and they all done 2 sessions a week at the nursery where I work (I was there with them!!) - I guess it is like everything it just depends on the experiences being given, my mum didn't give me memories to treasure as a child and I would be irresponsible to of let my children have had that environment/experience at such an precious time in their life. (I know how it has affected me)

 

However the children that come to us at the nursery have some fabulous grandparents that offer them so much - there is a marked difference in some children's development - some children's communication skills are so much better than some being raised by their parents!!

Just all depends I guess, what is paramount is that care, love and attention are given to children by the bucket load - it is just so important!

 

p.s I must just add that I love my mum so very much

[JacquieL]

From what I have read in the summary of this report it was found that those children who went to Nursery, rather than being looked after by Grandparents alone were better prepared for school. Those looked after wholly or mainly by grandparents had much better verbal skills and the ability to communicate was very good compared with those who spend their time at Nursery.

By being prepared for school they meant knew more letters, colours, numbers etc. and those in Nursery mixed better socially. They felt that children gained in Nursery from more opportunities for physical activities, as Grandparents were not always able to be physically active. ( No comment!)

Common-sense tells me that children would benefit from a mixture of both if loving Grandparents are available. I also think that a well-developed vocabulary, listening skills and the ability to communicate is something to be desired. I do wonder why everything has to be a 'preparation' for school, and why they reported as the more 'formal' learning being of first importance. I haven't seen any mention of how the children's emotional well-being faired, but of course the press often pick up on a few items from a report rather than addressing all the issues raised.

I also expect that there are both good and bad Grandparents as there are good and bad settings so we can't generalise too much. One recommendation was that GRandparents should be given support and training. Does this mean they will also become subject to OFSTED I wonder!!!.

Last week I went on some training on Emotional Health and well-being and one item we discussed was the UNICEF report on well-being in rich countries. UK comes out bottom in the 6 aspects of child well-being that have been assessed. The USA is second to the bottom.

[Rea]

Rea your mum sounds wonderful - Maz

 

She is, but she was never beyond giving us a well aimed flick with the tea towel or launching the dish cloth across the kitchen at us. And I rememebr the garden cane she brought in from the garden to threaten us with. Us? No, me.

[Cait]

Who listens to Jeremy Whine? he always has such silly discussions which make me SO ANGRY so I switch him off.

[Guest Wolfie]

Those looked after wholly or mainly by grandparents had much better verbal skills and the ability to communicate was very good compared with those who spend their time at Nursery.

 

Recent research findings show without doubt that children's speech, language and communication skills on entry to school are much less well-developed than they used to be - hence the need for current initiatives such as the Talk to Your Baby campaign and Every Child a Talker programme.

 

I know that my own ideas are only based on small scale anecdotal evidence(!) but whenever I talk to grandparents (including my own Mum!) they are often horrified and astonished at the need for such initiatives, explaining that it's only common sense to talk to your babies and children throughout the day, encouraging them to help with and talk about whatever they are doing as well as spending time with them at THEIR chosen activities. Grandparents often offer that special unconditional "companionship" that is so vital to children's personal, social and emotional and language development - they give time to their grandchildren, valuing what they say and do and including them in all their activities at their own level. So this particular finding doesn't surprise me at all..I'll tell my Mum about it too, she'll be really pleased!

[Beau]

I have always tried to prepare my children for life - school is a rather transient thing. I get quite cross at these sorts of reports that choose to present a smattering of facts that suit their argument/viewpoint whilst ignoring anything which doesn't fit with it. I wish that I lived closer to my parents so that my children could spent more time with them.

 

 

I am sorry I missed the Jeremy Vine article - usually catch this on my way home from work. Went to the pub instead today!

 

What a coincidence! I went to the pub as well - we might have been sat next to each other.

[MrsWeasley]

What a coincidence! I went to the pub as well - we might have been sat next to each other.

 

well this is spooky.. I went to the pub too..

[Marion]

As a parent and a reception teacher I firmly believe that in most cases grandparents are best and would strongly disagree with the idea that children who have attended nurseries (for child care purposes as opposed to nursery school) are better prepared for school. The children who arrive in my class who have been cared for by (older) grandparents (we do have grandparents who are still in their early thirties) know nursery rhymes, letters, counting rhymes, songs can take turns and play games unlike the children who arrive from other settings. There are some lovely nurseries out there but grandparents have a wealth of knowledge to share and a vested interest in a "special" child.

[HappyMaz]

There are some lovely nurseries out there but grandparents have a wealth of knowledge to share and a vested interest in a "special" child.

We need more grannies and granddads in nurseries, I think!

 

Maz

[Marion]

We need more grannies and granddads in nurseries, I think!

 

Maz

 

Best of both worlds I'd go with that idea

[bubblejack]

I have always looked after all my grandchildren, not because their parents worked but because i enjoy having them. They always know that they can confide in me and tell me their secrets, youngest are 9 & 10 eldest 17. In fact I probably have had more time to give them more attention than I gave to their parents.Many of us grandparents actually have more energy than our own children. I think grandparents offer different things to nursery and a combination of both would be the ideal senerio.

I just wonder if the attention on this co-incides with a recent article about the state paying grandparents to care for grandchildren. Would many parents go for this option instead of nursery/childminder.They are never going to give money out for this without expecting grandparents to follow a written curriculum.

[JacquieL]

We need more grannies and granddads in nurseries, I think!

 

Maz

 

That's great I'm on my way...

 

As we all know childcare is big on the Government agenda for all sorts of reasons. Well-being has also become a big issue because we would get better learning outcomes with happy balanced children and a not so exhausted childcare/teaching workforce!

 

The Unicef report covered 21 countries, but excluded one or two large countries such as Australia and New Zealand who didn't have appropriate data.

We were overall at the bottom, but came 21 out of 21 (rock bottom) in the areas of family and peer relationships and behaviours and risks. It certainly gives food for thought.

Those countries at the top of the scale are Netherlands, Sweden, Denmark, Finland, Spain, Switzerland and Norway.

 

It very interesting and leaves lots of room for discussion.

[Inge]

That's great I'm on my way...

 

 

Me too.. although not a granny if circumstances were different very likely to be... those who know me know why... (search 'Message from my Son' if you want to know more)

 

I will once recovered from recent problems be returning to my setting for just this kind of thing.. chatting, playing, reading with no pressure as a volunteer .. and of course the things i love, reading and song time..

 

Inge

[Guest]

I think it also depends on the size of the nursery our rooms only have six children in each with two staff. One of the staff in the baby room is a mature lady and the children view her as a granny figure, its very homely in there.

Tyrell is down for a full time place in September he'll be fourteen months then, I am looking forward to him starting there because I know he'll be in a very nurturing place.

[Guest Wolfie]

Those countries at the top of the scale are Netherlands, Sweden, Denmark, Finland, Spain, Switzerland and Norway.

 

No surprise there then!

[Guest]

I would choose grandparents over nursery or any type of daycare anyday. The quality of interactions and special time is just so special.

Maybe I was very lucky but both mine were minded by grandparents and the time they spent in their pre school days with them hold wonderful memories even now - they are 30 and 22 years old.

Sunshine

[emmajess]

My mum looks after Rosa and Dylan who are 4 and 2 and has done part time since Rosa was 6 months old. Rosa started nursery school when she was 3 and so will Dylan and I think she has benefitted from the social side of nursery school, with lots of other children to play and get along with, but other than that my mum has been absolutely fantastic and I am so so lucky.

 

The language thing has definitely been noticeable - particularly as Rosa has some articulation difficulties and at the same time a really amazing vocabulary. Because my mum knows her so very well, she is able to understand what Rosa is saying, even when it is very obscure and out of the blue from her wild imagination!! This has been more difficult for the nursery and as her language isn't always as simple and straightforward as you would expect, they haven't been able to engage with her on anything like the same level as my lovely mum has. And she just loves them to pieces - now this is what i'm looking for in a reception teacher for Rosa in September!

[HappyMaz]

I will once recovered from recent problems be returning to my setting for just this kind of thing.. chatting, playing, reading with no pressure as a volunteer .. and of course the things i love, reading and song time..

And whoever the lucky group is will be very fortunate to have you, Inge. Suppose Maidenhead is a trip too far eh?

 

Now, where does JacquieL live then?

 

Maz

[Guest MaryEMac]

My grandaughter goes to nursery during term time but in the holidays she comes to me with her brother. It has been said by several people that she can talk,.. just like her Nana. I think that sharing between grandparents and nursery/ playgroup gives the best of both worlds.

I used to help my father on the land when my children were small and they spent time with my mum and they had the best time. Mum had time for the children there was no time constraints and if the housework didn't get done, there was always tomorrow. They baked, they picked fruit for pies and they played make-believe.

We have noticed at playgroup that those children who spend a lot of time with their grandparents have a wider vocabulary and that also seem more comfortable with other people.

 

Mary

[Guest Wolfie]

I'm beginning to feel like we should do our own mini-research project into all this, the thread is making very interesting reading!

[Lyanne]

The problem with such research is that it's frustrating to those of us who work but don't have the option of asking grandparents/other extended family to help.

 

My parents both still work (not that my dad could manage the children anyway - he's too stressful!), my sisters both worked when I had my younger son, now one of them has 2 young children of her own & lives the wrong side of town for me, my brother's not well enough to care for children. My father-in-law works, my mother-in-law looks after her daughter's children and works part time, my brother-in-law works fulltime, and my sister-in-law & her husband work.

 

So it came down to, if I were going back to work, we needed paid professional childcare.

 

(Of course, I now have to admit to choosing a childminder rather than a nursery to get the benefits of the family atmosphere It's had the drawbacks of less back-up. When he was a baby, I'd take time of without pay if she were on holiday in term time. Later, it meant using another childminder then, now it means my taking him to school & getting into work late. But it has the benfits that we as a family & the childminder as a family feel that we are connected over him - like second cousins, or something? Not really close family, but you care about all of each other.