Guest Posted October 2, 2008 Posted October 2, 2008 Just wondering how any of you nursery/pre-school owners are taking the large rise in the minimum wage. I am not saying that the staff don't deserve decent wages, but I am worried about how I am going to afford the increase along with the huge rise in food bills, utilities etc. Is anybody thinking of putting up there fees, and if so, by how much. It's difficult as I know parents are facing financial problems themselves. Would be interested to here your views. Quote
HappyMaz Posted October 2, 2008 Posted October 2, 2008 Oh do tell: what has it gone up to? Once I know how much, then I can answer your other questions... Maz Quote
HappyMaz Posted October 2, 2008 Posted October 2, 2008 (edited) For those like me who didn't know the minimum wage had gone up, here's the information I cut and pasted from the HM Revenue and Customs website:- There are three levels of minimum wage, and the rates from 1 October 2008 are: * £5.73 per hour for workers aged 22 years and older * A development rate of £4.77 per hour for workers aged 18-21 inclusive * £3.53 per hour for all workers under the age of 18, who are no longer of compulsory school age No need for me to increase fees to pay the staff extra because everyone is already paid above that level (except me, now that I think of it!). But it does raise another question in my head: should I really be giving a wage increase to maintain the differential between what I pay them and the minimum wage? What is everyone else doing? Maz Edited October 2, 2008 by HappyMaz Quote
Guest Posted October 2, 2008 Posted October 2, 2008 We are giving a wage increase to keep the differential above the new minimum wage but this is on two grounds. Firstly we do wage reviews in Sept/Oct to tie in with minimum wage increases rather than at other times of the year and secondly, because we needed to increase those staff who are paid just above minimum, which has the knock-on effect on the other staff. We had to look long and hard at what could be afforded, but our wonderful new treasurer worked it all out really well and even included a little more to allow for the high level of inflation which would be affecting our staff at home. That said we are lucky in that our rent and utilities are minimal. Quote
beth1 Posted October 2, 2008 Posted October 2, 2008 Oh yet another wage increase, wonder how many managers/owners know about the wage increase? I remeber last years incdent of walking in to an job find out a manager was not aware of it going up at the time. But has I am a member on here I was able to direct them of the mimimum wage increase, so we must be a good team then guys! Oh and dont forget that holiday entitlement increases next April! Beth Quote
Inge Posted October 2, 2008 Posted October 2, 2008 We too do wage reviews for October in line with minimum wage.. and everyone gets the same percentage increase.. so if it rises by 5% all wages increase by the same.. we have a cleaner on Minimum wage so it would be very tricky if she ended up earning too close a wage to our long qualified staff... As to holiday entitlement.. anyone know how to calculate extra needed from April to August , as our holiday year runs from September to August.... How inconvenient to change it in April! Inge Quote
korkycat Posted October 2, 2008 Posted October 2, 2008 We also do wage rises in October. April to August is half the year so entitlement will be half old half new? We only operate in school terms so holiday pay is extra rather than paid time off. Much easier to work out! Sorry can't help you more. korkycat Quote
lynned55 Posted October 2, 2008 Posted October 2, 2008 All our staff are paid well above minimum wage and we set our wages in April anyway. Our holiday entitlement is also paid as extra weeks so easy to work out (on a pro rata basis of course) Quote
Buttercup Posted October 2, 2008 Posted October 2, 2008 (edited) i have a document that pata sent about holidays it explains it really clearly. I will get hubby to download it when kids have finished on computer. angela sorry cannot find document definatly got it at playgroup will get tommorrow and load it on Edited October 2, 2008 by angelaw Quote
Masha Posted October 2, 2008 Posted October 2, 2008 Hi I'd love to say all our staff are paid above the minimum wage, but unfortunately not. Everyone gets an increase in September, when fees go up We have a formula where people get the minimum wage plus extra pay per hour for qualifications, job role etc, so when the minimum wage increased this month by 21p (?) everyone's pay increased by that amount. It doesn't sound like much but it's an extra £12,000 a year in salaries for us. As for holidays, we already have the 28 days, so I'm afraid I can't help there Quote
Deb Posted October 2, 2008 Posted October 2, 2008 Inge I have a spreadsheet to work out everyone's pay over the year - I just made two, one for 25 weeks up to April and one for 12 weeks after with a different formula for the holiday pay - then added the 2 totals up and divided by 12 months. Has anybody else only got 37 weeks this school year? I only hope it's right! Everybody got a 3.8 per cent pay rise from September. We haven't always kept the differential over the years but have had to lately as the minimum wage was nearly catching up with the deputy. The ridculous thing is that we have a level 4 qualified member of staff on the minimum wage! Quote
Buttercup Posted October 3, 2008 Posted October 3, 2008 I hope this works but attached is a document from pata about holidays and the changes angela holidays_003.bmp holidays_004.bmp Quote
HappyMaz Posted October 3, 2008 Posted October 3, 2008 I hope this works but attached is a document from pata about holidays and the changes Thank you for this: I have printed them out to read them more easily! Quote
Inge Posted October 3, 2008 Posted October 3, 2008 Inge I have a spreadsheet to work out everyone's pay over the year - I just made two, one for 25 weeks up to April and one for 12 weeks after with a different formula for the holiday pay - then added the 2 totals up and divided by 12 months. Has anybody else only got 37 weeks this school year? Thanks will give it a go.. and we have 38 week year as usual... Inge Quote
Guest Posted October 6, 2008 Posted October 6, 2008 If you look at the holiday entitlment going up to 24 days as from next April, thats an awful lot of extra days to cover in terms of staff cover:ratio to children. In my case you are talking cover an extra 12 staff x 4 days = 48 days @ 5.73 x 7.5 hours (just say min wage but many are on much more) = £2062 extra I have to find each year. I was considering not putting up my parents fees but with the large raise in min wages and this extra £2062 on top, that means an extra £7000 I have to find on top just for wages let alone all the other bills that are increasing. Is it worth having your own business these days. Would be better off being employed. Quote
Lucy P Posted October 6, 2008 Posted October 6, 2008 I hope this works but attached is a document from pata about holidays and the changes angela If you look at the holiday entitlment going up to 24 days as from next April, thats an awful lot of extra days to cover in terms of staff cover:ratio to children. In my case you are talking cover an extra 12 staff x 4 days = 48 days @ 5.73 x 7.5 hours (just say min wage but many are on much more) = £2062 extra I have to find each year. I was considering not putting up my parents fees but with the large raise in min wages and this extra £2062 on top, that means an extra £7000 I have to find on top just for wages let alone all the other bills that are increasing. Is it worth having your own business these days. Would be better off being employed. Can i just clarify that the holiday entitlement will be increasing to 28 days from next April, i think the documents attached refer to the increases that happened last year. Quote
Guest Posted October 6, 2008 Posted October 6, 2008 We too do wage reviews for October in line with minimum wage.. and everyone gets the same percentage increase.. so if it rises by 5% all wages increase by the same.. we have a cleaner on Minimum wage so it would be very tricky if she ended up earning too close a wage to our long qualified staff... As to holiday entitlement.. anyone know how to calculate extra needed from April to August , as our holiday year runs from September to August.... How inconvenient to change it in April! Inge Hi. There is a useful tool for working out holiday entitlement on the businesslink website. Just answer a few questions online and it works it out for you. Also depends on whether you work term time only because holiday entitlement should be pro rata based on the average worked over a full year. I had to do this and I have the formula written down if you want it. Quote
Cait Posted October 6, 2008 Posted October 6, 2008 From Direct Gov website The basics of holiday rights There is a minimum right to paid holiday, but your employer may offer more than this. The main things you should know about holiday rights are: * you are entitled to a minimum of 4.8 weeks (from 1 October 2007) * the entitlement will increase again to 5.6 weeks from 1 April 2009 * those working part-time are entitled to the same level of holiday pro rata (so 4.8 then 5.6 times your usual working week) * you start building up holiday as soon as you start work * your employer can control when you take your holiday * you get paid your normal pay for your holiday * when you finish a job, you get paid for any holiday you’ve not taken * bank and public holidays in Britain and Northern Ireland can be included in your minimum entitlement Quote
Inge Posted October 6, 2008 Posted October 6, 2008 We have now sorted the holiday bit.. as suggested divided year into months and gave the increase due for the extra months...which all will get in August when we are closed .. we have set weeks when we are paid holiday pay each year. Committee decided when all minimum requirement started to give us the full entitlement despite being only open 38 weeks.. so at least that is one thing we don't have to work out... Thanks for your help Inge Quote
lynned55 Posted October 6, 2008 Posted October 6, 2008 Also depends on whether you work term time only because holiday entitlement should be pro rata based on the average worked over a full year. I had to do this and I have the formula written down if you want it. fordi Would love the formula if you dont mind, cant quite get my head around how to work this out. Quote
Guest Posted October 6, 2008 Posted October 6, 2008 Also depends on whether you work term time only because holiday entitlement should be pro rata based on the average worked over a full year. I had to do this and I have the formula written down if you want it. fordi Would love the formula if you dont mind, cant quite get my head around how to work this out. I'd love to see the formula for this - at the moment it has become a huge area for discussion/debate and has caused sooo much stress to my staff . .help! Quote
Bliss Posted October 13, 2008 Posted October 13, 2008 We also review wages in October, and increase due to minimum wage. We also look at individual staff and try to show our appreciation for any extra commitment by reflecting this in their wages - even if it is only 5p! However, we have heard "through the grapevine" that a member of staff who took responsibility for a particular area of the curriculum and practice, has said she no longer wishes to do it. Do we reduce her wage? Do we try to see if we can support her to continue? Do we have to write a letter to each staff member, saying what and why they have an increase? Do not feel able to do anything yet, as she has not spoken to managers about it. If staff agree to take on extra commitments, eg Equality and Inclusion Co-Ordinator, do we offer a fixed increase to go with it? But then what if they do not continue/do nothing to introduce it into the practice? We prefer to let them volunteer for particular roles, then in October reward them - but this seems to be going wrong if they give up in November! Any advice? Quote
Inge Posted October 13, 2008 Posted October 13, 2008 we send a letter every year saying what the pay review was and how it is made up, how it may affect the individual. These are individual to the person so can say like added responsibility or and increased because of this. You could also if you wish state that it is an enhancement which is conditional to them completing the required job. Our way is rather than an increase in pay, at end of every year we look at the staff and any extras they have taken on and offer a bonus scheme, this can be related to performance/responsibility, or in our case as everyone has extra responsibility/roles then it is a set rate of weeks pay or if we can afford it two. we find the committee review this also during the year and have received a bonus during the year if appropriate.. they usually look at Christmas time and summer holidays.. if we can afford it. This is not unusual scheme, a performance related bonus is often used by companies and is individual to each employee. Inge Quote
HappyMaz Posted October 13, 2008 Posted October 13, 2008 We prefer to let them volunteer for particular roles, then in October reward them - but this seems to be going wrong if they give up in November!Any advice? Why not put in an extra bit on the staff member's payslip such as "SENCo Enhancement" and pay a set amount each month? Then it is clear that the extra amount of money is in recognition of the extra responsibility, for as long as she is carrying out that duty. If she relinquishes the responsibility, then she also relinquishes the enhancement payment and this can be given to whoever takes it over. Do you think it might work? Maz Quote
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