Guest Posted June 2, 2008 Posted June 2, 2008 Hi there I found this website after googling for 'eyfs'. I'm not a practioner - I'm actually a professional web developer however my wife works at the local pre-school and is currently studying towards her NVQ level 3 in early years. I've spoken with her about her job and what the other members of staff have to do and it appears to me that a fair amount of time is taken up in planning to meet the current curriculum and there seems to be a fair bit of change coming with EYFS in september. I've done some reading of the official EYFS curriculum and tbh, it left me a little confused I'm looking to develop a website to help my wife and the rest of the staff organise their planning. I have some pretty grand ideas but from a technical point of view it's nothing overly complicated - I just don't have the understanding of EYFS planning and observations (of the children) etc I need to be able to get on and build it! My wife has so far been excluded from the EYFS training (long story short they've recently moved from being a charity based group to being part of the LEA school and this has delayed a lot of staff training etc). I'm looking for some reasources that can help me to understand what is required when planning. In an ideal world I'd love a few people to offer to give me some one-to-one advice (nothing time consuming as I appreciate you're all very busy). I've tried asking my wife's colleauges but with the move to the school they're up to their necks with paperwork and mvoing toys LOL If anyone can point me in the right direction or offer me some advice it would be very much appreciated. Please note, I'm not trying to develop a copy of this site - from what I've seen this site is a forum based system where users can share ideas - the site I'm looking to develop will be very different although I'm not too keen to share these ideas at this stage until I've determined if it will actually work...which brings me back to needing help from you guys Thanks for your time. Regards Wayne
Guest Posted June 2, 2008 Posted June 2, 2008 Welcome to the forum. There will be lots of people along to offer you ideas and information im sure. Have you looked in the resource library, there will prob be some planning and observation template and other things on EYFS which may give you something to work with. If you click on resources tab at left hand side then go into resources library there will be lots for you to look at there. Good luck with your task Paula
JacquieL Posted June 2, 2008 Posted June 2, 2008 I don't really know how to help as I can't really imagine how such a site will work- sorry to sound negative- perhaps just a bit more information might help. Although everyone follows EYFS every setting is different and so is every child, and observations and planning are very closely linked and very individual to a cohort and a setting. I don't think that there is a one size fits all system. Welcome, and you have made an interesting first post.
Sue R Posted June 2, 2008 Posted June 2, 2008 Hello and welcome. Have you looked at the cdrom that comes with the EYFS? It's fairly helpful with planning, but as all children differ I wouldn't really think a planning website would be that much help, tbh. After all, the EYFS is all about following the children's lead and the one thing Babies and Toddlers DON'T need is rigid planning! Neither do Pre-school, either! Perhaps I've just misunderstood your aims? Please get back if you feel the need to clarify. Sue
Inge Posted June 2, 2008 Posted June 2, 2008 really the only people who can help with what you want are the people who will be using it.. Planning is so very individual and setting, child, staff etc. And as SueR said it is based on the child, is flexible changes by the minute sometimes and often cannot be done in advance, in our case anyway written retrospectively. Sorry, I may be in the minority here but it also worries me a bit that you have come to a forum for help which freely shares ideas but you seem reluctant to completely share yours. I assume any planning formats etc etc you use from here you will attribute it to the appropriate person. Inge
Sue R Posted June 2, 2008 Posted June 2, 2008 That's well said, Inge We do share freely here, and I would hope Inge's concerns would be reflected if your site gets up and running. Please do, however, consider the concerns that the children come first..... second, third and everywhere else!!
Guest Posted June 3, 2008 Posted June 3, 2008 I don't really know how to help as I can't really imagine how such a site will work- sorry to sound negative- perhaps just a bit more information might help. Although everyone follows EYFS every setting is different and so is every child, and observations and planning are very closely linked and very individual to a cohort and a setting. I don't think that there is a one size fits all system. Welcome, and you have made an interesting first post. Hi there Thanks for all the feedback. You may be right, perhaps what I'm trying to do isn't appropriate??? I've had a look at the planning section on this site and there are activities (such as 'vets roleplay') - how would these activities be used in the context that you mentioned where every child is different etc - isn't this a template activity?...or are these pre-EYFS in september and so won't be applicable then? Maybe I've got the wrong end of the stick? Regards Wayne
Guest Posted June 3, 2008 Posted June 3, 2008 I've been thinking....maybe what I need would be for you guys to walk me through how you prepare an activity? This way I can get a feel for the process and then determine if it's appropriate for what I'm considering. I don't know how much is involved in this so if I'm asking to much, please let me know. Alternatively, if anyone has a link to a site or maybe even another thread that explains (in laymens terms) HOW to plan an activity? Regards Wayne
Guest Posted June 3, 2008 Posted June 3, 2008 really the only people who can help with what you want are the people who will be using it.. Planning is so very individual and setting, child, staff etc. And as SueR said it is based on the child, is flexible changes by the minute sometimes and often cannot be done in advance, in our case anyway written retrospectively. Sorry, I may be in the minority here but it also worries me a bit that you have come to a forum for help which freely shares ideas but you seem reluctant to completely share yours. I assume any planning formats etc etc you use from here you will attribute it to the appropriate person. Inge Hi Inge Sorry, I should have replied to your post first as you raise some very valid points. What I'm planning will be used soley by the pre-school that my wife works for however there is no reason once they've 'tested' that it works that it couldn't be rolled out to allow use by anyone. I don't plan on using any material from this site or submitted by anyone on here. If this changed I would of course seek approval from the owner of any material - this goes without saying as far as I'm concerned. I'm protective of my 'idea' because I think that in time I may be able to develop it into a business model and I don't want to plant the seed of an idea into someone elses mind when I've come up with what I have discovered is a unique idea (I've spent ages looking and haven't found anyone doing what I'm considering) - I don't mean to sound secretive and would gladly share my ideas with anyone but I need to get a firm understanding of who I'm sharing the idea with in the same way that you are trying to gain an understanding of me and why I'm asking for information My aim of writting on here was to get a very high-level understanding to determine if the idea was feasible. If it was feasible then my next step would be to ask for people's help in focusing the whole thing and getting something working - this would be done on a private level rather than publicly on a forum as it would no longer be a 'public interest' topic. Any help/advice received would basically be exchanged for a share/stake in the site and any potential business that developed out of it. My sole intention here is to make something that will make my wife (and her colleagues) lives easier. Because I'm a developer though I see things in component-based ways and it seems to me that if something can be built to help 1 pre-school, why couldn't it be used by more than 1. If you think about it like this, then that almost suggests that it could become bigger and anything big on the web generates a revenue in some way (either by charging directly or by associate in the way this site runs or by other means such as sponsorship, advertising etc - such as Facebook)...that's how I came to the opinion that it could eventually become a busiess - it's not the basis for me doing it though. I hope this has helped and not confused the matter too much as I really was hoping to keep this very high-level until I was sure and only then get into detail with a few select people who possibly wanted to be involved. Regards Wayne
Rea Posted June 3, 2008 Posted June 3, 2008 Hi dotnetter, to prepare an activity you have to first know why you're preparing it. What do you want the children to learn or experience? Why have you chosen the activity? Have you observed the children have shown a particular interest in something and you are following their lead or are you introducing something new to their play? There are a whole range of reasons something might be planned and once you know what and why then you can look at how. It might be that the what and why will be best suited to a role play activity or something in the sand tray or a painting activity. It really is an individual thing and based on the practitioners experience and their knowledge of the children.
Guest Posted June 3, 2008 Posted June 3, 2008 Hi dotnetter, to prepare an activity you have to first know why you're preparing it. What do you want the children to learn or experience? Why have you chosen the activity? Have you observed the children have shown a particular interest in something and you are following their lead or are you introducing something new to their play?There are a whole range of reasons something might be planned and once you know what and why then you can look at how. It might be that the what and why will be best suited to a role play activity or something in the sand tray or a painting activity. It really is an individual thing and based on the practitioners experience and their knowledge of the children. Hi Rea Thanks for the advice. So if I'm understanding correctly (and having read some of the EYFS guidance stuff on the official site and spoken with my wife and her limited understanding) it's about planning an activty around the childs interests. So as an example if the children liked pirates then you might create an activity using a pirate theme but in way that covers aspects of the EYFS 'curriculum'? Wayne
louby loo Posted June 3, 2008 Posted June 3, 2008 Maybe your wife has access to - Children's Care. Learning and Development, by Penny Tassoni, Kath Bulman and Kate Beith.....this is the NVQ L3 handbook and pgs 353- 536 this give a few guidelines .. .................. but you can see from that we all need to 'adapt' to suit our [children and settings] individual needs.. sorry not 'one size fits all' and that's why we're a 'caring sharing bunch'!!!!!!!!!! otherwise we'd all be rich selling the magic formula xx
Guest Posted June 3, 2008 Posted June 3, 2008 Hi - I agree with Rea - I have only been qualified for around 4 years and every activity plan I have every created in 4 years taking into account weekly plans and weekly focused activity plans have never ever been the same - each year different group of children different needs - one child responds to this activity, the other will need it focused in a different area - one size does not fit all - I really don't know how you are going to move forward with your ideas - though the EYFS on the web has a very good explanation of planning - Good luck with your investigations Dot
Guest Posted June 3, 2008 Posted June 3, 2008 Maybe your wife has access to - Children's Care. Learning and Development, by Penny Tassoni, Kath Bulman and Kate Beith.....this is the NVQ L3 handbook and pgs 353- 536 this give a few guidelines .................... but you can see from that we all need to 'adapt' to suit our [children and settings] individual needs.. sorry not 'one size fits all' and that's why we're a 'caring sharing bunch'!!!!!!!!!! otherwise we'd all be rich selling the magic formula xx She's currently doing her NVQ3 so I'll take a look. You are all a caring sharing bunch, however someone down the line is making money from your caring sharingness - I had to pay £20 to access the site and what I got access to was basically posts that you buys had submitted for free(?)...and even if you get access to the site for free via your local LEA, they're still no doubt having to pay something for the privalledge - ironically if it wasn't for you guys, this site (and any site for that matter) wouldn't be in business as it's generally the users of sites these days that provide the content (a good case in point, what would facebook be if nobody 'poked' anyone or left wall posts?). But hey, I'm not having a dig at this site as it's jsut the way of the world. When something gets too big to be done for free then a charge has to be applied to pay for the maintenance and hosting of the site. This leads to a more professional level of product which means more users which ends up producing more money coming in which then turns into not only paying for the site but also a profit. I think this site is great and I think you guys are great for sharing your ideas with each other - I'm not here to steal a 'magic formula' and go off and make my millions LOL - if only it were that easy everyone would be doing it! - I'm just trying to get a basic idea off the ground and because it's in an area I don't fully understand I have to research it - and that's all I'm trying to do. I look forward to the time when I've determined that I can go ahead with my plans as when and if I do, I'm hopefull that it will help not only my wife but you guys more than it will help me - as I've said, I'm not in this to make a business, but that's the natural course it COULD take if it proves to be sucessfull - exactly in the way this site has. On a side note, Im generally a nice bloke (I like to think) and I really hope I'm not giving the wrong impression here. Regards Wayne
Marion Posted June 3, 2008 Posted June 3, 2008 There are a number of websites which already offer planning you may want to look at http://www.hamilton-trust.org.uk/index.asp?id=1 http://www.clickteaching.com/ http://www.underfives.co.uk/ I'm not sure how this type of planning will fit in with the whole ethos of "personalised learning" as it will be almost impossible to match a child's learning needs to a lesson plan downloaded from a website. I think you may also have got the wrong impression of why most of us use this forum. Yes we do share resources but for me it's most important role is providing a place to "meet" with like minded individuals and talk about a variety of topics and issues not all educational. I feel many of us have become "virtual" friends and we would be lost without Steve's hard work.
Steve Posted June 3, 2008 Posted June 3, 2008 Hi Wayne - Welcome to the Forum and thanks for posting. I am the founder of the FSF (the organisation to whom you paid £20), and am ultimately responsible for the development and maintenance of the features and resources of the FSF, having set the site up in 2003. I think the point that others were making regarding your original post was that as a community they 'pool' the resources and experience they build up over many years, and possibly your first post implied that you were really just asking for a set of template planning processes that you could take and use on a commercial product, or possibly even that what they were doing was basically very simple and could be automated without too much trouble. I think what they have been trying to explain is that actually the planning they undertake regularly is the most intricate part of the job that they do - child focussed and requiring in depth knowledge and experience that takes years to really absorb. A planning activity will require knowledge of an individual child's abilities across a number of different areas of learning, and both practical and theoretical knowledge of how to draw out their potential. This is why it can't easily be systematized and automated, and why it probably shouldn't be. You'll have read the passion and commitment in the conversations that fill this community, and therefore will be aware of what a special vocation your wife has entered. You and she are welcome to make use of the FSF and join in with that passion if you wish - however, if you feel that you've misunderstood the nature of the site I will be happy to refund your subscription payment.
Guest Posted June 3, 2008 Posted June 3, 2008 Hi Wayne - Welcome to the Forum and thanks for posting. I am the founder of the FSF (the organisation to whom you paid £20), and am ultimately responsible for the development and maintenance of the features and resources of the FSF, having set the site up in 2003. I think the point that others were making regarding your original post was that as a community they 'pool' the resources and experience they build up over many years, and possibly your first post implied that you were really just asking for a set of template planning processes that you could take and use on a commercial product, or possibly even that what they were doing was basically very simple and could be automated without too much trouble. I think what they have been trying to explain is that actually the planning they undertake regularly is the most intricate part of the job that they do - child focussed and requiring in depth knowledge and experience that takes years to really absorb. A planning activity will require knowledge of an individual child's abilities across a number of different areas of learning, and both practical and theoretical knowledge of how to draw out their potential. This is why it can't easily be systematized and automated, and why it probably shouldn't be. You'll have read the passion and commitment in the conversations that fill this community, and therefore will be aware of what a special vocation your wife has entered. You and she are welcome to make use of the FSF and join in with that passion if you wish - however, if you feel that you've misunderstood the nature of the site I will be happy to refund your subscription payment. Hi Steve and thanks for taking the time to reply personally. I don't think I've interprested the site wrongly, I was just trying to put into perspective what people have been posting about 'sharing' etc in terms of the bigger picture. I don't want a refund (although the offer is appreciated) - I knew what I was signing up for and I didn't intend for my comments to sound as though I was moaning about having to pay, I was just again putting into context the 'sharing' aspect. I very much appreciate that the value of the site is in the community it provides and that the planning and resources are more in addition to this rather than the actual core. I will take a look at the websites previously mentioned (I've already seen the underfives site). I've only been a member of the site for a day and I feel as though I may have put a few backs up already. I hope everyone believes me when I say this wasn't my intention - perhaps I could have phrased things differently or perhaps not mentioned certain things at all (I do feel as though the original post seems to have been lost a little). Steve, I wish you all the best with your site - judging by the responses from most you've ertainly done an excellent job and I don't mean to take anything away from that. If anyone does have any concerns with anything I've written then please ask - I'm sure I can settle any misunderstandings as I am the member of many forums and I would like to eventually become a valued member of this one. Wayne
Guest Posted June 3, 2008 Posted June 3, 2008 Just a quick question regarding resources. I'm still a little confused - how are the planning resources to be used if everything has to be customised to individuals? As I previously menioned, the Vets Roleplay mentioned in the Resources > Planning > Role Play section for example? Is this simply an 'idea' for an activity that would need to be customised? If so then it's in keeping with what my current thinking is. Regards Wayne
Guest Posted June 3, 2008 Posted June 3, 2008 There are a number of websites which already offer planning you may want to look athttp://www.hamilton-trust.org.uk/index.asp?id=1 http://www.clickteaching.com/ http://www.underfives.co.uk/ I'm not sure how this type of planning will fit in with the whole ethos of "personalised learning" as it will be almost impossible to match a child's learning needs to a lesson plan downloaded from a website. I think you may also have got the wrong impression of why most of us use this forum. Yes we do share resources but for me it's most important role is providing a place to "meet" with like minded individuals and talk about a variety of topics and issues not all educational. I feel many of us have become "virtual" friends and we would be lost without Steve's hard work. Hi Marion Thanks for the links. I've taken a look and on the surface at least it looks as though all of the above require some type of payment - either a one-off payment or a single purchase of a specific product...have I got that right? The Hamilton site is very well designed and presented although I still think having seen these sites that my idea is still 'unique' and brings something else to the table (apart from also hopefully being free to use). I really would love to be in a position to share more - hopefully in the near future I will be! Regards Wayne
Marion Posted June 3, 2008 Posted June 3, 2008 Each child would access a role play area at their own level by observing the child the practitioner can plan for the child's educational needs. The other point to consider is that because an adult has set up a "vet's" role play area it doesn't mean that children will use it as a "vets" they may have their own agenda and use the resources for completely different purposes. I remember my NN setting up a "hospital" and the children used the bandages to become "mummies" and role played Scooby Doo
Guest Posted June 3, 2008 Posted June 3, 2008 I remember my NN setting up a "hospital" and the children used the bandages to become "mummies" and role played Scooby Doo lol - that's what's brilliant about kids
Guest Posted June 4, 2008 Posted June 4, 2008 Steve. I would just like to say it was the best £20 I have ever spent
Rea Posted June 4, 2008 Posted June 4, 2008 But even better when Birmingham paid for me You know what I mean
Steve Posted June 4, 2008 Posted June 4, 2008 lol - of course Rea. I don't mind paying for a Mars bar at the newsagents, but if someone else paid for me I'd be even happier!
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