Pay Rates For Level 5/6

[Marion]

But should there be differentials when we are all interdependent on each other?

[Jester]

I've read all this with great interest as although I am only in the first year of my Foundation Degree (and should be writing an assignement at the moment), already a favourite discussion amongst my class is what we will do at the end.

 

It's really sad, but most of us will be lost from the early years sector - if we continue we will be able to choose between EYPS or PGCE. ( I attend a University which offers both- on enrollment we were given a sheet plotting the path's to each)

PGCE is the favoured option - even the course tutor's push this, as teachers are the main role models they use constantly and talk favourably about the course.

 

Not one person on my course wants to do EYPS.

 

I love early years with a passion - but I will have to choose QTS. Sorry....

( I have to admit I don't want to work 8am - 6pm in a childrens centre or a nursery . 48 weeks of the year and then have take lots home, for not a lot). Will be sad to leave my pre-school, but for my own young families well being will have to do it.

 

 

I couldnt agree more and it is a sad fact.

 

I went and did a degree so that I would be able to go into teaching to further my career and to earn more. In my first job as a TA 9 years ago now I was paid £4995 a year for 25 hours a week and I had to do another job as well as this so I could pay the rent! Now luckily I do think payscales have got a heck of a lot better esp in schools even so I still feel that in order gain anymore recognition I must either gain QTS or EYPS which at present isn't possible due to the fact I do not have GCSE maths.

 

I am stuck in limbo at the moment with this but EVERYONE- including a colleague who is looking to do EYPS has advised me to do QTS.

[HappyMaz]

But should there be differentials when we are all interdependent on each other?

Indeed - are there differentials between teachers' pay in the various key stages? Presumably the contributor to the TES thread thinks there should be if s/he thinks secondar teachers should get paid more than their primary colleagues. And if there are to be differentials, who decides what they are and how much extra each person gets than the person 'below' them? As I said before, this is such a big issue that my head may just explode if I think about it for too long!

 

Maz

[Marion]

No there are no differentials between different keys stages pay scales depend upon experience and responsibility. There are however more opportunities in secondary schools to progress than in most primaries.

[Guest]

Hi Everyone

 

Wow, really sparked something heh! I'm glad because it really is an area that needs to be addressed, I wish the CWDC would read this forum. If, when I graduate from my PGCE for the Early Years Professional Status - yes it is a PGCE - if I am not offered at least 25K I will change careers again. This is the minimum worth. Controversial it may be, but introspect deeply and tell me that graduates dedicated to providing a foundation of young people prepared for a successful education and place in society is not worth at least that much? I could use my value and skills in an entrepreneurial sense to build a better salary for myself in this day and age, the CWDC and the government need to recognise that if they get it right at the foundation stage they can transform education! Get it right at the start and so many problems can be prevented.

 

Rainbowbrite xxx

[Guest]

What can I say I have just been offered a joint supervisory role with the current deputy who does not want full responsibility and do you want to know what I will be offered for taking on this position, wait for it £6.55 and yes I know lots of out of hours work. I must be stupid.

 

I work at a very small rural pre-school but it is my stepping stone, I am on the long EYPS due to qualify in May. I have been asked to take on supervisory role in September with full qualification with another pay rise if I'm lucky £7.50!!!

 

However I look at all the benefits I have managed to start all sorts of things up with no problems newsletters, Somerset Total Communications, getting professionals in, Forest School a Baby Group and yes maybe they are lucky I have done this but would I have had the confidence to do this at another setting where I did not feel comfortable. I have one child at pre-school (maybe this is not a plus!) and another at the primary school which we are linked to.

 

I know the pay is rubbish but once I have built up enough experience and confidence and my children are both happily settled into school, my youngest will start in September then I can start looking for a more well paid position.

[Guest]

Sorry only read first page of thread, in response I already know somebody who has just gained EYPS who will be starting a PGCE in September as she has realised that pay will never achieve NQT status.

 

This is just not right I fully agree but where is the money going to come from?

[HappyMaz]

If, when I graduate from my PGCE for the Early Years Professional Status - yes it is a PGCE - if I am not offered at least 25K I will change careers again.

Go for it, Rainbowrite - but what a shame for the early years sector to lose you.

 

As for me, I know that if I earned even a third of that I'd be grateful (am in my first year of ownership of my nursery and earn less now than I did when I was an employee). Can't see that changing because I have a degree and EYP status...

 

That's not to say that your logic isn't sound: we should be valuing the work we do as you outline, but where is the money coming from?

 

And how do you know the CWDC don't read the forum?

 

Maz

[Guest]

Go for it, Rainbowrite - but what a shame for the early years sector to lose you.

 

As for me, I know that if I earned even a third of that I'd be grateful (am in my first year of ownership of my nursery and earn less now than I did when I was an employee). Can't see that changing because I have a degree and EYP status...

 

That's not to say that your logic isn't sound: we should be valuing the work we do as you outline, but where is the money coming from?

 

And how do you know the CWDC don't read the forum?

 

Maz

 

 

And how do you know the CWDC won't move the goalposts?

 

Peggy

[HappyMaz]

And how do you know the CWDC won't move the goalposts?

 

Peggy

I think we can take it that they probably will Peggy! If nothing else, we live in very interesting times.

 

Maz

[Guest]

This is a really interesting topic and I'm glad I stumbled across it. As you all know I am in the final year (well 5 months) of my FD and we asked one of our tutors what the point of it was, you know when you're having one of those 'can't take it anymore days'? Our tutor told us there wasn't really any point because the pay and status wouldn't necessarily be better, although she did say it would be beneficial to us in our day to day practice. There have been many thought from colleagues on the course, such as 'why am I bothering?' and it seems that now we have started, we might as well finish it, but the excitement of becoming more qualified and the 'prospects' we thought this would offer is slowly diminishing.

 

So far, we have lost almost half of a very large group because some practitioners don't see how they will be able to progress with the FD. I know it's pretty much a starting block for other things such as EYPS and teaching but most feel that we will just be glorified Nursery Nurses with extra reponsibilities, for the same money.

 

It appears that some colleagues are going to call it a day once the FD is completed and although I am not against their decision, it seems a bit mad to me to not progress with it, particularly when considering the general view of others on the course. Not one of us is intending to go on to do EYPS, the main focus tends to be on teaching which is something I will be looking into if I am succesful with my studies so far. I also need to take a break and wait until my children are settled (or even born in the case of the youngest one!) before I can contemplate further study. I am fed up of earning a rubbish salary for a job I love doing, and to be honest, I don't see why I should. I know that others will feel the same.

 

Last week, our tutor told us that the CWDC gets millions of pounds for advertising EYPS, this is evident in the full page, coloured ads you see in Nursery World, but surely this money would be better spent contributing to paying people a better rate, rather than going all out to recruit them only for them to flounder, before leaving the profession altogether because of money issues.

Edited January 22, 2008 by Clare

[Annie-pops]

It seems to be a common thread with any kind of social policy doesn't it. Groups of people sit around and write down lots of fabulous ideas, but then don't actually back it with the resources to make it successfull.

[HappyMaz]

It seems to be a common thread with any kind of social policy doesn't it. Groups of people sit around and write down lots of fabulous ideas, but then don't actually back it with the resources to make it successfull.

Careful, Annie-pops: with thinking like that you could just take over the world!

 

Maz

[HappyMaz]

Has anyone seen the "Where do I go from here?" feature in this week's nursery world (p26)?

 

Apparently, once the lady in question has done her EYPS she can expect "Salary range: Leading practice in a daycare centre from £27,400 (varying according to role/setting)".

 

So I'd better start saving up - how on earth will I afford to pay myself that much?

 

Maz

 

PS: what do you suppose they mean by 'daycare centre' - do you think my village pre-school in a rented hall with 26 children on role counts??

[Inge]

That would put all settings like ours on the closure list.... its almost all our income for the full year, in fact with that and rent we would be in deficit before we started. And that is a good one, a low numbers year would not bear thinking about.

 

Inge

[HappyMaz]

That would put all settings like ours on the closure list.... its almost all our income for the full year, in fact with that and rent we would be in deficit before we started. And that is a good one, a low numbers year would not bear thinking about.

 

Inge

Seriously, this would close my group too (roughly equivalent to my entire salary bill for last year). I didn't decide to do the degree and EYPS for the raise in salary (and I think the salary given probably wasn't for someone managing a rural pre-school with less than thirty children on roll!). If I was still Supervisor there's no doubt I would have done it, because I do think it will benefit my group and it is good for my own personal development. However, now that I'm the owner, I'm not sure that I would be able to retain a member of staff once she had gained EYP status - unless she was doing it for similar reasons to me and wasn't motivated by salary.

 

Of course if I decided to have a 1:13 adult to child ratio I would be able to afford to pay a more realistic salary...

 

Or am I starting to go round in circles again?

 

Maz

[hali]

lets be homest the setings we are in - there is no hope and as Maz says thats not why we are doing it!!!

[Guest]

Another reason for 'owners' to do the degree is that if they don't they would then have to employ someone with a degree, to be in place by 2010 or is it 2015.

 

Peggy

[HappyMaz]

Another reason for 'owners' to do the degree is that if they don't they would then have to employ someone with a degree, to be in place by 2010 or is it 2015.

 

Peggy

For a group like mine Peggy it just wouldn't make economic sense. 2010 is the deadline for Children's Centres to have an EYP in post, I think, followed by those full day care groups later. I am technically full day care because I do three lunch clubs and an extended afternoon session. These sessions generate no real income because the numbers are so low. So if I were to be forced to employ an EYP I'd simply drop those extra sessions and go back to offering sessional care.

 

Maz

[Guest]

For a group like mine Peggy it just wouldn't make economic sense. 2010 is the deadline for Children's Centres to have an EYP in post, I think, followed by those full day care groups later. I am technically full day care because I do three lunch clubs and an extended afternoon session. These sessions generate no real income because the numbers are so low. So if I were to be forced to employ an EYP I'd simply drop those extra sessions and go back to offering sessional care.

 

Maz

 

 

Which defeats the governments goals of increasing preschool provision with highly qualified (degree level) staff.

 

Peggy

[Andreamay]

what they will do then though is retract government funding for settings without eyps and all the pre-schools as we knew them will close leaving only childrens centres and day nurseries and pre-schools who have now become a 'day' care whcih is what they have wanted to do all along because they say that is WHAT parents want!!!!