Eyfs

[Guest]

Hi

I hope someone can help. I have been reading the EYFS today, been through CD rom, etc.... Now i'm more confused than ever. Basically we take children from the age of 2, so they are with us for 2 and a half / 3 years. We have 32 new 2 year olds starting with us during september and i'm not sure what to do about their observations and record keping, do i cross reference to the birth to 3 or try and come up with something for the EYFS, trouble is i will have to alter them come sept 08 if i use the birth to 3. Just not sure what to put in place if i use the EYFS. Our training is not coming out till march next year. What is every body else doing?

[belle06]

Hi

I am not using the EYFS until it comes into force which will give myself and my staff opportunity to attend the training hopefully will then have a better understanding Ofsted are still inspecting on the old standards and BTT3M until then as well.

[HappyMaz]

I'm sure I've said this somewhere else on here, but I'm just starting an observation tracking system (Mrs Ofsted didn't think our existing system was good enough), so I'm going to start off with a document which has all the EYFS stepping stones/early learning goals and space for dates of observations to be put in. I'm hoping this will highlight when children meet the stepping stones, as well as highlight where observations are lacking.

 

I know that people are saying that since the EYFS doesn't come in until next September we should leave it until later, but I took the view that this system was going to take a lot of work to implement, and I didn't want to do it all again in a year.

 

We take children from 2 and a half, so my tracker lists the stepping stones for 16-26 months so there should be a healthy overlap to allow for the different stages of development.

 

I have resisted implementing this kind of thing (have a natural dislike for ticklists showing what children can and can't do), and have a clear message on the front of the tracker explaining what it is for and how it is to be used. I've warned the staff that using the tracker as a 'tick list' to highlight what children can't do will be grounds for instant dismissal.

 

Maz

[Running Bunny]

I think the general consensus (sp?) is that if you have recently had an Ofsted inspection and are not likely to be inspected again before September 2008, it is okay and makes logical sense to start implementing new EYFS systems.

 

I'm one of those that keeps reminding people that it doesn't come into force til next year as I'm concerned that people are going to race ahead and implement new things before the training takes place and put their own systems in place which may conflict with LA guidance.

 

I've been looking at it too whilst we are quiet at work and there seems to be an awful lot of paperwork to support observations, record keeping and transition information. The Creating the Picture download is a really good read (in my opinion) and should help a lot of providers with observations and planning, but could equally scare some practitioners with the perceived increase in paperwork and evidence based work. (The additonal downloads from here are also a useful bedtime read )

[Rea]

I wouldnt rely too much on waiting for the training. Here in Birmingham the training lasts for 2 whole hours

I would definitly start at least looking at the EYFS and linking it through to what I do now regarding planning.

 

Now, have I read it right? Everyone who has a hand in the childs care will need to have obs records etc? Childminder, other pre-school or nursery? So does that mean these people get together or share the records at some point so that everyone is aiming for the same thing. And what if pre-school 1* wants to refer the child to HV, mom agrees, pre-school 2*doesnt agree and so wont implement any IEP. Who has final say on anything? Would a school nursery assume charge because they have QTS where playgroup hasnt? What about settings who are secretive about everything, who dont like sharing practice, will they share records etc?

Forgive me if I'm rambling but I havent read the whole CD yet.

[Guest Wolfie]

Maz, that's exactly the system I'm implementing too!

[HappyMaz]

Maz, that's exactly the system I'm implementing too!

So are you running with the EYFS then? I'm having doubts now...

 

Maz

[HappyMaz]

I wouldnt rely too much on waiting for the training. Here in Birmingham the training lasts for 2 whole hours

I would definitly start at least looking at the EYFS and linking it through to what I do now regarding planning.

 

Now, have I read it right? Everyone who has a hand in the childs care will need to have obs records etc? Childminder, other pre-school or nursery? So does that mean these people get together or share the records at some point so that everyone is aiming for the same thing. And what if pre-school 1* wants to refer the child to HV, mom agrees, pre-school 2*doesnt agree and so wont implement any IEP. Who has final say on anything? Would a school nursery assume charge because they have QTS where playgroup hasnt? What about settings who are secretive about everything, who dont like sharing practice, will they share records etc?

Forgive me if I'm rambling but I havent read the whole CD yet.

These are all excellent questions, Rea - I don't suppose the materials on the CD will actually tell you the answers anyway!

 

The issues you raise that exist under the FSC will be just the same under the EYFS - and if the setting won't implement an IEP against the parent's will then I guess that parent will just vote with their feet!

 

It would be too awful if we got into a kind of "my dad's bigger than your dad" situation between groups who have QTS or EYP and those who don't. How demoralising would that be?

 

Maz (whose dad is quite big, as it happens)

[Running Bunny]

I wouldnt rely too much on waiting for the training. Here in Birmingham the training lasts for 2 whole hours

 

Isn't that just the awareness raising though?

 

LAs should be auditing all their training at the moment to see what they currently offer and what would link into EYFS, so that they can plan for any gaps in training.

Training for planning, observations, record keeping, good practice etc will then be rolled out between now and September 08.

 

At least, that's what I thought...

[Inge]

the liasing and joint care with other settings has been a real problem for us, lots of other groups quote confidentiality at us even when we have written parents permission to get info from them, and we had one refuse to discuss a childs care , we had tried getting info from them in all ways we could think of, no papers ever returned, and they refused us a visit to discuss it- we have had lots of issues in this area.

 

thsi is oneareas which will cause us no end of problems, we have lots who attend two settings, for several reasons, mostly they need the extra hours we cannot provide. It usually Ok with children with aditional needs but for a child who is achieving as expected we cannot get anywhere. Hope the EYFS will ensure they do 'talk to us.'

 

We are looking at the changes to recording now, will take time for us to implement and adapt what we do now to give us a working document.

 

Inge

[beth1]

Maz brillant way to quote Ofsted - Mrs Ofsted.

 

 

 

Beth

[catma]

Isn't that just the awareness raising though?

 

LAs should be auditing all their training at the moment to see what they currently offer and what would link into EYFS, so that they can plan for any gaps in training.

Training for planning, observations, record keeping, good practice etc will then be rolled out between now and September 08.

 

At least, that's what I thought...

 

 

This is exactly what is happening in my LA, and is on the timeline given to us by PNS - we have audited our training offer to plug any gaps we feel are there in relation to the document using an audit tool provided to LAs for that very purpose. The key thing that is being stressed from on high is that good practice is STILL good practice and much of the eyfs is the old documents just pulled together - I'm not sure this is something you can get specific training for in its entirety, I think the thing to do is use the EYFS documents to identify the gaps in your own/your settings practice and then look for training/support in that to plug gaps. I think it will require a more proactive approach from the sector rather than waiting to "receive" it. Our training won't "change" as such, we will be creating a couple of new focuses e.g. the role of a keyworker (don't ask me It's not my training!!)based on what we think are the areas neeing support but the other things we run will be the same, just using the new documentation - they will still cover planning, observing etc etc.

 

For schools I feel it will be some aspects of the welfare regulations that may be new, rather than the curriculum. For others in the sector it might be the other way round. I don't think a LA would have the capacity to offer everything to everybody as some of it will be relevant and some of it wouldn't be.

Cx

[millhill]

My pre-school was part of the pilot Ofsted inspections for the EYFS. The inspector was trialling the new standards, so I was forced to take a 'crash course' on EYFS.

 

The inspection wasn't dissimilar to the ones we have now, I had to complete a self evaluation form (alot longer than the one we complete now!), but the inspection process was alot shorter as she took alot of the evidence from the SE form.

 

The only thing she wanted to see more of was Starting Points for children on entry to FS. Something similar to a baseline assessment, but in discussion with parents and childminders (if any). This would enable us to see where the child was before starting the pre-school.

 

My view is, if you are complying with the National Standards, FS and B23 guidance, there isn't much more to change. As long as you have kept up to date with recent legislation eg. Child protection etc there will be no problems on the Statutory Framework. The settings who will find the new changes most difficult are maintained schools, especially having to have a QTS in contact with children all the time (no more leaving TA's in charge of 25 reception children for PPA time).

 

For the Learning and development side, I am continuing with B23 and FS until LEA training has started. I was part of my LEAs EYFS training planning group, and it was suggested that a flow chart be used to guide practitioners on the specific training courses they will need in order to implement the EYFS.

 

My suggestion is to read the cards, which I have found are excellent guidance for practice, get familiar with the whole document and examples on CD rom, make an action plan of things you will need to change to comply with EYFS, then go to the relevant LEA training (probably starting from Sept 07).

 

Don't forget, there are lots of 'musts' which you have to do, also 'shoulds' which are suggestions for good practice, but you don't have to do them.

 

The sharing of children's records with other practitioners is a 'should', you could ask the childminder or other setting to contribute to a home/school record once per month/term and vice versa, then make plans for the child based on all of your entries.

 

At my pre-school, we choose 3 focus children per week, these children have a home/pre-school record just for that week, the pre-school, childminders, parents and other settings can contribute to it. The key worker takes it at the end of the week and along with the pre-school observations, plans activities for the next week based on the child's interests. The individual activity plan can be used by parents, childminder and other settings for that child if they want to.

 

If no one contributes (and this does happen with some children), then we just use our own info. but at least we can say we have tried to get other settings involved.

 

BTW we have 3 key workers and 20+ children per session (30+ in all)

 

Sorry for the length of this post!! Didn't realise it was so long til I looked back on it.

 

I hope it has been of some use to someone!!

[Guest Wolfie]

It certainly has - thank you very much for sharing all that info - and it nice that you're so positive about it all.

[millhill]

Sorry to have repeated some of what catma wrote! I think we were typing replies at the same time!

[louby loo]

thank-you for that info millhill

 

xx

[Rea]

Yes RB, the 2 hours is about raising awareness, but by the time any real training is introduced Sept 08 will be here and I do understand that the training cant be specific but I know people who are really waiting until they've been 'trained' before they even begin to think about implementing it or in one case even look at it.

 

The confidentaility issue will be a huge thing for a few places I've worked in. The managers will be nashing their teeth at the very thought.

Inge, our local school is having a nursery and I know without a shadow of a doubt that the head wont want any info passed to playgroup because he see's the staff as moms who play all day. If things arent handled carefully I can see a few disgruntled parents too.

 

It would be nice if once in a while the powers that be let the people who do the providing make some of the rules.

 

Sorry folks, just had a funny turn

[Rea]

I was typing at the same time millhill. Thanks for that its cleared a few questions I'd been thinking of

[millhill]

Rea.

 

I'm glad my spiel was of some help!!

 

In reply to your first post.

 

I was really pleased to be invited to represent the PVI sector at my LEA EYFS training planning meeting. As a manager of a community pre-school, I was given the opportunity to express my opinions on how training should be delivered. We spent a whole day together (a lovely lunch was provided!) and the good thing was alot of my suggestions were taken seriously and will be part of the EYFS training in my borough.

 

I think that most LEA's have practitioners such as pre-school managers and childminders on their EYFS training planning groups. This should ensure we do have a say in the training they disseminate.

 

 

With regards to confidentiality when sharing. I think most of us who liase with SEN professionals regularly, obtain parental permission, as well as passing transition records at the end of the year to teachers at school. If it is a Child protection issue, the new legislation makes it clear when we can share without parental permission.

 

With the home/pre-school record, where children attend school nurseries as well as a PVI nursery, parents are responsible to pass the record on to the nursery teacher in a school. Then there are no issues with confidentiality. If they don't do it, it's up to them.

I don't think we'll ever get away from the problem of other settings who won't share. But as I said before, at least we are trying to share!! So Ofsted cannot condemn us, only the other setting for not co-operating!

[Guest]

Your info was a great help Millhill!

 

Was really pleased to here about your home/pre-school record, i have just started a similiar thing called

" All about me" which has sections like " At home my favourite thing to do is........".

Iam now thinking it would be a good idea to give these out to 3 focus children a week and use the info to plan for the childrens

interests the following week!!

 

How is your record set up? Does it have written questions for the parents to answer? or do they just write notes in a book?

Once every child has had their focus week, do you repeat the cycle again?

 

Sorry for the questions, just need a bit of reassurance xx

[catma]

Yes - LAs will have a steering group as this is part of the expectations on us to deliver support across the sector.

[Guest]

Your use of home-school record for just that week's focus children sounds really workable Millhill - a great idea.

we currently observe 5 focus children each week then put obs in child's profile for parents to read - they love this but despite numerous invitations to they don't add their own comments - having a record that went home for the week might encourage this.

would love to know more about the format of the record you send home and also the format of your individual activity plans.

[millhill]

Bubbles and nsunshine: Most of our parents like to contribute to their child's record, as it is their child's 'special week'.

 

Well in advance, we arrange a meeting to discuss the record on the Monday after the child's week. We release the keyworker for upto 30 minutes to do this, (as I am supernumerary the ratios are fine) the parent (childminder) and keyworker go through the record together and the keyworker suggests activities which she has planned for the 6 areas/4 aspects, she invites the parent (childminder) to add to the plans. This is also a good way of educating parents on the FS and B23 framework as they get to see what it means in action.

 

Nearly all parents attended their meeting, if they couldn't we would arrange a more suitable time for them or just send the record and plans home for them to view and comment on.

 

The keyworker finalises the plan on the Monday and puts it into practice from the Tuesday-the next Monday.

 

I have attached files which we use: to inform parents of their child's week / the home pre-school record (which we put in a plastic zip wallet and slide bind the papers)/ information for parents and other settings.

letter_observation_week.dochome._school_record.dochome_preschool_letter_parent.dochome_preschool_letter_others.doc

 

We also lent parents digital cameras to take home in the first term so the child or parent can take photos of there favourite activities or where they went. These and the home pre-school record are added to the child's profile, which by the end of the year is quite full.

 

We repeat the cycle after all children have had their week. In a year, each child should get at least 3 individual activity plans. This makes it much more manageable, we couldn't cope with 20 records coming in and out each day!!

 

If a child is absent on their week, we try to fit them in at the end of the first lot.

 

Those children who attend just 2 or 3 sessions, are difficult to plan for, but we do what we can.

 

I am looking at amending the activity plans we use. I found a great example, very similar to the one we use on the EYFS CD rom, I think we'll be using it from September. It's on page 2 of Adobe file attached.planningfor3_4yearolds.pdf

 

We have tried the home/pre-school record for a year now. Most of the time, it is a valuable source for planning and the keyworkers always use the home interests in the pre-school plans.

 

I have noticed how much more interested the children are in the activities when it's their week, the other children seem more interested too, even though the plans weren't made for them!

Edited August 15, 2007 by millhill

[millhill]

Oh dear! My posts are so long!!

[Guest Wolfie]

....and so interesting and valauable!!! Thank you so much!

[Guest]

Thank you so much, what a great help!!x

Cant wait to start this up and see what the parents response is like!!

[Guest]

Just thought, do you give the home/pre-school record out at the beginning of the childs" special week", then plan actvities for the following week?

Or are activites planned ahead for the childs week?

 

Or are the records given out to the parents for a whole week and the activities just put into the plans at any time where suitable?

 

Sorry had a busy day, think ive lost the ability to understand anything!!!

[millhill]

We give the h/ps record out at the beginning of the child's week, if we're really organised we give it on the Friday before the child's week so we get some insight into their weekend. We take back the record for the last time on Thursday at the end of the week, and use it to make plans.

 

The activities are planned on the Friday at the end of the week, then on Monday key workers meet with parents to discuss.

On Tuesday, the plans are put into practice, until the next Tuesday, when another child's plans takes over.

 

I know it sounds a bit confusing, but it does work.

[Guest]

echoing bubblesoo - thank-you for all the info - a great help and will definately be puting somethign similar into practice.

[Guest]

Thanks again Millhill such a great help!!.

Just wondered do you follow topics or themes aswell?x