BroadOaks Posted September 28, 2016 Posted September 28, 2016 Even though we know the Government didn't give this idea much thought (as usual) and simply wanted to win the General Election, using this 30 Hours free childcare idea, it should still be a positive thing! The government are giving many parents' 30 Hours of FREE care for their children!! On the surface this is a very nice thing to do, right? They are also generating more money for childcare providers, albeit at what many believe to be a low rate of pay. I personally fail to understand this even though it has been explained to me many times! 3/4 year old's ratio 1:8 as we know. 1:13 with a EYT or QTS.. even though we should actually never even contemplate this ratio, it transpires usually to a 1:6 ratio in many settings. This depends on individual children of course and quality of provision and staff. The government can not be blamed for the difficult child or useless management and/or staff. Anyway, let me use 1:6 as the ratio for financials. 30 hours x £4 per hour is a fair figure. £120 per child per week for these 30 hours. 9am - 3pm each day ideal model. So 6 x £120 = £720 p/w Staff costs for 30 hours per week approx £10 x 30 (higher end) £300 p/w Factor in other costs p/w for rent, business rates, insurance, HR, bills etc, and yes it eats into this profit.. hard to say an exact figure.. If we care for 30 children per day.. 30 x £120 = £3600 p/w income. Staff x 5 @ £300 = £1500 p/w out Are you telling me the extra factors ie Rent would come to anywhere near £2100 p/w??? Am I missing something here? Except yes, we never get the perfect model.. so in reality the figures above are not the case but still... Maybe this is the reason the Government can't understand why childcare providers are "kicking off"? Anyways I am sure this can be explained to me again.. and I do realise many settings can not manage this kind of perfect model, and that 2 year old's and below are a factor.. longer opening hours and full time childcare is a factor etc and maybe many more...
Stargrower Posted September 28, 2016 Posted September 28, 2016 Did you take part in the survey asking us how much it costs to provide childcare BroadOaks?
lsp Posted September 28, 2016 Posted September 28, 2016 I'm guessing it would only work in settings which actually charge an hourly rate that is lower than the proposed funded rate. Assuming your hourly rate is worked out on what it costs you to supply that hour plus a 'small' profit? Am I being too simplistic?????
louby loo Posted September 28, 2016 Posted September 28, 2016 Cook, Cleaners, Admin workers, holiday pay, training costs + staff cover for said training. Sickness cover. Business rates, consumables ................ Yes I suppose some settings might make a good profit - BUT I don't think you'll find them on this site which seems to be made up of (thankfully) dedicated childcare professionals who like to put the child first. That's not meant to sound a*****y - I just don't think it's necessarily a good thing. Personally I wish they'd really think about it and do it properly. (although I don't know the answer!) We are in an affluent area - most parents do not need 15 free - and happily used to pay top-ups without question. I have the funny feeling we will suddenly have an influx of 'mum's that work' - in specially created low paid jobs in family businesses as this will allow more gym/shopping/coffee time - whilst someone else actually does the job! 2
lynned55 Posted September 28, 2016 Posted September 28, 2016 Cook, Cleaners, Admin workers, holiday pay, training costs + staff cover for said training. Sickness cover. Business rates, consumables ................ Yes I suppose some settings might make a good profit - BUT I don't think you'll find them on this site which seems to be made up of (thankfully) dedicated childcare professionals who like to put the child first. That's not meant to sound a*****y - I just don't think it's necessarily a good thing. Personally I wish they'd really think about it and do it properly. (although I don't know the answer!) We are in an affluent area - most parents do not need 15 free - and happily used to pay top-ups without question. I have the funny feeling we will suddenly have an influx of 'mum's that work' - in specially created low paid jobs in family businesses as this will allow more gym/shopping/coffee time - whilst someone else actually does the job! I think we are going to be the same! 1
lynned55 Posted September 28, 2016 Posted September 28, 2016 Broadoaks- yep on paper it looks perfect! However I'm in 'greater' London and costs for premises here are just ridiculous. I don't know how anyone could rent or be buying their building in my area on £4 per hour for each child. My setting is committee run (or so I'm told ) which means I do all the admin etc. By just doing the payroll and accounts I am saving my group a small fortune. We don't make a huge profit but we would make none at all if we employed an admin worker. You've failed to take into account staff sickness, staff training (not only do we have to pay for cover for training but also for the actual training now) Holiday pay, EENIC ect, etc. 1
Stargrower Posted September 28, 2016 Posted September 28, 2016 I can see where you're coming from BroadOaks, but think your calculations are a bit rudimental. For a start £10/hour is quite a bit more when you add employers NI. Then there's lunch cover, cover for planning and record keeping time if you work this way, SSP, SMP, holiday pay, staff cover for holidays, sickness, training days (and their NI!) paying someone to run the payroll and accounts if you do this...and that's just staff wages. I run a 44 place nursery in a small market town in East Anglia. Like many places we are in a mixed area with some extremely poor families as well as more wealthy professionals, farmers etc. We receive a reasonable level of funding but it is lower than the hourly rate we charge and is set to go down when the 30 hours come in. We'll see...
BroadOaks Posted September 29, 2016 Author Posted September 29, 2016 Yes thanks for the feedback.. We don't run to this perfect business model it is extremely difficult and I do understand that some settings require additional staff etc etc.. We have struggled through the last year ourselves, so my calculations are based on a perfect model. Putting the children 1st is hard when you can't financially afford to run the business. I do understand your comments though. Premises costs in London I wouldn't have a clue? We pay £2200 per month, just to give a figure here in the North? We do find this expensive but it is what it is
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