apple Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 Hi all just a quickie please can you clarify the age related expectations at the start of nursery and then for the start of reception. I need it to check against some information from a training course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cait Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 In what context? Speaking, toileting, moving? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catma Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 (edited) Ofsted subsidiary guidance Sept 2012 p6 "Attainment on entry to nursery at age three 10. Most children are likely to be working within the ‘Development Matters’ band for 30–50 months, having shown competence in the preceding band for 22–36 months. This may be referred to as the age-related expectation at the beginning of nursery. Attainment on entry is likely to be below age-related expectations where a substantial proportion6 of children in a school do not demonstrate all of the elements in the 22–36 month band. Attainment on entry to reception at age four 11. Most children are likely to demonstrate some of the elements of skill, knowledge and understanding within the development matters band for 40–60+ months, in addition to all of the elements in the preceding band for 30–50 months. This may be referred to as the age-related expectation at the beginning of reception. Attainment on entry is likely to be below age-related expectations where a substantial proportion of children in a school do not demonstrate all of the elements in the 30–50 month band. The statutory early learning goals establish national expectations for most children to reach by the end of Reception Year. These are the statements in bold in the 40–60+ month band." NB Most = 80% in Ofsted terms. Cx Edited October 13, 2012 by catma Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 Catma, can I ask as no-one seemed to know in my training course the other day, when Ofsted say "most" here, what happens if my baselines do not show this to be the case? In terms of the impact on me (teacher), the school, etc. Obviously I am looking to move the children along from their various starting points. Do Ofsted look for a certain level of movement in reception, in the way that at NC level the expected progress is 2 sub levels? Sorry for all the questions but I have discovered I am the EYFS in my school and being an NQT I keep coming up against questions I don't know the answer to! Thanks x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 i would say that if they come in below age related expectations - entering 40-60 band - then they can't be expected to be at age related expectations at the end of reception. i'm nursery and children expected to be working within 30-50 band at start then be 40-60 by end. so move up a band. i think if they are emerging into 30-50 at start then emerging into 40-60 at end then that's expected progress. majority of ours enter working within 22-36 band so i would say they should still be in 30-50 by end, but we try to get as many to 40-60 to make it easier for reception. hope i have not confused you even more!! x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 No not at all. Thanks that is what I was thinking really, but my mentor and KS1 leader asked if it was written down somewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluffy Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 Hi . . . .i too am a little confused . . . . .as I was recently shown some tracking proformas from a training course which had the age related expectation for nursery (on entry) as 22-36mths and for rec - 30-50!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apple Posted October 13, 2012 Author Share Posted October 13, 2012 Than you Catma that is exactly what I was looking for and confirms what I thought. Fluffy are you from Birmingham as the training materials that I received where from a colleague that went on a training course recently in Brum and this is what I was referring to. I think the materials are wrong and will be contacting the trainer to notify her. This is a worry as the materials have gone out to an awful lot of settings Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catma Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 (edited) Catma, can I ask as no-one seemed to know in my training course the other day, when Ofsted say "most" here, what happens if my baselines do not show this to be the case? In terms of the impact on me (teacher), the school, etc. Obviously I am looking to move the children along from their various starting points. Do Ofsted look for a certain level of movement in reception, in the way that at NC level the expected progress is 2 sub levels? Ofsted subsidiary guidance Sept 2012: "There are no national data for attainment on entry. Inspectors should make a professional judgement about children’s attainment on entry by taking account of the proportions of children meeting expectations in the age-related bands of ‘Development Matters’ in the Early Years Foundation Stage. Remember to avoid using the term ‘average’ and ‘standards’ as there is no ‘national average’ for three- and four-year-olds on entry to nursery and reception. Judging progress in the Early Years Foundation Stage 14. Where children make progress from age-related expectations at the beginning of nursery, to age-related expectations at the beginning of reception and the end of reception (where they can be compared with Early Years Foundation Stage Profile national figures) this is likely to represent expected progress during the Early Years Foundation Stage." If you have more than 20% of your cohort below expectations then this may impact on overall attainment, but not necessarily on progress. It's important to see the difference between the two as Ofsted uses them both to decide on the effectiveness of the teaching and learning ie achievement. There are no sub levels etc - the emerging developing securing construct has been adopted by many to give practitioners a simpler way of showing how a child might demonstrate movement across almost 20 months of a developmental stage in some cases. Ofsted, in my understanding and from talking with Inspectors in our service are primarily going to look at the overarching summative data, especially how well you are closing the gaps for your vulnerable groups. Cx Edited October 13, 2012 by catma Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mouseketeer Posted October 14, 2012 Share Posted October 14, 2012 You may get them to 40-60 by reception (above average) but schools rarely acknowledge this as it will do nothing for their 'value added' by the end of reception, it's better to say they came in average or even below average, therefor it looks like they've taken them further showing a better 'value added'........all down to politics 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sn0wdr0p Posted October 14, 2012 Share Posted October 14, 2012 Hi Catma, where can I find this subsidiary guidance document please? What it its full title? I personally find the ofsted site pretty unuser friendly for finding documents. Thank you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catma Posted October 14, 2012 Share Posted October 14, 2012 http://www.ofsted.gov.uk/resources/subsidiary-guidance-supporting-inspection-of-maintained-schools-and-academies-september-2012 Cx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 14, 2012 Share Posted October 14, 2012 Hi I went to recent training and for entry to reception we were told that the age related expectation was considered to be secure in 30-50 across the board and achieving 'some' of 40-60. They did not go into any detail of how much was 'some'. re mouse 63- I have several children who were recorded as 'securely achieving 40-60' in certain areas by their nursery/pre school/playgroup but in a different setting ie our school with a ratio of 1-15 instead of 1-8 and the changes of routine and expectations, they are not achieving this which suggests that they were not secure in the first place as they have not transfered skills. I have 1 setting who regularly highlights secure in 40-60 for writing if they can write their name..... I therefore have to look very carefully at the transition documents and make up my own mind about where the children are in my setting. Its not politics, it's just making sure that we are realistic and not in the case of 2 of our (very expensive) feeder nurserys inflating what the children have achieved so that the parents feel justified in spending so much!! deb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mouseketeer Posted October 14, 2012 Share Posted October 14, 2012 I wasn't actually talking from a reception teacher point of view where children are or aren't on entry, from reading lots of different threads on this forum how reception teachers use/or don't use the information passed on to them seems to vary, and as you say it's suprising how they can regress from where early years settings have them, especially from a confidence/independence point of view, they've had 6/7 weeks to be out of routine and probably not such high expectations on them at home as we maybe have of them by that last half term especially, and even as a shared setting itcan cause problems when parents ask how come their children are progressing faster in their other setting as they have them marked at a higher level, I was speaking more as a general needing to show a fair amount of progress by the end of reception as quite a bit of emphasis in schools (rightly or wrongly) is put on 'value added' and 'attainment' as with the end of ks1 and ks2 and so on.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 14, 2012 Share Posted October 14, 2012 Thanks for the clarification Catma. I feel much better about what I thought now! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catma Posted October 14, 2012 Share Posted October 14, 2012 I was speaking more as a general needing to show a fair amount of progress by the end of reception as quite a bit of emphasis in schools (rightly or wrongly) is put on 'value added' and 'attainment' as with the end of ks1 and ks2 and so on.... Within the Primary section 5 inspections now the focus is on children across all 3 key stages making good or better progress. That means that if any key stage is not attaining well enough over time the school overall would be inadequate for that judgement. Cx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
green hippo Posted October 14, 2012 Share Posted October 14, 2012 There are no sub levels etc - the emerging developing securing construct has been adopted by many to give practitioners a simpler way of showing how a child might demonstrate movement across almost 20 months of a developmental stage in some cases. Ofsted, in my understanding and from talking with Inspectors in our service are primarily going to look at the overarching summative data, especially how well you are closing the gaps for your vulnerable groups. Cx So, is the only way of showing that a child is above average is to say that s/he is working within the higher band e.g. in Nursery they would have to be working within 40-60 months to show really being above average. I have my above average children securing in 30-50 months but would that 'officially' put them still as average?? Thanks, Green Hippo x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 14, 2012 Share Posted October 14, 2012 It all depends on your own on entry data. For example under the old areas of learning the vast majority of our children came in at secure in the 36 month but with only one or two exceeding. They then went to be exceeding the 50 month band on exit and achieved well above national averages in the profile. So they came in below expectation, left nursery around about age expectation and then after reception exceeding expectation. The important bit is that there IS no national average for on entry. Ofsted will be looking for relative progress. So your above average children should be emerging in 60 month at the start of reception and exceeding the ELGs at the end. If they are doubtless it will be expected that you are assessing them against NC level 1. Ofsted simply want to see that you know your children's starting points and can show the progress they make. They expect that settings will move children on and look closely at overall progress at end of reception. If your children start very low do they catch up? Do certain groups make more progress than others, are you aware of it and what are you doing to address it. Isn't that what we should all be doing anyway? On first impressions I think the 36 months bands are more straightforward than previously so I won't be surprised if the on entry this year shows more exceeding 36 months especially looking at prime areas. This does mean it might well be harder to show progress through nursery although progress from prime to specific areas will be the way we go this year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sn0wdr0p Posted October 15, 2012 Share Posted October 15, 2012 Thank you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catma Posted October 15, 2012 Share Posted October 15, 2012 So, is the only way of showing that a child is above average is to say that s/he is working within the higher band e.g. in Nursery they would have to be working within 40-60 months to show really being above average. I have my above average children securing in 30-50 months but would that 'officially' put them still as average?? Thanks, Green Hippo x It's also about the relationship between attainment and national expectations. To say a child is working above expectations is better than average I think. The "average" for a class may be very low so your apparently high fliers may actually just be at expectations when compared to national. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catma Posted October 15, 2012 Share Posted October 15, 2012 Ofsted simply want to see that you know your children's starting points and can show the progress they make. They expect that settings will move children on and look closely at overall progress at end of reception. If your children start very low do they catch up? Do certain groups make more progress than others, are you aware of it and what are you doing to address it. Isn't that what we should all be doing anyway? Absolutely agree. Cx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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