What Do You Think Of Phonics?

[Pimms o'clock?]

Have a look at this link,

 

http://michaelrosenb...ner-writes.html

 

I hope Ofsted have been primed and are prepared to be challenged if they suggest we use phonics in the EYFS. This is a lady after my own heart, what do you think?

[lashes2508]

Just read it phonetically haha - excellent blog and i agree wholeheartedly with all penny says - well said

[zigzag]

Great reading and someone talking sense.

[catma]

Polemic is always interesting.The position taken does seem to assume though that early phonological awareness is about matching letters to sounds in order to decode text. Which It isn't. Indeed if children arrive in reception without having a good grounding in listening and tuning into sound (nb not phoneme grapheme correspondences per se) then they can struggle to be at the expected level by the end of reception.This would then disadvantage them as they go into year 1, not because they are too young or not capable but because they were not given the opportunities to learn the skills they need.

 

Early phonological awareness is about rhyme, song, listening to the sounds around us, hearing sounds that we recognise and being able to discriminate between them amongst other things. In fact the 30 - 50 band for reading describes the exact types of things that are found in phase 1 phonics as:

 

• Enjoys rhyming and rhythmic activities.

• Shows awareness of rhyme and alliteration.

• Recognises rhythm in spoken words.

• Listens to and joins in with stories and poems, one-to-one

and also in small groups.

• Joins in with repeated refrains and anticipates key events and phrases in rhymes and stories.

 

even in 22 -36 months (1.10 years to 3years) we have

Has some favourite stories, rhymes, songs, poems or jingles.

• Repeats words or phrases from familiar stories.

• Fills in the missing word or phrase in a known rhyme, story or game, e.g. ‘Humpty Dumpty sat on a …’.

 

It may not say "phonics" but that's what it is underpinning. Are we honestly saying we wouldn't be doing that with children until they are in reception?

Cx

[finleysmaid]

I think what the blog is describing is the fact that the OFSTED inspector was expecting her to be teaching phonics to her 2 year olds (something i loathe BTW and i still come across settings trying to do this with children who cannot even talk properly....utterly daft IMO) and when you have been inspected by people who don't know how the eyfs should work this is such a common experience. What would be nice to know is what the inspector said when the blog writer argued this point. We need to be confident in our practise and put our points of view forward and be able to back it up with solid information, quoting information like catma has provided is what we need to be doing. That way ofsted will know we know our stuff and will accept us as the professionals we are.

[Guest]

Polemic is always interesting.The position taken does seem to assume though that early phonological awareness is about matching letters to sounds in order to decode text. Which It isn't. Indeed if children arrive in reception without having a good grounding in listening and tuning into sound (nb not phoneme grapheme correspondences per se) then they can struggle to be at the expected level by the end of reception.This would then disadvantage them as they go into year 1, not because they are too young or not capable but because they were not given the opportunities to learn the skills they need.

 

Early phonological awareness is about rhyme, song, listening to the sounds around us, hearing sounds that we recognise and being able to discriminate between them amongst other things. In fact the 30 - 50 band for reading describes the exact types of things that are found in phase 1 phonics as:

 

• Enjoys rhyming and rhythmic activities.

• Shows awareness of rhyme and alliteration.

• Recognises rhythm in spoken words.

• Listens to and joins in with stories and poems, one-to-one

and also in small groups.

• Joins in with repeated refrains and anticipates key events and phrases in rhymes and stories.

 

even in 22 -36 months (1.10 years to 3years) we have

Has some favourite stories, rhymes, songs, poems or jingles.

• Repeats words or phrases from familiar stories.

• Fills in the missing word or phrase in a known rhyme, story or game, e.g. ‘Humpty Dumpty sat on a …’.

 

It may not say "phonics" but that's what it is underpinning. Are we honestly saying we wouldn't be doing that with children until they are in reception?

Cx

 

Hello

 

I am Penny, the person who wrote the blog.

 

I think that maybe I did not make my self clear - I am certainly not saying that children should not be offered and encouraged to take part in all the things you quite rightly mention in your post.

 

In fact I said in my blog (my understanding of intention of EYFS )

 

It says that by offering opportunities and experiences such as those mentioned in the guidance document – that somewhere between 40 and 60+ months of age the children will be able to confidently use the skills they have achieved through play, through speaking and listening, through stories and rhymes – to decode words and start the process of reading and writing.

Which, if I am not mistaken, is what you are saying?

 

My difficulty with the letters and sounds pack is a) it was intended for end stage nursery / reception class,B) it is according to introduction meant for group activities, c) to be mainly adult led - and d) before you reach the end of Phase one - children are experience via Aspect 7 oral blending and segmenting.

 

I also worry that well meaning adults will then move on to phase 2 and so on with little regard to if children are ready or not - just because they have done all the suggested activities in phase 1, once.

 

In previous employments I have seen far to many 'whole class' activities where 3 year olds are expected to sit still and 'copy' the adult or wait for everyone else in their class to have a turn.

 

By aiming it at groups of children - you should expect (in rough % terms) 1/3rd of the class not to be at that stage yet, 1/3 for it to be just right and 1/3 ready to move on.

 

However some of the suggested activities are fine and can provide inspiration - but so do the suggestions in development matters (both the 08 ans the 12 versions and the old (but now back in favour) Birth to Three pack.

 

I apologise for the misunderstanding caused and hope that I have explained myself a little better now.

 

Penny

[Guest]

I think what the blog is describing is the fact that the OFSTED inspector was expecting her to be teaching phonics to her 2 year olds (something i loathe BTW and i still come across settings trying to do this with children who cannot even talk properly....utterly daft IMO) and when you have been inspected by people who don't know how the eyfs should work this is such a common experience. What would be nice to know is what the inspector said when the blog writer argued this point. We need to be confident in our practise and put our points of view forward and be able to back it up with solid information, quoting information like catma has provided is what we need to be doing. That way ofsted will know we know our stuff and will accept us as the professionals we are.

 

Thank you you have summed it up nicely.

 

My pilot report which does not count so is not on the website is full of quotes about the children's speaking and listening skills.

I think the inspector 'had' to put something - and I suppose that if that was only thing that she could think of - I was pleased.

 

I did not challenge the inspector because to be honest after 5 hours of being a guinea pig - I was the first ever pilot - so new to inspector and me - and I had only had a few days noticed and 3 days to read and absorb what was then the draft EYFS. Plus due to a leg injury over the weekend I was in a lot of pain - I had had enough.

 

But the main reason because a pilot the recommendation did not stand - I do not have to act on it

 

 

However if I get that sort of comment at my 'proper' inspection I will challenge it.

 

As you say - we need to be treated as professionals who know what we re on about.

 

In my case I think I was treated as a professional - as the whole pilot inspection was about the progress of the children and for that and everything else I was graded outstanding (not that it counts either) and I think it was the inspectors attempt to find 'something' - although it is worrying that I was not the only pilot 'guinea pig' to have that recommendation

 

Penny

[Guest]

Forgot to say - if accessing and reading on Michael Rossen's blog you will not see the comments made by others - or my replies

 

the direct link to my blog is www.pennysplacechildminding.com from there you can access the phonics blog and any others that ou wish to read

 

Penny

[catma]

Hi Penny, Thanks for the clarification - I think basically we're all on the same page here! I completely agree with you about inappropriate teaching of very young children and a somewhat formulaic approach.

 

Cx

[finleysmaid]

well hi Penny...nice to have you around. We like a good discussion on here and it's great to hear you side of the story as it were! but as you say even if this is a pilot it is still a bit of a concern that the inspector should even mention it! :huh: Anyway glad you've clarified your position and i hope you give your proper inspector a good tongue lashing if they mention letters and sounds

[Mouseketeer]

We actually covered phonics actions and sounds during last term ( jolly phonics) due to an ofsted comment on our feeder schools last report which said 'children are coming into reception broadly average or above in all areas except cll where some are showing as below average', well being that 99% of those children were from us I was quite upset and went to see teacher, it had come about as one of the statements that was quite high in our eyfs had exact statement as only point 2 on profiles, hence that's what the inspector had picked up on, and when cross referencing eyfs statements to same statements on profiles there were quite a few inconsistencies, one of the statements in Kuw design and making was in 22-36m yet point 8 on profiles, so hoping with revised eyfs things should be more consistent.

[redjayne]

We have been doing phase 1 letters and sounds for about three years now, both as a focussed activity in large groups and small group activities every day with all ages from 2-5 and when our children progressed to local schools it was noted that they made better progress in pre reading and reading than children from other settings, and their listening and concentration were good too. So we will be continuing with Phase 1 but I did get into a heated debate with one of our feeder schools who asked me to implement Phase 2 as well because 'they didn't have time to do it and it would be easier if it was already covered' despite the fact it's totally inappropriate for our age group!

[catma]

I did get into a heated debate with one of our feeder schools who asked me to implement Phase 2 as well because 'they didn't have time to do it and it would be easier if it was already covered' despite the fact it's totally inappropriate for our age group!

 

Of course they have time. What rubbish!! The whole of phase 2 and 3 is designed to fit in the reception year with well paced, quality first teaching!! If they can't fit it in what on earth are they doing??!

[redjayne]

I totally agree Catma - hence one of the many reasons I refused and argued the case, especially as this was an 'Outstanding' school according to Ofsted and should be delivering well paced quality teaching all the time anyway!

[catma]

Well if that's the case they should know that it isn't all about who does what phase where but about getting a good grounding so the next phase can be taught effectively and children are not behind.

Of course if children are really ready then there's nothing wrong with doing phase 2 before reception but at this point it would have to be based on accurate assessment and knowledge of the children's capabilities.