What To Do When You Manager Of Setting So Bad At Job.

[Miacat3]

Hi thought long and hard about posting but got to point where don't know what else to do. Manager is over 59 and very set in her ways. Everything is done this way because it has always been done this way and it always the easy option. She has run setting for last 7 years. We have 2 members of staff and a deputy who all want to make changes to pretty much everything as we all feel manager not doing the job she is paid for. Policy file is out of date has the staff names on the staffing list from the 3 members of staff that left last October. The list with the CRB numbers has not been update since I started, again has all old staff on. So much paperwork is out of date. We did a fire drill today and I discovered a fire file that I didn't know existed. In it has floor plans of all power points, smoke alarms etc. All other staff had seen it and signed last November. We discovered weekly risk assessment not done, weekly smoke alarm tests not done. When we came to do fire drill the smoke alarm that we use as a fire alarm was shoved in a cupboard with no batteries in it. The list of things not being carried out is too long to list but who do we need to talk to or inform about how bad manager is. We are a small playgroup who is run by committee, who have informed us that they want to leave as soon as we can get another chairperson and treasurer. So I can't go to them about how bad manager is. The setting got satisfactory from the last ofstead report that we had last year and the one before this was the same. We all want to move the settings forward and we want to improve the standard of care the children are getting but the manager is standing in the way of this and don't know who to turn to for help. Any advice would be welcome.

[hali]

If you are getting no support from your committee contact you EYC and talk to her about the situation - hope it gets resolved soon for all of you

[Fredbear]

Hi if you are part of the PSLA you should have a named Development Officer who should come to the setting to do a health check regularly. You should also have a named Early Years Foundation Stage Advisor for your setting that should also come to the setting to offer advice and support.

 

Has the Manager just lost interest in her job role, or is she finding it hard to keep up with the paperwork involved in running a provision.[ If the latter is the case can you offer to share out the reponsibilities amongst all staff].

In our setting with fourteen staff, each person has a role and is the named responsible person for it, this helps to share the workload but also gives everyone a sense of belonging and ownership.

Obviously some of the issues raised have huge implications for you all both in a duty of care and safety and require urgent attention.

 

I would on this occasion have to speak to the Chairperson and Committee as they have overall responsibility and need to action change as a priority.

Wishing you good luck with this, please let us know how you get on.

[HappyMaz]

What a sad situation. It sounds to me that you need some sort of outside provocation from a respected source to get things moving in your group, because clearly there is the will to make changes but for whatever reason practitioners feel disempowered to tackle the obstacle to change.

 

What is it that concerns you most about your manager's ability to run the setting effectively?

 

If you're worried about whether the welfare requirements are being met, then perhaps you could refer to your operational plan (or make one if you don't have one). I found this an incredibly useful exercise when preparing for my Ofsted inspection because it holds all the information about how you meet the welfare requirements in one place. I designed a form which had space for me to enter information about where documents were held or how we met the particular legal requirement. This made it very clear where the gaps were, and where further work was needed. Of course this was easy for me to commit to as the owner of my setting. In a committee run setting this could be a big undertaking to ask a volunteer to do, or for a staff member to do especially if there's little or no money in the pot to pay for overtime.

 

If you are more concerned about the kind of environment the manager is providing for your children, I wonder if it is worth asking your LA or PLA development worker to come in and do an audit on your provision? I know some LAs use RAG ratings, and others use ECERS to audit environments and these can be used to identify what is being done well, what needs to be changed as a matter of priority and what are longer term areas for development.

 

I think if you are to tackle the manager's under performance you need some evidence to back up your concerns to be able to identify genuine areas for development along with good solid reasons for doing so. I also wonder when her last appraisal was, has her job performance been measured against the requirements of her job description, and what sort of response she has given when ideas for change have been raised in the past. What are her feelings about her job? Is she happy? Does she think she's doing a good job or does she have her own needs for support which have been unidentified or are unmet for other reasons?

 

It can be hard to rise to the challenge of change when you've been doing a job for a long time and she may be feeling incredibly threatened by practitioners who she recognises are more reflective and forward thinking than she is. This is all supposition on my part, but it can be incredibly isolating when you feel your practice is being challenged and questioned. It may be that if you talk to her about the situation she may well need more support to do her job effectively such as help with time management, or learning to delegate.

 

In my experience these kinds of problems are never quite as clear cut as at first glance, especially where people are involved! Good luck with getting it resolved though. I hope you're all able to move forward together before too long!

[Guest]

This is where committee run settings can really fall down, because in reality it is your committee as employers who are responsible for sorting this out.

 

They need to do regular appraisals, highlight areas for improvement and then take disciplinary procedures if this doesn't happen.

 

That's no help to you though if committee are not wanting to get involved.

 

As others have said, surely your local authority early years team is the place to start? They have a duty to ensure local settings are properly run.

[Miacat3]

Thanks for getting back to me so quickly. All staff have had concerns for a while but things have only come to light this week with the manager being off work. Our policies file that is out of date, the deputy has offered her support to help bring things up to date but the manager just tells her that she doesn't get pay for taking work home. When the deputy questions the manager about how the setting is run, she just gets shouted at and comments are made about who is running this setting.The manager just can't seem to let go of things and admit that she could do with some help. This has lead to the deputy telling me this week she is not a deputy because she doesn't do anything that we don't do and she feels so depress about work and is thinking of telling the manager that she doesn't want to be the deputy any more.

 

We haven't had a planning meet since October. I just go into work and I am told what activity I am doing. I am having no imput into the planning at all and when I have brought up ideas, I am just shot down in flames that this is how we are doing things. We are not allowed to do anything messy and indoor toys are not allowed outside. This means that cameras, babies, and dressing up clothes to name but a few. The role play area has been a home corner since I started over a year ago. We can not put colour in the water and the few times we have put glitter in she doesn't talk to you for the rest of the day and you just get the cold shoulder if you talk to her.

 

As for welfare concerns where to start. She is the only one to do risk assessments but I have seen her fill in a whole months just standing and ticking the form not walking around the setting. Fire drills have seen her fill in 3 months because we haven't done one. In my whole time there since last sept I have done 3. The list goes on and on. I don't think I can talk to committee as they don't seem bothered by setting now they have given notice and we have got an AGM planned for this month to get new people on the committee but I don't hold out much hope for any parents coming forward. We all think that the manager is just doing the job for an easy wage. She just wants to do as little as she can and get paid for it. She is always suffering from a bad back so she can't lift anything and she pulled her hamstring bending down at work a few months ago. She is not fit and healthy to do the job.

 

As for appraisals we don't have them. The committee that we have at the moment asked me what I thought needed doing to move the setting forward and I mentions my concern about how setting was been run and that other staff had concerns at a committee meeting that only I attended out of the staff. This was about 4 months ago. I told the deputy the next day that I had spoke up and the deputy rung the chairperson and spoke to her about her concerns also but no real action was taken.

 

The staff are all bored so we dread to think how the children feel as it the same resources out day in and day out. We have tried to talk to manager about changing things but no change happens and we are told we can not put rice out in sand tray the children will try to eat it. We can not do planting with the children as they will just wreck the plants by running the bikes into plant pots because the last time she allowed staff to do this this is what happened.

 

Feel like I'm going mad. I'm a level 3 childcare worker who has many years experience and is studying for Foundation Degree but I feel like I did when I first started training many years ago and that I don't know what I'm talking about and should not rock the boat. Ahhhh!

[Rea]

Good grief I feel for you, honestly. I've worked with people like that but on supply so I knew an end was in sight.

 

I cant really add to whats been said. If the committee are unwilling to help and the manager doesnt want to change I suppose its up to you and the other staff to stand up and say you've had enough. Easier said than done I know.

 

Are any of you on good enough terms with the manager to sit and have a confidential chat with her? She may have things going on in her personal life that mean she just doesnt want the hassel of playgroup, but at the same time, she might feel she should be able to keep things going herself, not many people can ask for help when they need it and its not always apparent that help is needed when you're stuck in the middle of everything going on.

 

A visit from a development worker might be a place to start but I know of a very old fashioned toddler group where the DW is smiled at and totally ignored.

 

It might help your cause if you put your concerns in writing. It will be more of an impact on paper and it'll be a record of your concerns should Ofsted arrive again.

 

Loads of luck

[Inge]

What concerns me is the apparent lack of support - had we a satisfactory Ofsted report we would have had someone from the Early years team descending on us regularly...

 

Do think this is the way to go ....

 

and no you are not going mad, but sound like an experienced practitioner who would love to use all her skills to benefit the children.. the reason we all work in this area!

 

Thinking about the 'age' don't like to say really but could she just be marking time for retirement.. and hence only wants to do what she always has. No reason to do much if she doesn't plan to stay forever.. and doesn't want to admit the changes over the last couple of years have been too much for her to cope with... there have been so many, and paperwork increased with all the constant changes needed. In Past it was a control of the setting when running it.. things changed and from your comments she seems unable to cope .

 

as to back problems etc... i had them and it did not make me unfit for the job, just needed staff to pull together to cover the things I couldn't do easily... we all had our problems so it was a work together thing.. which seems to be missing..

 

this really sounds the opposite to so many on here who manage a setting and cannot get staff to change.. must be as much if not more of a battle to make a change when you have no authority.

[Beau]

What an awful situation for you, but sadly this is one problem that committee run preschools can face. As others have said, in cases like these you really need a good early years team in your area to call on for support but if that is also not happening then I don't know what to suggest.

 

I left my last post as I felt the preschool was lacking in certain areas and I had no power to change it. As time had gone on I was dreading work more and more and felt there was nothing else I could do. So I know how demoralising it can be but I hope that you have a better outcome!

[Guest jenpercy]

Have you seen the actual OFSTED report. It will have had some recommendatoins on it that OFSTED should have been informed of when done. Did the setting do a SEF - can you see this.

I have just Googled Somerset early Years and found loads of stuff includin a QUALITY IMPROVEMENT PLANNER!

Your LA should be monitoring you - and offering help to get you to improve to good. I would ring them and put dilema to them so they will come out to visit.

[Inge]

Have you seen the actual OFSTED report. It will have had some recommendatoins on it that OFSTED should have been informed of when done. Did the setting do a SEF - can you see this.

I have just Googled Somerset early Years and found loads of stuff includin a QUALITY IMPROVEMENT PLANNER!

Your LA should be monitoring you - and offering help to get you to improve to good. I would ring them and put dilema to them so they will come out to visit.

 

 

Somerset do have all that and would have been out several times by now..

 

pity its Yorkshire she needs the help... don't know what they are like there..

[suebear]

Hi MiaCat3, just wondered which part of Yorkshire you were in? We're East Yorkshire and I know the local authority are really short staffed and struggling to visit a lot of settings at the moment, I hope things improve for you, hopefully the new committee will come together and support you. x

[Guest]

Miacat3,

I really feel for you. I could have written that post myself (just that our manager is past retirement age and just won't leave and it's a private place without committee, so run entirely by manager)

 

I'm also Level3 doing Foundation Degree and it makes me want to shout when I read about best practice and I know it's the opposite to what we're doing. As in your setting, all the staff are concerned but no-one dares to challenge manager (well apart from rebellious me ), so every staff meeting feels like a fight between her and me.

 

We haven't had a planning meet since October. I just go into work and I am told what activity I am doing. I am having no imput into the planning at all and when I have brought up ideas, I am just shot down in flames that this is how we are doing things. We are not allowed to do anything messy and indoor toys are not allowed outside. This means that cameras, babies, and dressing up clothes to name but a few. The role play area has been a home corner since I started over a year ago. We can not put colour in the water and the few times we have put glitter in she doesn't talk to you for the rest of the day and you just get the cold shoulder if you talk to her.

 

I would second what the others have said, it would be a good idea to talk things through with your LA Early Years Advisors. In the end this is what I did, at first anonymously by phone, but the advisor was so shocked he said I should tell him the settings name, which I did. They visited the same week (just a 'routine' visit, no-one mentioned my complaint) and because of serious safeguarding concerns (esp over recruitment practices) they passed us on to Ofsted. This sort of shook up the manager, because all the action points were things I had raised before, so now she actually listens to me (she even allowed me to put some water in our usually empty water tray!)

 

So there is hope yet, maybe you do need to 'rock the boat' a little first though...

Do keep posting, I look forward to hearing how you get on.

 

x Titania

[Miacat3]

Thanks again for all replies. I'm in West Yorkshire and the EYC was suppose to vists us before Christmas to check that we had made changes that she had recommended but we haven't seen her or heard anything from her.

 

When I mentioned the manager's bad back, we do all help her as much as possible. But most of the time she is struggling to walk let alone sit at the tables with the children or sit on the sofa to read stories. She is also now saying that she can not go on courses that require her to sit down for longer that a hour as she can't do it with her back. This is the reason she is using for why her first aid certificate ran out in 2009 and she has not attend a course but we all know that she was booked on a course with the rest of us but decide to go to see a show instead, which would mean sitting for more than an hour.

 

Anyway think a phone call to EYC is the way to go. I plan to ring Deputy over the weekend and speak to her about what to do. Just hope and pray that the poo doesn't hit the fan and come back to me, as I really don't want to lose my job! Wish me luck and will keep you posted.

 

Thanks again for all the advice.

[Guest]

There is whistleblower legislation that should protect you.

 

Speak to the ACAS helpline if you are worried about your job, they are very helpful.