Review Into Vanessa George

[Guest]

And all for no financial reward?!!

 

 

"Hopefully after this weeks AGM I'll have a committee who can take over some of the jobs."

 

I truly hope you find some x

 

I'll second that!

 

And could I add a few more jobs to Rea's list: write termly newsletter, apply for capital funding, sort cash flow, sort end of year accounts, send returns to charity commission, hold and minute termly meetings, set budgets, organise advertising and send articles to local paper. I'd better stop there!

 

Rea I hope you get some support, I am so very lucky to have 4 good people on our committee right now, hope you can find the same.

[Rea]

I have about 6 or 7 nominations and I'm going to accept every one!!!

[finleysmaid]

i've read this post with interest over the past couple of days and seen it develop from a conversation about the vanessa george review into what appears to be a bit of a review of pre-schools groups.

firstly i feel that the review shows the inability of lea's to communicate to ofsted and to make sure that change is put in place in settings they are not happy with....how the lea can be concerned and ofsted rate it as satisfactory and good is a worry. at the end of the day we all have a lesson to learn from this woman...never be complacent regarding safeguarding and don't make assumptions.

with regards to the situation in pre-schools i am rather shocked! i run a committee led pre-school ...i am very lucky with my committee they are great and support me in everything (and question me!) but i run the group i do the interviewing, i run the planning, do the appraisals etc etc i now employ someone to do the books/wages and booking lists. I am the qualified manager and the qualified pre-school supervisor i do not and would not ask the committee to do these jobs. i have at some point done every job in the pre-school. I think some groups are being unrealistic about what they expect from their committee's - let's face it they are not paid. We have changed the role of our members over the years and removed most of the 'jobs' from them, they now run just as governors would in a school (in fact they are the trustees too so have exactly the same job)...there are obviously some very hard working chairs out there but maybe you need to think outside the box and change the systems. Please don't condemn groups like my own because one woman has done some vile things in a group run by an ineffectual manager.

[hali]

The trouble with groups like the one in question is: if they get a 'good' from Ofsted they do not have to listen or take on board what their LA were saying/offering to them. Also i feel from reading it it was Ofsted not keeping the LA up to date with complaints/concerns not the other way round!

 

Hopefully now Ofsted are taking on the importance of RAG rating and looking at these pre inspection it may help....(we can hope)

 

No one is putting down individual groups as some work very well BUT communications are vital and I could be pretty certain that group were/are not alone with not knowing who thier committee members are or what their job roles should be......

[Guest]

Finleysmaid: you run your group as I originally imagined it and its exciting (from my perspective of possibly getting involved in a playgroup) to know this is achievable.

 

I think the key ingredients to a successful group isn't necessarily all about the set up but also the commitment of those involved in making it a success and the support available.

 

I think it was the multitude of issues that led to this happening not just one event or the set up and if we look back at baby p, victoria climbie etc history has repeated itself once again jn terms of people knowing 'something' and nothing being done about it.

 

This thread if nothing else has achieved debate and if only one person makes a change because of it then it's been some success...and it has for me in terms of being able to offer a different perspective of running to the playgroup to hopefully achieve clarity, recognition, alleviate unnecessary workload, etc so thank you guys, invaluable as ever.

[Guest]

i've read this post with interest over the past couple of days and seen it develop from a conversation about the vanessa george review into what appears to be a bit of a review of pre-schools groups.

firstly i feel that the review shows the inability of lea's to communicate to ofsted and to make sure that change is put in place in settings they are not happy with....how the lea can be concerned and ofsted rate it as satisfactory and good is a worry. at the end of the day we all have a lesson to learn from this woman...never be complacent regarding safeguarding and don't make assumptions.

with regards to the situation in pre-schools i am rather shocked! i run a committee led pre-school ...i am very lucky with my committee they are great and support me in everything (and question me!) but i run the group i do the interviewing, i run the planning, do the appraisals etc etc i now employ someone to do the books/wages and booking lists. I am the qualified manager and the qualified pre-school supervisor i do not and would not ask the committee to do these jobs. i have at some point done every job in the pre-school. I think some groups are being unrealistic about what they expect from their committee's - let's face it they are not paid. We have changed the role of our members over the years and removed most of the 'jobs' from them, they now run just as governors would in a school (in fact they are the trustees too so have exactly the same job)...there are obviously some very hard working chairs out there but maybe you need to think outside the box and change the systems. Please don't condemn groups like my own because one woman has done some vile things in a group run by an ineffectual manager.

 

That really sounds like a great way to do things, and I'm not trying to be awkward, but ... from what I have gathered over the last two years, you are not really the 'employer'. That's your committee and as a result they 'should' (i.e. have a statutory responsibility to) be involved alongside you in interviewing and appraisals.

 

Could I ask how you afford to pay someone to do the books? I'd love to employ an accountant but we simply cannot make ends meet to do that.

[Rea]

Please don't condemn groups like my own because one woman has done some vile things in a group run by an ineffectual manager.

 

I would hate to think you feel anyone is condemning your group finsleymaid.

If your group works and everyones happy with it thats fine. We are a charity and that prevents the staff from doing the trustees roles and we adopted the PLA constituion and the roles of the committee come with it, changing it takes time and effort that I certainly dont have to spare and anyway, mostly we're content with what we have to do.

The playleader and staff earn far less than I would like to pay them and do a considerable amount that cant be factored into their salary, so I wouldnt want to ask them to take over the invoices, rent, accounts etc. even if our constitution allowed.

I do my role on a voluntary basis, I knew that when I agreed to it and so do any of the committee. I know for some committee members it can be daunting but until the government, charity commission, PLA and all other interested bodies can find a solution to having a committee which is mostly made up of parents, we'll battle on.

[lynned55]

What an interesting discussion. I woul dlike to comment on this though;

 

Officially the committee run the setting. they employ the staff, decide wages, pay the rent, insurance, any bills. They send out invoices, claim funding, submit accounts, write policies. They also do the playleaders appraisal, she does the rest of the staff with their support and they also check planning so it complys with current legistaltion and check the accident book. (I bet Suzie can add to the list)

 

Everything that is listed above I do as Manager and have done for the past 10+ years. Only thing that isn't done by me or my Deputy are the accounts. Our group runs just like finlaysmaid, always has done even 20 years ago when I was a committee member myself I wasn't doing half the stuff Suzie does, I'm going to say and I could well be wrong here but I dont know of any committee run group in my area that has Chairs/committee members doing what you do. I also write the newsletters, have organized & applied for the capital funding, & even redone minutes of committee meetings, admitidly if I was to interview new staff I would do so with the Chair & Sec but I would be the one with the ultimate decision & the one drawing up the job descriptions, contracts, adverts etc. etc. Like finalysmaid, I would not expect my committee to come in and do these jobs, I certainly wouldn't expect or accept committee coming in to start checking my planning or accident book, they dont know what they are looking for or what should be done.

I've said it before Suzie but I do think your Manager is so, so lucky to have you. I have a wonderful Chairperson, Sec & Treasurer who all do a wonderful job. But I wouldn't go in and tell them how to administer the law or serve beer (one is a solicitor & one manages a pub)

I dont see committee run groups being any different to the private day care nursery over the road that is owned by a group of Dentists but managed on a day to day basis by a Manager trained in Early Years & childcare. Perhaps I have just been lucky over the years and have just never had anyone come in and start laying down the law or causing problems (not that I am suggesting anyone here is !!)

 

Back to the original point though, I am truly amazed (as OP have already said) that the staff did not know where to report concerns to? She (Vanessa George} wasn't the Manager, but even if she had been well if all else failed I would have just rang my LEA. I wonder if those staff are just a little bit ashamed of themselves, which is why so few staff have come forward for interview. I must admit to reading some of it open mouthed, some parents did not even know who was running the group trustees, private or LEA .How could you leave your child somewhere you know so little about? Why Ofsted never communicated with the LEA is beyond me as well, they really do deserve a good kick up the you know what, not just for this but they just need a jolly good shake up all round as far as EY's are concerned. It's upsetting isn't it that a group like this gets a 'good' outcome and classed as good as another group or worse even better, despite all this.

[finleysmaid]

thanks for the replies - just to clarify - my committee are the legal employers and do have the final say in employing personell and for some positions are involved in the process too but none of them are trained to do this job and so rely on my knowledge to guide them ( my husbands employer doesn't sit in on every interview they have an HR department for that!). We are a charity and have a PLA constitution ...we have to have a named treasurer and secretary but they can be titles only with the proviso that they are fed back to from the person doing the job.(just as governors do at school)

in regards to how we afford to employ people to do the books etc my deputy has an elderly mother and wanted to spend more time with her so she originally took on the role of treasurer and has now added the secretary role to her growing list of things. we have had to ensure that security arrangements are in place for this ( so that she can't run off with our vast funds etc) but the arrangement has worked really well for all of us- we were just lucky!!! i have put training in place for her to do this job and she gets paid a higher rate for the 2 days that she does her admin job but she is able to do it all in 2 days.(accounts are audited externally of course)

my committee do the newsletters though ..... i delegate that one!

p.s. does anyone know what their RAG rating is from their LEA ...i don't and i've been around a long time!...i could have been red all this time and not known

[hali]

we agree the ratings of the quisp as we go through it with the managers - i would suggest you ask them

[finleysmaid]

Dear Hali -i am the manager this lea seems to have gone down the eccers line at the moment

[Guest jenpercy]

Dear Hali -i am the manager this lea seems to have gone down the eccers line at the moment

 

I hope things have improved in our LEA this next time round but when I was RAGed in January, I was told that I couldn't see report until it had beem moderated in April - by which time quite a lot was out of date

[Guest]

Gosh, what is RAG!!?? Thought I had got a handle on all the acronyms but I don't know that one!

[Rea]

RED AMBER GREEN.

Its used to show where your setting is and if it needs help I think, but it hasnt reached us officially yet so I could be totally wrong.

[Guest]

Thanks Rea.

 

Could you 'translate' eccers and quisp for me too while you're it?

[Upsy Daisy]

ECERS - Early Childhood environmental rating scales. Another way of assessing lots of aspects of your setting. It's a good basis for a SEF.

[hali]

Eyqisp is: early years quality improvement support programme

[Upsy Daisy]

Come to think of it, with all of these quality assurance tools available to us we should all be perfect!!!

[Rea]

I think we are which is why they have so many QA schemes, keeping us on our toes!

[Guest]

Hope this works - never done it before!

 

It should be a PDF for EQISP

 

 

Edit: Whoop Whoop it did!!

ey_qisp_bklt_0066908.pdf

Edited November 11, 2010 by gingerbreadman

[Guest]

Thanks, I'm off to chase my LEA as to whether we have a QISP or any other kind of support programme in place.