Guest Posted March 9, 2010 Share Posted March 9, 2010 What to do if a member of staff constantly and consistently says that she can't believe you need a degree to do my job (manager) - scrutinizes everything I do......and says that there is absolutely no point my degree, says I can talk the talk and make the planning all look very pretty for Ofsted purposes......aaaarrrrgggghhhh yes same old member of staff that I have previously mentioned....chip, chip, chip away.......sorry feeling deflated .....I work so hard....just been typing up 23 learning stories ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyMaz Posted March 9, 2010 Share Posted March 9, 2010 Well if she is using the broken record technique, then I would adopt the same approach. I might say something like "yes, I know that people hold these views and it is incredibly tiring for people to be constantly questioning a qualification that has taken such a lot of effort to gain. But isn't it great that now I have the degree no-one else in our setting needs to do it, and we can just concentrate on raising the quality of our provision?" Isn't it a shame that some people are just naturally negative - but she is probably incredibly threatened by you and your knowledge and is feeling very vulnerable. As for Ofsted, I guess the acid test will come at your inspection. I wonder if she'll express these views to Mrs Ofsted? Maz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 9, 2010 Share Posted March 9, 2010 Oh Shirel I feel for you What is wrong with some staff today? A touch of the little green eyed monster? or do they feel threatened? Chin up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 9, 2010 Share Posted March 9, 2010 aaaaw I know I am in such good company here....such empathy...I was fine all day even during the onslaught but finally after doing about three hours work at home and going to a preschool sale of toys for an hour I feel tired and the things she said to me today came back to hit me in the stomach....I know I can handle it, but it is quite draining......she seems to be relentless......thanks for your thoughts you lovely people..xx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyMaz Posted March 9, 2010 Share Posted March 9, 2010 Failing all that, a slap works wonders! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rea Posted March 9, 2010 Share Posted March 9, 2010 Some people do feel threatened by others sucess. Its a shame but instead of getting mad, or letting it drain you, try to pity her lack of understanding. A teacher once said to me when she knew I was doing the DPP, 'we wouldnt even look at someone unless they had done the NVQ'. Pity them, you'll feel loads better Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 9, 2010 Share Posted March 9, 2010 Failing all that, a slap works wonders! I wish I'd taken you on the Childminder conference! After a presentation on training and qualifications someone asked what the point of a degree was to "JUST a childminder" So Shirel, keep smiling - happens to us all! Nona Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 9, 2010 Share Posted March 9, 2010 Just tell her straight, if you dont like the way i run things then you know what to do!!! I dont think i could hold back, if shes constantly moaning it would do my head in YOUR HER BOSS!!!!!! tell her to shut up ( or in a better word please dont say that) or get out if she dont like it and find somewhere else that she likes the look of, the one with the non professional approach Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 9, 2010 Share Posted March 9, 2010 Love it jules! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motherclanger Posted March 9, 2010 Share Posted March 9, 2010 Pity you are bit far from me, I'd come and work for you ! I've just handed my notice in today for the second time, its a very long story so won't bore you all to death ! Its a shame others don't appreciate the hard work you have put in to achieve your degree, I've had to give up doing my foundation degree, which is just as well now that I will no longer in Early Years. It must be very frustrating for you, I only wish we had a conscientious, hard working and dedicated person to run our setting. They are very lucky to have you ! Motherclangerx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 9, 2010 Share Posted March 9, 2010 Maybe its a jealousy thing? Along the same lines, I was on a parenting forum yesterday and a long running thread ensued about the language used in some nurseries. The thread then took a nasty turn and basically became a NN bashing thread where people like us were basically accused of being "thick" . Some parents even went so far as to say that our chosen career was not one they would like for their own children. Was most unpleasant. Degrees and EYPS were called in and basically slated and even those parents who were supportive of our work felt that most of us probably didn't have many GCSEs to begin with, hence we "ended up" in childcare. The difference here is that parents (largely I would assume) don't really know the ins and outs of the job, of the work we do both inside and outside of the setting, and although it doesn't make these kinds of comments acceptable, it is certainly, in my opinion, a bit more understandable than someone actively doing the job and slating someone who is dedicated enough to want to achieve great things, not only in terms of professional qualifications/development but also for the children. Don't let her comments grind you down. You know you're doing a fab job. Don't let her spoil it for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Upsy Daisy Posted March 9, 2010 Share Posted March 9, 2010 I've had to give up doing my foundation degree, which is just as well now that I will no longer in Early Years. Fancy tucking news like this away here, Motherclanger! What a shame you've had to give up on your FD and leave your job. I know from previous threads that you've worked hard on your FD so I hope you'll get an opportunity to have another go at some point in the future. Shirel, don't let her grind you down. Jealousy can make people ugly and thoughtless in their words and their actions. You are in this job because you are good at it and have worked hard to gain the knowledge which helps you to do it so well. Don't let her grind you down. If she persists just tell her that it isn't going to work and you'd prefer it if she concentrated on making sure she is doing her own job to the best of her ability. Maz, shame on you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 9, 2010 Share Posted March 9, 2010 Hi Shirel, I do really feel for you. I don't have any good advice but wanted you to know that I am thinking of you. Your degree has helped you become the practitioner you are today and you should be proud of what you have achieved. Try not to let her get you down (I know its easier said than done though), mrsW.x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyMaz Posted March 9, 2010 Share Posted March 9, 2010 Maz, shame on you! Well of course you know me better than that, Upsy Daisy! I wonder how she would feel if you told her that her level 3 is worthless? Maz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 9, 2010 Share Posted March 9, 2010 Hi Shirel, Maybe time to start dropping some theorists and big words into conversations and staff meetings e.g "Now what schemas have you noticed recently in doo-dah's play?' or 'I was thinking of starting to try and integrate some principles from the Reggio approach, what do you think? or ' How do you feel she's achieving against the Leuven scales of involvement?' etc. Then apply the big slap mentioned earlier..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dublinbay Posted March 10, 2010 Share Posted March 10, 2010 Shirel, please don't let her get to you. You know you are in the right here and you have all of us to attest to that. Could you send her on some bullying training......afterall that is what she is doing here? Perhaps at a staff meeting you could mention verbal bullying and even let your eyes rest on her as you speak. Are you keeping a diary of what she says........maybe worth your while? Whatever happens, you are great at your job and are making a difference. Keep doing it. Ignore what she says and she'll get bored with it soon when she sees it does not effect you. Failing that, use the advice given by Jules and Maz.............. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 10, 2010 Share Posted March 10, 2010 (edited) I wonder how she would feel if you told her that her level 3 is worthless? Guess what she is a level two, a bedgruded qualification that she felt she didnt need to do....thank you so much for all your support....I am going to try to tackle things again today....I have asked to staff to fill in a mini appraisal just to see how things are going (mid school year) and she refused to fill it in yesterday, saying she would prefer to speak to the committee about how she feels, I asked the committee chair if he was available today and he said he would speak to her next week, he was upset about what she has said but I am not going to wait - we have a staff meeting tonight and I am going to ask her to speak to me and tell me all her concerns I am probably asking for trouble but I need to clarify and type down what she says as she says it as a record and a 'supervisionary' type appraisal and hopefully give myself the opportunnity to finally say a few things myself, so far I have taken it all on my shoulders, I believe remained, professional by staying quiet but actually a bit daft too cause it keeps happening and happening and I, once again need to be proactive and assertive (not my best qualities) p.s my reading material by my bed is......Effective Leadership in the Early Years Sector by Iram-Siraj Blatchford...interesting ammunition! Edited March 10, 2010 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 10, 2010 Share Posted March 10, 2010 Just wanted to send a hug Shirel and hope it went okay today. We have a vacancy if you get too fed up!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 10, 2010 Share Posted March 10, 2010 (edited) Please don't take this the wrong way Shirrel but I could easily be your member of staff I am so disatisfied with my role at the moment. I don't want to excuse what the person is doing or saying. But by the same token the way this thread has gone I just wanted to add balance. All levels of qualification can be unhappy with the way things are. My chip is definately getting worse because people who should manage are not listening or giving any support. I do think your member of staff needs more notice to prepare for a meeting with you as you could make the situation worse. Arrange a meeting giving her at least 24 hours notice and ask her to make some notes of her issues. Try to keep it private and be discrete.Please listen to her and try find out where she's coming from. You may find she's your biggest alli and just feels undervalued. Edited March 10, 2010 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 10, 2010 Share Posted March 10, 2010 Thanks biccy but I didnt go ahead with the meeting because I didnt have the guts....especially when I was greeted at the staff meeting with a query that completely undermined me and was cruel... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anju Posted March 10, 2010 Share Posted March 10, 2010 I was greeted at the staff meeting with a query that completely undermined me and was cruel... oh no Shirel, hope you are OK? some staff are a total nightmare and no amount of fantastic management skills will make a blind bit of difference. I had someone like that 3 years ago and thank goodness she finally got the message that despite her bullying, I wasn't leaving, she WOULD have to do a level 2 course and she left. It has left me very very cautious about who I recruit but of course there's often little choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 10, 2010 Share Posted March 10, 2010 Shirel - are you ok? It certainly sounds as if you need to tell your Chair exactly what has been going on and what this person has been saying to/about you - you certainly need his support!! Nona Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rea Posted March 10, 2010 Share Posted March 10, 2010 Agree with nona shirel, you need to tell someone that you're being bullied and made to feel rubbish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 10, 2010 Share Posted March 10, 2010 I am fine thanks....I couldn't manage to type much more than I did earlier - but I have had some time and been food shopping, put some washing on and read my son his bedtime story....and now I am back in a better frame of mind.....basically the staff meeting was interrupted several times with the usual onslaught of questions which I was ok with, getting used to it really, and then something was said by the member of staff, along the lines of implying that I was lying about an incident today...I was shocked and so were other staff, it was a weird, unexpected turn of events and I amicably suggested that we all meet again next week and leave it for today as I felt I was prepared for everything else except that ! Tonight I have written up my personal reflective diary and will face another day tomorrow, yes I probably need to talk to the committee and have emailed the Chair just to give him the heads up that we need to meet......I know that when I left the setting today....5 out of the 6 staff will support me 100% and I have the support here and so I am sure I will be fine...in fact I feel a bit daft posting - but 'tis nice to know you are all there.... THANKS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rea Posted March 10, 2010 Share Posted March 10, 2010 Dont feel daft shirel, you needed to at the time and now you're feeling better, so its good that you did, that and reading a bed time story always helps, I miss doing that. You have the support of your staff too, so that can only be a good thing. Bullying is the worst isnt it. I'm more inclinded to go with Maz's suggestion of a slap or jules01 suggestion that you 'just tell her straight'. Neither are really practical but I think you do need to sit her down and ask her straight just what her problem is. Hope the rest of your week goes well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 10, 2010 Share Posted March 10, 2010 Tonight I have written up my personal reflective diary and will face another day tomorrow, yes I probably need to talk to the committee and have emailed the Chair just to give him the heads up that we need to meet......I know that when I left the setting today....5 out of the 6 staff will support me 100% and I have the support here and so I am sure I will be fine...in fact I feel a bit daft posting - but 'tis nice to know you are all there.... THANKS Shirel, glad to hear you're OK but really feel that what you are being subjected to is NOT OK! You're certainly not daft for posting on here - just re-read the responses and counted how many times verbal bullying has been mentioned. Even giving this person the benefit of the doubt that they're feeling threatened or undermined doesn't, in my opinion, excuse their behaviour or their attitude towards you. I'm glad you have the support of the other staff and hope they'll stand up and be counted when you make the Chair and commitee aware of this situation. Keep smiling, keep making notes and see what tomorrow brings! Thinking of you, Nona X Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyMaz Posted March 10, 2010 Share Posted March 10, 2010 It does sound to me as if the time has come to tell her in very plain language how you expect her to behave in future, and agree some ground rules for your future relationship. Think about what you'd do if a member of your team came to you complaining of a colleague treating her in the way you're being treated. What would you do then? I don't think for one moment you'd think it would be ok just to let things drift - you'd want to protect your colleague from behaviour such as this. You deserve as much protection and support as any other team member. Whatever this person's problems are this kind of behaviour is inexcusable. Here's hoping you get it sorted. Enough's enough. Maz x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dublinbay Posted March 11, 2010 Share Posted March 11, 2010 I second what Maz has said. I just wanted to wish you well for today with a huge ((((((((((hug))))))))) Hope it's a better day! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 11, 2010 Share Posted March 11, 2010 (edited) To finish this thread I went in today and had a loooong conversation/meeting with the member of staff.....I have to admit I think I was misinterpreting some of the points she has been making and also I have been taking some of the stuff too personally...I am still getting to know her ....I made some valid points about being the manager and was as assertive as I could be, but there was never a point when we argued or I felt there was genuine antagonism on either side....gosh we are so grown up! It was a good communication and we have an understanding now that I need to speak up and tell her if I feel offended by her comments when they happen, she needs to apologise and make an effort to shut up sometimes and not question everything (she said this is how she is about everything in life and she drives herself mad sometimes) - the comments about the degree and higher qualified staff stem from her whole disbelief in the EYP and the system, I can't change how she feels about that but she said it was not personal and apologised for offending me, she made a good case for what she believes in and I stated to her that she has to believe in what we are doing regardless of government targets etc, we also have a legal obligation to follow our statutory framework and if it grinds her down so much maybe she should reconsider her career, she looked tearful and said she loves what she does....we finished agreeing to keep a good communication going and be honest and open with each other. I thank you all wholeheartedly again for your support....I am learning so much about myself and managing a team is difficult but I still love my job....when I start posting otherwise is the time to stop.... Edited March 11, 2010 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnyday Posted March 11, 2010 Share Posted March 11, 2010 Brilliant - you obviously handled the situation really well.........sometimes it needs this sort of conversation to 'clear the air' and nothing else will do. Well done ......onwards and upwards! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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