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Farewell Nvqs


anju
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Did you all know that NVQs in early years will no longer exist from september 2010? neither will the Certificate in Pre-school Practice or Diploma in Pre-school Practice. the new Diplomas will be more generic and cover children and young people with the level 3 one having a specific module in early years. The level 2 one however will have no specific early years content so I can't imagine wanting to employ someone with that in the future.

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I heard it today from a childcare workforce development manager at our local early years network meeting, so it is official as far as I am concerned. he also said that the new diplomas will not be only workplace assessed (like NVQs often are), there will be a compulsory element of classroom practice. This will prove problematic if you want an existing member of staff to do one as you would have to release them to do the classroom based stuff. I can see the advantages but from a human resources point of view it could be tricky.

 

It was news to me too! Don't know how that fits in with the welfare requirements...

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I know that there are changes afoot - but what you're saying is news to me too. Which authority are you in, anju?

 

I'd be asking for the weblink to where this has been announced so that I could look at the details myself - but then I've become very cynical of late and only really believe something when I've read it myself. :o

 

I wonder if this is a local twist where your Local Authority has made decisions about which courses to fund? A friend of mine teaches on the DPP so I've asked her what she knows too!

 

NVQ is not for everyone - some of us need to go to college each week so I'd be very unhappy to see these courses discontinued. xD

 

Maz

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I agree with Maz about NVQ not being for everyone. However, I am one of those who (until recently) couldn't bear the thought of sitting in a college classroom for hours on end. I needed to be working and without NVQ, I undoubtedly would never have qualified to work in early years.

 

It's a shame for those people who are like me (pleased to say I'm not like this anymore but it has taken a looooong time)

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We're all different aren't we Clare - and as you say the NVQ can be excellent for experienced practioners who can't be released from college to study. Mind you, if all colleges are as bad as the one I've been dealing with then NVQs have a very short shelf life indeed. xD

 

My teacher friend is going to fill me in on the DPP/CPP situation later. Am waiting with bated breath... :o

 

Maz

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funnily enough did a presentation relating to the legislation behind this at uni two weeks ago...

The government are changing nvq's so that the children and young peoples workforce can be more integrated and flexible as part of the 2020 workforce strategy.

The government want all new training qual's to have basic units for 0-16 and then depending on which sector you are working in you can specialise e.g. early years. The idea is to make crossing professions easier for instance from children's residential home to pre-school...the whole integrated working ethos. This will also support training pathways.

They are also currently consulting on the Common Core to update it so watch this space for an updated version, I was lucky enough to be part of a consultation group with my uni which was interesting to unpick sections relevant to EY

The new Qualifications Framework is out in April 2010 but you can have a look at it online and it gives you all the relevant info- all the different levels of qualifications etc. There are several different qualification frameworks, some are more relevant than others

 

here are some links for more information, the 2020 document is worth downloading too as although it doesn't have a great deal on EY sector there are some interesting points to keep an eye on! you can download it on ECM website

 

DCSF info on 2020 children and young people's workforce strategy

Edited by ExtraordinaryChicken
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thanks for that EC will look later.

 

cupcake, I am not scaremongering - this is the information I was given by someone senior in the LA and I think it's worth discussing on the forum. I have left him a message to give me more info and a link so I will let you all know when I get a response.

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thanks for that EC will look later.

 

cupcake, I am not scaremongering - this is the information I was given by someone senior in the LA and I think it's worth discussing on the forum. I have left him a message to give me more info and a link so I will let you all know when I get a response.

 

 

Hi,

 

At no point in my reply did i suggest you were scaremongering, I was just stating my position as a manager who has enrolled staff onto an NVQ course starting in Sept 2010, which would suggest that NVQ's arent going anywhere just yet. I think your thread title 'farewell NVQ's' was misleading, I appreciate what your LEA advisor has said to you, however I have yet to find anything official on this in the public domain, that's what I meant by dealing with facts, so as not to demoralise or worry NVQ candidates who are either excited about the prospect of starting an NVQ or candidates who have worked or who are still working very hard for their qualification.

 

Claire x

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Having spoken to my teacher friend, she has confirmed that there are big changes on the way, with the new Level 2 and Level 3 qualifications being a mixture of classroom hours and workplace assessments. As I understand it there will be one generic qualification, with learners being able to choose the modules which are most appropriate to their job function. I forget what the title of the qualification will be - something like Children and Young People's Development, and there will be a Certificate (level 2) and Diploma (level 3).

 

These changes are due to be implemented in September this year (what is it with all these new initiatives coming along in September?) so there will be an intervening period when existing courses are completed, I imagine. However if I were considering undertaking any Level 2 or Level 3 training I would hang on rather than do a qualification that is about to be made obsolete.

 

I wonder what colleges will do next term, and what advice candidates are being offered right now by training providers up and down the land?

 

Maz

 

PS This is just what I've gathered from a very informal chat with a friend - I can't guarantee that I've understood it all correctly, and we haven't been told anything official at all by our Local Authority.

 

PPS I wonder how this will affect those people contemplating undertaking the A1 assessor's award? Can anyone tell me if that is a generic course or is it specifically tailored to assessing the existing NVQ courses?

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Having spoken to my teacher friend, she has confirmed that there are big changes on the way, with the new Level 2 and Level 3 qualifications being a mixture of classroom hours and workplace assessments. As I understand it there will be one generic qualification, with learners being able to choose the modules which are most appropriate to their job function. I forget what the title of the qualification will be - something like Children and Young People's Development, and there will be a Certificate (level 2) and Diploma (level 3).

 

These changes are due to be implemented in September this year (what is it with all these new initiatives coming along in September?) so there will be an intervening period when existing courses are completed, I imagine. However if I were considering undertaking any Level 2 or Level 3 training I would hang on rather than do a qualification that is about to be made obsolete.

 

I wonder what colleges will do next term, and what advice candidates are being offered right now by training providers up and down the land?

 

Maz

 

PS This is just what I've gathered from a very informal chat with a friend - I can't guarantee that I've understood it all correctly, and we haven't been told anything official at all by our Local Authority.

 

PPS I wonder how this will affect those people contemplating undertaking the A1 assessor's award? Can anyone tell me if that is a generic course or is it specifically tailored to assessing the existing NVQ courses?

 

 

Thanks Maz, its very confusing, I phoned the college where a member of staff is enrolled for Sept and was told they hadnt heard anything. If this does come into affect, will an NVQ 3 still be recognised, or will another qualification be needed.

 

I am going to phone my EY advisor tomorrow to try and get some clarity on this issue.

 

Claire x

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I was just re-reading your other post again. Claire - its true about there not being anything official available. I looked on the CACHE website last night but couldn't find anything at all about it on there. The information I got was from a friend who was at a staff meeting at college.

 

I imagine that the existing NVQ 2/3 or CPP/DPP will still be valid - when you think how many people have these qualifications it would be an impossible task to get everyone re-trained even if everyone was willing to do it.

 

I guess it is very much a case of 'watch this space'.

 

Maz

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We are [college] still taking on NVQs for easter start, as it will still remain as a valid level 2 or 3

I know its hard to say exactly because your meeting was cancelled - but do you think your college will tell candidates that they are undertaking a qualification that is about to be superceded?

 

Maz

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Looking at Mundia's link, it could be that NVQ's are being rebranded rather than superceded maybe. So candidates will have more choice over what modules to do,which is relevant to their setting etc. I just wish when changes are imminent rather than it being drip fed to us, they would just let all settings know, either directly through EY advisor or in our newsletters.

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I know its hard to say exactly because your meeting was cancelled - but do you think your college will tell candidates that they are undertaking a qualification that is about to be superceded?

 

Maz

 

 

Yes, they are informed........but with guarenteed funding they are happy to complete current NVQs!!

Not so sure about the people that might need to 'self fund' though.

I feel some just think 'better the devil you know', and at the end of the day it will still remain valid at whichever level they've done/doing.

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I feel some just think 'better the devil you know', and at the end of the day it will still remain valid at whichever level they've done/doing.

I agree - I've been the guinea pig who did the course the first time it was offered (twice) and it can be jolly uncomfortable! :o

 

Maz

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Our county are no longer funding NVQ3 training as they say they are waiting for the new qualification to come in.

I started a thread about this a couple of months ago when I read some stuff in nursery World in November but it is amazing that colleges and workplaces don't seem to know anything about it. The colleges are still putting the courses together so no-one knows what's happening.

 

Personally I don't think it's a great idea to have such a generic qualification. If you are trained for all areas then I think it is more likely that you will be a Jack of all trades. I wonder how many people do actually switch around from Social work to pre-school or Youth work to Pre-school?

 

I wonder if the generic qualification will mean a generic pay structure, similar to the way pay has changed for support staff in schools?

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Personally I don't think it's a great idea to have such a generic qualification. If you are trained for all areas then I think it is more likely that you will be a Jack of all trades.

I got the impression that the course will be tailored to your needs - so that you can pick your modules to suit your own requirements rather than undertake a generic course. As an employer I wouldn't be too keen on a staff member doing a course that didn't enable them to develop the skills needed to work with young children and their families.

 

Maz

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Who knows what's going on but from a course I went on they said there would be about 50% compulsory shared modules like safeguarding, health and safety, working with families and other agencies etc. and then optional age /role specific ones.

 

I just think even though these type of areas are generic it is more valuable to be discussing them in a learning group with people who work in a similar field. You then don't waste time listening to other people's issues that aren't relevant to your age group.

I think it's really valuable to learn from other early years workers on courses and wonder if this aspect would be diluted on the generic modules?

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if you look up information on the different new qualifications framework you will find more info... i can upload/pm some info i found for my uni presentation on this issue?

 

heres a very old article from TES

TES NVQs' future in the balance

 

The CWDC has some very good information on their site:

" Q: Will NVQ’s be on the new qualifications framework?

A:

No, NVQ’s will disappear as move from the National Qualifications Framework (NQF) and over to the Qualifications and Credit Framework (QCF).

 

Qualifications on the QCF will have the titling system of Awards, Certificates and Diplomas. The move from award to certificate to diploma defines the increasing credit size.

 

The process of bringing all vocational qualifications into the new framework is well underway and by 2010, it is expected that all vocational qualifications will be transferred or redesigned to the QCF including NVQ’s.

 

By that point the QCF will have replaced the current NQF for vocational qualifications.

 

It is important to note that learners who have recently gained NVQ’s or are studying currently will not have to repeat learning."

 

CWDC FAQ page

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Pauline Jones from the CWDC rote a detailed article on February's EYE magazine, explaining the imminent demise of the NVQ. Here are some quotes;

 

Through the new simplified structure, workers will be able to identify opportunities for progression to level 3 and pathways towards foundation degrees and EYPS.

 

At the heart of these changes is the introduction of a new level 3 Diploma for the Children's and Young People's Workforce This new qualification will replace all other level 3 qualifications across the early years, children's social care and learning and development support services, and will be relevant to everyone working in the early years delivering the EYFS.

 

CWDC has taken the best parts of the currents NVQs and Vocational related Qualifications (VRQs) to create a qualification that is flexible and meets the needs of employers.The target learners will be 16-19 and post 19 year olds for both college and work-based routes.

 

I've been worrying about this for a while: not least because I haven't finished writing the NVQ guidance here on the forum! :o

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At the heart of these changes is the introduction of a new level 3 Diploma for the Children's and Young People's Workforce This new qualification will replace all other level 3 qualifications across the early years, children's social care and learning and development support services, and will be relevant to everyone working in the early years delivering the EYFS.

Noticed an ad today in Nursery World for an e-learning programme for this Diploma course. I have never used this company so I'm not recommending it but it might be worth going to their website to have a look at Laser Learning Ltd

 

Maz

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we were told that both level 2 and 3 would be generic but only the level 3 will contain early years specific modules so I would probably not be interested in someone with the level 2 for the reasons already stated.

 

i know it must be demoralising for people about to start or half way through an NVQ. probably better to know what's going on though so you can make a choice.

 

our LA are stopping funding as well edlee until the new diploma comes in.

 

I am an NVQ assessor (although i do very little assessing - no time!) and have heard nothing at all from the training provider I work for who only does workplace assessed NVQs!

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I am currently studying for NVQ level 4 and have recently been told it has to be finished by June as NVQ's will be superseded by September. My assessor has assured me that the level 4 will still have been worth achieving - it will probably have a points value towards the EY foundation degree. It all seems a bit vague but I hope I am not wasting my time as it's hard work when working as well!

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