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Super Numerary Manager


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Can I ask how many settings (particularly committee run pre-schools) have their manager as super numerary, not included in the ratios, for some or all of the time? If only some of the time, how many hours roughly in a week does s/he have managerial time? Is this in the office or still in the room? Do you also have an administrator (paid or voluntary) to deal with other stuff like admissions, invoices and filing? And does your deputy manager also have any out of ratios paid time for management?

 

Thanks.

 

(Sorry, I only ever seem to come on the forum with a whole list of questions!) and PS - if there is already a thread on basically this subject, please can you point me towards it?

Edited by Guest
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I work in a full day care setting as the manager I am super numerary, I work on a shift based 38 hours a week. The owner of the setting deals with the finances of the setting but I have to produce the invoice and lay payment letters for all the parents. I am mainly in the office, but I do cover some times for lunches and staff cover. I hope this helps and I have been able to answer some of your questions

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When we move to our new premises in the grounds of the local school with a children's centre attached I will become supernumerary. My hours will be from 9-5.30 (the pre school closes at 3.15pm), my position will also be salaried, which is being negotiated at the moment. We are committee run and employ an administrator, who deals with all the invoices, funding letters etc. At present I am also a key person as well as play leader to 12 children. I am not sure at present how I will split my day from being with the children to being in the office. The main reason I wanted to be supernumary was to enable me to spend more time with staff on training issues and developing the pre school, whilst also being available for all parents and other professionals without compromising our ratio's. I plan to set up inhouse training for inset days in line with the school and promote parents workshops etc, but mostly to develop best practice with staff and still be hands on with the children. I think my office time will be when we are closed from 3.15 until 5.30, as I love working with the children, being supernumary will also ensure that should any staff member be sick or called away because their own child is ill, I will be able to step in. I am really looking forward to getting all of the paperwork out of my own house and into the setting, where I will have a better work life balance which is also important.

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I was in Charity run setting was open 2 sessions a day with lunch club, now all day.

 

As manager was I was not supernumerary, we felt that they needed to be hands on and part of the day to day routine, I did all the jobs everyone else did. (including cleaning, snacks and the rubbish jobs we had to do)

 

But I had 6 hours a week paid for manager duties, so 1 day off site paid.. to do all the paperwork.. rotas, registers, letters, admissions, funding, staffing, planning etc etc.

 

All had 1 hour a week on site for their paperwork, childrens files and planning. so this was an additional hour for me too.

 

I also did the accounts with payments invoices wages but they now have a book keeper to do that role.

 

They still work in the same way.. ! day a week offsite

 

a lot of the jobs like admissions we felt we better done by the staff/manager as parents often walked in asking and we could offer them any places we had to start next day if appropriate. -parents often liked to see the person to deal with and know they could find them everyday.

 

Inge

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I manage a committee run pre school and have 1 morning a week (4 hours) to do paperwork at home. That's planning, training, home visits, admissions, funding, policies, liasing with chair etc but we do also have a book keeper who sends out fee invoices and wages. I would cover for staff absence on that day as well if necessary. Otherwise i'm in there as part of the staff ratios, am also a keyperson. We don't really get regular time for doing children's records but would pay for this once a term when we have parent meetings. I'm also paid for a couple of hours over half term (joke ..... how much time have i spent on pre school this week already?)

 

wish I could have an office at pre school as the paperwork is taking over my house!

 

Jo

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I work in a committee run group. I am out of ratio on one morning per week, deputy runs, and can be if needs be one other morning (although often this seems to be forgotten!) Neither myself or my Deputy, who does the NEG funding & admissions, are paid any extra for admin work outside of the session. However I dont have any key children and am looking at negotiating one day (4 hours) per month for myself and 3/4 per year for Deputy. It will all depend on our finances next financial year.

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As a manager of a committee run group, I currently have 7 hours for admin and planning. All staff also have 1.25 hours for keyperson time. We also have a paid administrator for 10 hours per week.

 

 

As manager of committee run preschool I have 3 hours out of ratio for planning etc, I am keyworker to 7 children (which is less than other staff who do as many hours as me). We currently pay an administrator who does loads but is only paid for 12 hours a week. I am new to the role, and without her would have a hell of a lot more to do, so am currently pushing for her to get paid for 18 hours if at all possible.

 

Clare

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I manage a pack away i am not supernumeracy, cant afford an extra member of staff at min but i do not keywork.

I manage to do little in the mornings but i fund mostly im showing people round, helping my staff with planning, helping students and answering the telephone, training issues etc. All of these things are important as a manager also i am in the hall so able to keep an eye on the running of the setting and i also know my children very well.

 

I need a morning paid at home once a week but that sadly does not happen.

so i find i am doing the rest of paperwork at home, I am paid for 3 hours at home but not enough (story of everyone i expect who works in early years)

 

I stay once a week at the setting to file stuff away, difficult when you have other hall users coming in!!

find i am fighting with the league of health and beauty(dont ask), floral arrangers and cross stitichers :o

Edited by Suer
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I'm manager of committee run pre school and I am with the children all the time, but then we only have one room so there is nowhere for me to go. I have 2 hours per week paid for planning which I do at home and all other admin is done at home which counts as overtime- usually 8-10 hours a week in my own time and more during holidays. But I do get paid for it.

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Guest babyjane31

I am manager of committee run pre-school and am not included in ratios and do not have any key children. That said our committee is a committee in name only and I do everything by myself!! ( I know many of you do this too, so I am lucky) That said I do often cover staff to allow then extra non contact time or to release them for training during working hours as I love spending time with the kids and really miss it sometimes.

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Committee run

Pack away

Supernumeracy, although there always seems to be somebody off!

Not a keyperson

No office, so all admin done at home, where it has totally taken over all the families life :o

No administrator

Committee are in name only

Am paid 1 hour per week to do planning, policies, food shopping, ordering of supplies, fees, funding just about everything except children's folders.

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Pack away pre-school I am manager / owner as Suer put not supernumeracy but try VERY hard to get a day off a week to do paperwork IT DOESN'T happen.

My children parents and staff are priority so I tend to come in for them on allocated day off's. So lucky to have a very understanding family and do most of the paperwork at home. If I have a paperwork day I will set up at work 7am leave at 9.30 and start paperwork by 9.40 (once coffee is on) I generally finishish at 5.30 when family starts to come home! :wacko: But the pre-school is open 9-1 so as you can calculate much longer hours than if I was with the children (Guess where I would rather be?) xD

 

I pay our wages and can not afford to pay extra for this time xD I would much rather have staff working with very good ratios so the children are safe and achieving, staff are then happy and everyone is happy (well thats the plan) :( and as you know all good plans :(

 

However i love my job paperwork :rolleyes: , phone calls :unsure: key files, training etc etc etc

If there was more money we would all get paid for this time but that is out of our hands :o

 

Lifes too short - So what ever you do 'do your best' and there is always tomorrow :( (even if its a panic to get it done)

 

Sue

Edited by Bigsue
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Thanks so much for all of your replies - very helpful in my thought processes! Our manager has some hours out of ratio this year for the first time so we're moving in the right direction. Interesting to see how many are not included as key person, or at least have reduced numbers of key children. Something to think about ...

 

Thanks again.

 

:o

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on the plus side of working as non super numeracy is as Big sue says we get to be with children a big big plus

and also as im pack away i have 3 offices, how fantastic , the hall , the vestry office and my house :(xD:o

Edited by Suer
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I am the manager of a pack away setting, I am not supernumeracy, I have a group of 14 key children, I maintain the register, do the funding (including that stupid census thing in January), do admissions, do the invoices and collect the fees, write policies, prepare staff wages, shopping for the setting snacks etc, responsible for staff training as well as my own, oh and I'm the SENCO.

 

Iam also totally useless at delegating!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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I must be one of the lucky ones (took about 18 yrs to get there though) some of you dont have it so good, i manage a committee run pre-school and all my hours are supernumerary (only cover staff absence if necessary, but not often as we have quite a high staff ratio too)

 

are your committees in a position to spend more on staff but just dont want to ?

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Our committee are very cautious, a couple of years ago we almost closed down because we didn't have any money at all. Nowadays they insist on having at least 20 thousand in the bank at all times to cover redundancy for staff. They are being very cautious as I have worked it out and it certainly wouldn't be over 15 thousand.

 

I love having contact with the children but inorder for me to do that I have to do all paperwork etc in my own time :o

 

Debbie

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The committee should certainly have a redundancy contingency. If you go on to the HMRC site there used to be a redundancy ready reckoner which allowed you to put input each member of staff's pay, hours, length of service to calculate what redundancy would be to enable the committee to make an informed decision. In my last setting we had a redundancy account with £4,000 set aside, we had 5 staff with differing lengths of service, some many years. Obviously the amount will depend on circumstances but £20,000 seems a lot to be sitting on.

 

Your committee should also have a reserves policy stating what would happen in the event of your reserves falling below a certain level ie extra marketing, contact SureStart to see if there is any funding available and what will happen if your reserves exceed a certain amount.

 

We also had a reserve account for the building fund for unforseen circumstances.

 

Hope that helps.

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thanks Deb, that is certainly helpful, I calculated our redundancy on my wages as manager and my length of service 10 years and my age 43, 1 member of staff has been there as long as myself and the same age, the rest slightly less and a few years younger.

 

Debbie

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