Please Help

[Guest]

Hello - sorry to be a pain- but desperately need an issue ironing out ASAP.

 

We regard ourselves as a 'sessional' pre school as we open for 2.5 hours per session 5 mornings and 2 afternoons per week - children do not stay for lunch. I believed under the old Standards we could remain sessional as long as we didn't open continuously for more than 4 hours in one day. If we did open for more than four hours in one day we would be classed as full daycare. I am really trying to find where in the EYFS it states that this is still the case or is it not any more? If so why are there different Ofsted registration fees for 'sessional' and full daycare'. I have an issue 'bubbling under the surface' at work where I need to get my facts straight.

We have been told that we can open for a 6 hour day with the same children attending for the whole 6 hours and remain sessional - is this true? PLEASE HELP - I know you will - I am going mad trying to find it in the EYFS Welfare requirements.

[HappyMaz]

The old terms 'sessional' and 'full day care' don't really feature in Ofsted registrations any more, although they are still used to describe the type of provision settings provide.

 

Here's a link to the page on the Ofsted website that explains the different registrations, and where you can go for more information.

 

Maz

[Guest]

The old terms 'sessional' and 'full day care' don't really feature in Ofsted registrations any more, although they are still used to describe the type of provision settings provide.

 

Here's a link to the page on the Ofsted website that explains the different registrations, and where you can go for more information.

 

Maz

Thanks Maz - so if we were to open for a 6 hour day would we have to pay a higher rate of Ofsted fee? Sorry - thought I knew what I was doing and now am completely befuddled! So how do Ofsted Inspections operate - what will they inspect above the current 2.5 hours?

[HappyMaz]

Thanks Maz - so if we were to open for a 6 hour day would we have to pay a higher rate of Ofsted fee?

Here's the information about registration fees:-

 

"£30 for childcare providers on non-domestic or domestic premises who operate for three or more hours each day, but less than five days a week and/or less than 45 weeks a year and who were registered on or after 1 September 2008"

 

So I think you would pay the lower registration fee, if you open less than 45 weeks a year.

 

So how do Ofsted Inspections operate - what will they inspect above the current 2.5 hours?

 

As for inspections, I have yet to be inspected under the new regime so I can't really comment. I don't know if there's a minimum or maximum time allowed for an Ofsted inspection - I just imagined they stuck around til they'd seen all they need to in order to make a pronouncement! Perhaps someone in the know will come along and share their expertise!

 

Maz

[diesel10]

Hi

 

That is still correct re sessional and day care.

 

I am sure the inspections are still 2 mornings (2 hours each) although this is due to change to 1 morning.

 

If you are not sure, ring them and ask, they are really helpful.

Edited January 21, 2010 by diesel10

[Guest]

Thank you Diesel

- anyone been through a change from 2.5 hours to a 6 hr day recently? if so how does it work in practice - how do you keep the children occupied all that time?

[Guest]

sorry myhenroxanne, not changed our hours recently but watching this thread with interest as considering opening at least one afternoon in September. mrsW.x

[Inge]

I worked in a setting which changed a year ago now,

 

it was easy to do, parents choose how long children stay, at the time it was 2.5 hrs then lunch club of 1hr and then afternoon session.. lunch club they could do half hour or full our either at end or beginning of each session...

 

currently they now have 3hr sessions, they looked at more flexibility but it really was not practical, leaving empty spaces they could not use, staffing issues and so much more. they get 3hr funded sessions now.

 

it is not hard to keep children busy or occupied, not many stay all day and when they do it may be for 1 day a week, routine is the same, they have to ensure am and pm story are different ans as it is continuous provision the children choose a lot of what they do. Any focus activity is the same for the day, and we found they may often access it twice, or wait until larer to do it. As children change mid day they have a second group to play with in the afternoon so thier play may change... they just ensure there is somewhere to ensure they have a quiet time and a place which is quiet should they fall asleep or need a sleep .. which more did than they expected.

 

thy also have after school club and some of the children occasionally stay for that too...and they are joined by the older school children.

 

Inge

 

forgot to say we had always been a 2 session a day sessional setting so it was a natural progression once eyfs came in and we were allowed to.

Edited January 22, 2010 by Inge

[Guest]

Thanks Inge

Am I right in assuming that you had to contact Ofsted to inform them of the changes? and did they reinspect? or require some additional stuff for children who stay all day - like the place to rest for instance?

It's all moving a bit fast here - committee meeting next wed evening to discuss pros and cons with a view to implementing it very soon.

[Guest]

We changed from 4 3hr mornings to 5 3hr mornings last year and weren't reinspected. I just had to inform Ofsted in writing.

[Inge]

Thanks Inge

Am I right in assuming that you had to contact Ofsted to inform them of the changes? and did they reinspect? or require some additional stuff for children who stay all day - like the place to rest for instance?

It's all moving a bit fast here - committee meeting next wed evening to discuss pros and cons with a view to implementing it very soon.

 

 

all we did was inform Ofsted in writing, they asked for information on how when increasing our hours children's needs would all be met, things like how we would provide a rest space and how we would handle it, also about how we would manage a child who became ill and we could not get parents.. and we sent in a proposed timetable for the day.. they also wanted to make sure we had consulted parents and that it was what they wanted..

 

they did not reinspect or even visit... got approval within 2 weeks of sending in the letter, not sure if this was unusual, I felt it was faster than I expected.

 

We started by questionnaire to parents, then ringing Ofsted who told us what to put in the letter , asking for a variation in our registration... I was told there were forms on the website to do this but never found any and when we asked they said letter was ok.

 

It was the best thing we ever did, could not do it before eyfs or would have done it ages ago.. now they are always full and can offer more flexibility even though they decided to keep it in 3hr blocks. as children can stay all day.

 

Inge

 

forgot to say we could not open full day without the new registration cert to display.. this is what took ages to come and they sent the wrong one first time so we had to wait for yet another.. dont know if this rule still applies it was at beginning of eyfs we changed.

Edited January 22, 2010 by Inge

[Guest]

Thanks to everyone for their replies.

 

I contacted Ofsted today for advice on procedures I need to take to expand provision from 2.5hr to 6 hr day and was informed that I can just go ahead and do it - as I am registered on three registers. They took my settings details and said....

I do not need to inform them in writing

I have to ensure that there is always NVQ level 3 present

I have to ensure that 50% of other staff are qualified to minimum level 2

I have to ensure that there is always a paediatric qualified staff member present

I have to ensure that I am fully compliant with EYFS requirements

 

is it really that easy? No checks or anything? I can't quite believe that! .......?!(speechless!)