Day Nursery Closed - Child Images

[Alison]

Ive just been watchng the news and I wonder if this was happenng in the setting then "what were the rest of the staff doing?" we have an open door policy all toilets and nappy changing areas and cameras are only for use in play areas inside and out, never toilets

 

I have always said that CRB only proves a person has not been caught..... Ian Huntly had a record and still got through a CRB check because of loops holes, we cannt be 100% certain of anyone.

 

regardless of any more facts the woman has been found guilty by the media, why do we need the police and justice system? mud sticks this woman will never work with children ever again (probably a good thng!?!?!)

 

..... but I do feel sorry her poor children.

[HappyMaz]

mud sticks this woman will never work with children ever again (probably a good thng!?!?!)

...but you said it yourself: Ian Huntley slipped through the net simply by changing his name. That's why the ISA is being brought in.

 

Maz

[Rea]

According to Nursery world the setting is a not for profit organisation led by trustees. I hope its not trustees like our playgroup, a bunch of mom and dads on a committee. How on earth would they be feeling? Out of their depth I expect and thoroughly scared.

 

I'm opposed to ID cards on the principle that I have to pay for it (£80 I heard) but it must be preferable to a piece of paper thats no use after the day its printed. A card with bio-metric information that can be esily updated and scanned must surely be a better system, although probably a very expensive one.

[Upsy Daisy]

According to Nursery world the setting is a not for profit organisation led by trustees. I hope its not trustees like our playgroup, a bunch of mom and dads on a committee. How on earth would they be feeling? Out of their depth I expect and thoroughly scared.

 

Having had cause to look into the risks and responsibilities you take on as a trustee I would really not want to be in their shoes right now! Their problems will not just be related to feeling morally responsible for what happened to those children (which would be bad enough). They could be at real risk of being held personally financially responsible for compensation.

[catma]

regardless of any more facts the woman has been found guilty by the media, why do we need the police and justice system?

 

Well irrespective of the media she is not guilty until found so by a court of law and by her peers in the jury, which is why we have a judicial system that means we can in the main have fair and free trials. It is that judge and jury media circus that drove a young teacher in a school near me to commit suicide after false allegations were made by 2 children that were later found to be completely untrue. Too late for the dead young person though. Because mud does stick. even if you are not guilty.

 

No check however thorough will ever predict actions in the future that a person may take. She may have had a completely unblemished record until this point in time. How would an employer know that someone might do something??? Surely all we can really do is ensure systems such as photo cards being removed and checked, no mobiles during working hours etc which are all systems people already have are followed and reviewed with thoroughness.

 

Of course this is a very serious situation and one that I do not take lightly at all and I do sympathise with the parents of the nursery children primarily because they will not know the absolute truth of the situation and it must all be ifs buts and maybes right now, but I do feel very strongly about the presumption of innocence which is one of the cornerstones of our society.

[Guest]

I agree with you Catma, innocent until proven guilty. The backlash of media coverage will impact on ALL nursery settings, and parents confidence in leaving their children at ANY preschool / day Nursery in the future. Catma that is a very sad story about the wrongfully accused teacher.

Although a sexist view the additional horror is that it is a woman who is a suspected perpetrator, and the concern (putting it mildly) that she has been in her position for 3 years.

 

I do hope that if she is guilty that she pleads guilty and brings to law ALL other persons involved. As well as the children, parents and community, my heart goes out to the other staff and trustees within the setting. They must be going through an emotional nightmare, asking themselves how did it happen, how did they not know. Will they be suspected too?

 

I also hope that the parents get good counselling support, to enable them to support their children through this, not only any children directly affected but any that were not victims of this despicable child trade (which is basically I think what it is, the selling of images). Whilst thinking about this today I thought of the 'ripple' impact if children wholly unaware of anything happening becoming effected by the response to what has happened to others. I tried to imagine how I would react if it was my son aged three attending the setting, how I would want to question him to see if he was 'alright' but without training or some awareness of child protection issues how would I know the need to carefully word any question so as not to impose my 'adult knowledge' of these issues on my sons childhood innocense (spl)? This is such a difficult issue to respond to in a way that recognises the childrens perspective of events, and not to impose the adults horror (perspective) onto the children.

How many children will, following this, end up with a phobia of camera's.?

 

One positive thing I did read was that the parents involved, although obviously very distressed, conducted themselves admirably by not becoming hysterical (for want of a better word). Maybe though this conduct was a result of shock.

 

A sad, sad world we live in when this can happen to our children.

 

Peggy

[Guest]

My only thought is this - there are sick people out there that do these things BUT WHO LET IT HAPPEN??

Where were their safe guarding procedures?

I manage a 120plc nursery with 37 staff. Mobile phones are not allowed on the nursery premisis and have to be in the staffroom (seperate building) and I check regularly! All photos on nursery cameras are vetted. Even when children are in water or messy floor paint underwear is worn, and most importantly ALL bathrooms have either open doors or vision pannels.

As for CRB checks I dont think this is the issue here, that check is only as good as the day it is issued unfortunatly!!

I'm sorry but this sooo could have been avoided!!!!!

[HappyMaz]

One positive thing I did read was that the parents involved, although obviously very distressed, conducted themselves admirably by not becoming hysterical (for want of a better word).

Which can't be said of those in the public gallery in the courthouse today who were yelling and spitting at this woman as she stood in the dock, apparently.

 

Maz

[Guest]

Which can't be said of those in the public gallery in the courthouse today who were yelling and spitting at this woman as she stood in the dock, apparently.

 

Maz

 

 

Do you know was there any plea, Or was it just charges ?

 

Peggy

[Upsy Daisy]

She was just charged and remanded in custody.

[JacquieL]

If only it was easy. People who abuse children and vulnerable adults are not, on the surface, the monsters we think, but incredibly manipulative and credible people. By the very nature of what they can do, and seem to be, we would never suspect them. This is the only way that they can succeed with what they do, deceptive, manipulative and dangerous people. Yes I know what you mean about 'innocent until proved guilty' but sometimes, although everyone knows that the person has done what they have done, the witnesses are children or vulnerable adults, and they don't make good witnesses. Their testimonies are not reliable so those people don't come to justice as they should. I have experience of this with the abuse of vulnerable adults who have, allegedly, been abused, but some of these cases never come to court because of the nature of people with disabilities, and their inability to stand up to scrutiny in court! Accept that this makes me very very angry, and these people are innocent because of our system of justice. Thank goodness for CRB's, as any Police investigation of this type is on their enhanced disclosure. this is where CRB's are of use. There is nothing else that can be done. Someone can be systematically abused, but as there is a lack of independent witnesses the perpetrator never comes to justice.

The other side is the situation that Catma describes, a real tragedy for someone who is innocent and so distraught that they cannot cope. I can fully understand that. I've no idea what the answer is!

[Guest]

i feel awful for the staff who are doing their job and are now jobless and also the poor parents and children! ihave no words its sickening to even think of these innocent children!!!

in our setting,we only are allowed to use the one camera but what about wha she was doing to these children !! awful she's guilty in my mind hope they throw away the key!!!!!

[Guest]

The sickening thing is if she hadnt used a camera would she of ever been found out and how long could this of gone on for. My hearfelt sympathy goes out to thechildrenand families affected and to the innocent staff who have got caught up in this awful situation.