Not Looking Good.....

[hali]

im sure a 4th crew member will be along shortly

[Cait]

Do you think there'll only be 4 or are we going to have to rent a galleon rather than a rowing boat?

[hali]

yes we may have too listening to all these unhappy groups out there

[Guest]

Can I come too please? - not the greatest rower, but i'll try hard and can always bail out the water if we start to sink due to overloading.

 

(committees OK at the mo, but never know what's round the corner. I want security)

[Guest]

Can I come too please? - not the greatest rower, but i'll try hard and can always bail out the water if we start to sink due to overloading.

 

(committees OK at the mo, but never know what's round the corner. I want security)

 

Whats security

Count me in too.......

[Guest]

Sadly no such thing as security in committee run pre-school.

 

Every committee member thinks they know best and wants to change it for the better

 

(they make all sorts of odd decisions that we are left to manage, work with and then try and sort out as they leave and move on a year later)

 

Not too bad in the scheme of things - but I still have 250 book bags a committee ordered 2 years ago in my storage cupboard.

As a money making idea - next one didn't agree.

[Cait]

sigh. I hope someone from psla is reading this

[Guest]

I wonder how the government actually feel about committee run settings - they are investing millons in up skilling the work force. Only for us to be controlled and advised by volunteers (who normally mean well, but.............)

 

All this talk of quality provision and education.........................

 

In my part of the world there are only PVI settings - whole county only has handful of maintained nurserys.

 

I am feeling a bit peeved today as sat here updating my prospectus and keeping looking at the PSLA for guidance. But somehow can't help but get annoyed at their emphasis on what parents should do is unbelivable................. and irrational.

[Cait]

And here's the PSLA reply

 

"Dear Cait

Thank you for contacting the Pre-school Learning Alliance.

 

A charity must be run by a group of volunteers, so you are not able to run a charitable pre-school without the committee.

 

Unfortunately it is becoming increasingly more difficult for some charitable settings to recruit new committee members, particularly into the officer roles. Most often this is because parents increasing workload means they are unable to commit their time.

 

Many pre-schools overcome the problem by employing a paid administrator to do the bulk of the work, with the committee overseeing this work and ensuring that it is carried out correctly. Settings that cannot afford to employ another member of staff sometimes split the work between the committee, so that the workload is not too great for any one individual; with the Chair, Treasurer and Secretary overseeing the work relating to their roles.

 

Please find attached a copy of our leaflet outlining to parents the benefits of volunteering for their pre-school committee, which you may find useful in recruiting new committee members.

 

A charity cannot be taken over by a private business as such because they have conflicting purposes. A charity is a not for profit organisation that is set up to benefit the public and not particular individuals, whereas a business is a commercial enterprise set up with the objective of making a profit. However, if a charity is formally dissolving you could set up a private concern and take on the staff/business; I would recommend that you seek legal advice on setting up your own business if this is the case.

 

For a charity to dissolve, the committee or the members must decide that the aims of the pre-school can no longer be fulfilled and convene an emergency general meeting inviting all the members to discuss the issue. It is then down to the members to decide either to dissolve the charity or to explore further options to ensure it keeps running. Under the Alliance constitution, if two thirds of the parents at the EGM vote to wind up the pre-school, the committee must then set about formally dissolving the group and settling the accounts of the charity.

 

Under charity law the pre-school is also asset-locked and as such, once all outstanding debts are paid the committee must transfer the charity’s assets to another pre-school charity. The pre-school funds and equipment cannot be donated to a private organisation or individual.

 

If you do decided to change your charitable status you can still remain as a member of the Pre-school Learning Alliance.

 

If you require any further information please contact the Information Service team at info@pre-school.org.uk or by telephoning 020 7697 2595"

 

So I'm not about to hand over all our equipment - 90%of which I bought myself! over to another preschool in the area - so looks like that's that plan up the kybosh!

 

If anyone wants the link to that leaflet - just shout

[Cait]

Although I suppose I could sell it all to the preschool for a tidy sum thus reducing the amount to be 'given away' to another Preschool and buy fresh..........

 

 

Has anyone out there EVER had stuff from a Preschool which has closed down?

[Guest]

I wonder how the government actually feel about committee run settings - they are investing millons in up skilling the work force. Only for us to be controlled and advised by volunteers (who normally mean well, but.............)

 

Schools have always been run that way so I don't think the goverment would be to bothered only they are called governing bodies. The government itself is run by a committee called the cabinet.

 

sorry to jump in your thread Cait

 

Has anyone out there EVER had stuff from a Preschool which has closed down?

 

Yes-many years ago. The group which openned in a spare terapin in our school grounds received home corner role play equipment from a closing group at the other side of the city. The terrapin was finally condemed 15 years later and our group close so EVERYTHING usable was taken away although lots went in a skip after 15 years use.

Edited March 31, 2009 by Guest

[Cait]

Schools have always been run that way so I don't think the goverment would be to bothered only they are called governing bodies. The government itself is run by a committee called the cabinet.

 

sorry to jump in your thread Cait

 

 

I was a school Governor for 22 years, and we were very much more trained and professional in our role, which wasn't quite the same as the preschool voluntary management committee. I'd like to think that the cabinet and government officials are a little more clued up as to their role - although, hmm, yeah you could have a point

[hali]

i was a governer too - and i agree Cait

[Buttercup]

Our playgroup had the same problems lack of committee same people doing the same jobs. committee decided to dissolve the playgroup. Went through quite easy no money left in bank after bill, redundency etc paid. Thats where I come in i took the playgroup on as a private venture. Rent the building off the school have a contract with the school goveners mostly regarding building. The equipment from the old playgroup I bought at a very good price. Got a grant for setting up a new pre school. Re employed two of the existing staff and 18mths on loving every bit of it. Decisions are made by me and of course the staff yes it is a little worring controlling the finances. School are happy to have rent and a flourishing pre school on their site. Best thing I did.

[Guest]

I was a governor too for 6 years but gave it up influstration

[Cait]

"flustration" is that a mixture of frustration and being flustered? Love it

[Guest]

yep

[Inge]

Although I suppose I could sell it all to the preschool for a tidy sum thus reducing the amount to be 'given away' to another Preschool and buy fresh..........

 

 

Has anyone out there EVER had stuff from a Preschool which has closed down?

 

 

yes we did, several times

a few years ago a local one folded and sold off all its 'stuff', we had lots free from them and are still using a lot of it! Some of the newer items we paid a pittance for so they could cover some of their losses with it, in that case we had half the children come to us too! And some to the staff tried too!

 

recently we had £100.00 book vouchers plus £100.00 ELC vouchers sent to us from PLA where pre-schools locally had closed and the money had been split between all PLA charity groups in the area

 

Inge

[Shiny]

My 4 year Governors duties are about to be up!! Can't wait!!

 

We have never had anything from PSLA when a preschool has folded.

 

My PSLA lady said we could take over as a Community Concern Group, we would no longer require a committee but would not have charitable status, although what the benefits of the status is I don't know!!

[Cait]

Is this the same as a community interest group?

[Shiny]

I would say yes. But what do I know!! Apparently very little!!

[Guest]

Could I just say that not all committees are bad (I'm a Chair) although I do totally understand your frustration with the situation. It is a bit like starting over again every time the committee changes. Plus I can't see why you all have to do so much paperwork for the money they pay you.

 

I'm trying at the moment to make some longer term improvements so that when we have to go, the next person along can continue them on. I'm also trying my very best not to interfere with stuff that is not my remit. Luckily we have a big reserve fund that various committees have built up over the years.

 

Anyway, best of luck with your situation, hope it all works itself out.

[Lou]

And here's the PSLA reply

 

"Dear Cait

Thank you for contacting the Pre-school Learning Alliance.

 

A charity must be run by a group of volunteers, so you are not able to run a charitable pre-school without the committee.

 

Unfortunately it is becoming increasingly more difficult for some charitable settings to recruit new committee members, particularly into the officer roles. Most often this is because parents increasing workload means they are unable to commit their time.

 

Many pre-schools overcome the problem by employing a paid administrator to do the bulk of the work, with the committee overseeing this work and ensuring that it is carried out correctly. Settings that cannot afford to employ another member of staff sometimes split the work between the committee, so that the workload is not too great for any one individual; with the Chair, Treasurer and Secretary overseeing the work relating to their roles.

 

Please find attached a copy of our leaflet outlining to parents the benefits of volunteering for their pre-school committee, which you may find useful in recruiting new committee members.

 

A charity cannot be taken over by a private business as such because they have conflicting purposes. A charity is a not for profit organisation that is set up to benefit the public and not particular individuals, whereas a business is a commercial enterprise set up with the objective of making a profit. However, if a charity is formally dissolving you could set up a private concern and take on the staff/business; I would recommend that you seek legal advice on setting up your own business if this is the case.

 

For a charity to dissolve, the committee or the members must decide that the aims of the pre-school can no longer be fulfilled and convene an emergency general meeting inviting all the members to discuss the issue. It is then down to the members to decide either to dissolve the charity or to explore further options to ensure it keeps running. Under the Alliance constitution, if two thirds of the parents at the EGM vote to wind up the pre-school, the committee must then set about formally dissolving the group and settling the accounts of the charity.

 

Under charity law the pre-school is also asset-locked and as such, once all outstanding debts are paid the committee must transfer the charity's assets to another pre-school charity. The pre-school funds and equipment cannot be donated to a private organisation or individual.

 

If you do decided to change your charitable status you can still remain as a member of the Pre-school Learning Alliance.

 

If you require any further information please contact the Information Service team at info@pre-school.org.uk or by telephoning 020 7697 2595"

 

So I'm not about to hand over all our equipment - 90%of which I bought myself! over to another preschool in the area - so looks like that's that plan up the kybosh!

 

If anyone wants the link to that leaflet - just shout

 

If you want to take it over, you can make an offer for the equipment. It would be like buying the setting.

[Cait]

If you want to take it over, you can make an offer for the equipment. It would be like buying the setting.

 

 

Well, er yeah - but it's my equipment anyway! 90% of it

[hali]

have you got reciepts to prove it Cait - if so there shouldnt be a problem

[Cait]

have you got reciepts to prove it Cait - if so there shouldnt be a problem

 

 

I've got receipts for everything the Preschool owns - everything that's gone though the 'books'

[Alison]

I wonder how the government actually feel about committee run settings - they are investing millons in up skilling the work force. Only for us to be controlled and advised by volunteers (who normally mean well, but.............)

 

OH DONT GET ME STARTED!!!!!! I get the feeling that the government wants to phase playgroups out by making it more and more difficult to operate, the whole education funding system is biased towards school nurseries and LA childrens centres I could rant but I will stop before I start.......!

.....and school governers to get training courses what do playgroup commitee members get?

 

 

 

as for committees....?

is there are law that says the committee members all have to be parents? could you consult local businesses, schools and health centres and see if you could get community representatives on the committee?

 

as for day to day running the group could you operate a management committee of staff do the day to day chores like an administrator would do and then regularly present your action plans to the formal commitee for the ok? you could leave the committee to do the "fun" (depending on your definition of fun!?!) things like fund raising events more like a PTA and leave the nitty gritty to those that know what they are doing? (does that make sence?)

 

 

 

 

 

with regards changing the group and keeping hold of your equipment my sneaky brain wonders.....(dont take me too seriously!!!these are tongue in cheek suggestions).

...... could you open a new community interest group in another venue dissolve your current group donating all your equipment to the new group......?

do you know a group you could give the equipment to and then buy it back at a silly price later on?

or

......could you claim that the majority of the equipment was worn out and had to be thrown on the skip and .... oooops during the night someone emptied the skip?

 

 

we have had donated toys from a local group that was closing but most playgroups equipment can be well worn so when various local groups closed most of the equipment was chucked in skips

[hali]

thank you Alison for making me laugh (1st time in weeks) on ....owww dont get me started!!!!!!

 

its all just a nightmare!!!!

[Guest]

Helloooo

Thought I would up date you.....well supposed to be re-opening after Easter. Numbers look healthy but hard work! Upto 19-20 per day with lots of just turned 3 yrs and more under 3yrs (max of 4 per day) and only 3 staff. They have cut half an hour off everybodies day . Less time to set up and will be no opportunity for quick staff meet in the morning. We are not having staff meetings or keyworker/planning meetings either as some refuse to do without being paid. This means keychildren files are not being updated either . What would OFSTED say about this? They currently wont pay for developing pictures for files anyway and wont let us get anymore scrapbooks, slide binders for learning journals. I went in 4 hours this week without pay to get files for 5 new children sorted. Hvae managed to scrape something together but wont be abe to do anymore. Got a new deputy starting but they still have no-one for SENCo for little boy. I think they ar hoping i dont get this other job so that they can get me to do it!

 

Not much response from parents about the official letter. Got another fund raising event happening end of April (quiz night). One parent volunteered to go on committee (not ideal as she was chair LAST year and her child leaves in 6 weeks??!!). Still only 4 out of 12 committee signed up are new parents. Current chair, treasurer, admissions want to stay. No news on the moving to school front. Considering that the head was supposed to want us in there for sept??!!

 

Got my interview on fri. Feeling completely shattered and ready for my holidays at EASTER!

[Lou]

Well, er yeah - but it's my equipment anyway! 90% of it

 

 

I understand how you feel Cait but I did not intend to cause any offence at my message or was I poking fun.

Unfortunately unless you own the setting the group and it's belongings are the committee responsibility. If you paid for the equipment out of your own pocket that may be different.

Edited April 2, 2009 by Lou