All Early Years Practitioners To Have Level 3 Qualification By 2015

[Guest lucyevans]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educa...an-A-level.html

[Guest lucyevans]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educa...an-A-level.html

 

http://www.nurseryworld.co.uk/news/874882/...ys-White-Paper/

[Cait]

Hmm, it's not getting any better is it?

[Guest]

you can see thats where there heading. in our area we have been told that we will recieve an enhancement when the 15hr funding comes in in sept 2010, if we have a member of staff at degree and the rest level 3.....

[JacquieL]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2009/jan/2...re-reforms-cost

 

How is this going to be affordable? How long are the dedicated EY's workforce going to be expected to work on low rates of pay?

[Helen]

Thanks for those links, Lucy. What's your view on this?

[HappyMaz]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2009/jan/2...re-reforms-cost

 

How is this going to be affordable? How long are the dedicated EY's workforce going to be expected to work on low rates of pay?

This is the 64,000 dollar question really JacquieL - Steve Alexander from the Pre-school Learning Alliance was quoted as saying as much in the Nursery World article.

 

The Government are certainly putting their heads above the parapet on this one - perhaps the time has come when they realise that whilst these principles are laudable (having a higher qualified early years and childcare workforce), they need to be paid for. As usual I think we need more information before we can make an informed decision about how it will all work. Unfortunately I think Governments of all stripe are much better at the headline grabbing announcement than they are in explaining how it will all hang together in practice.

 

I think it is important to note that this isn't just a Government wheeze though - these suggestions have been made before by independent researchers so this is by no means a new idea.

 

Am watching very carefully to see what happens next...

 

Maz

[Guest]

Thanks for the links.

 

I have just found the full DCSF document that these press statements are referring to - the one that was published today - here:

 

http://www.everychildmatters.gov.uk/IG00356/

 

(all 87 pages of it)

[hali]

come on girls - this will be a breeze governments got it all under control

[Annie-pops]

Thanks all, the articles make interesting - and perplexing reading. In principle, no one would have an issue with the idea that the better the education of the early years workforce, the greater likelihood of good outcomes for the children. However, there's the article saying about the high cost of childcare I'm not sure how we resolve both of these issues !! I think the powers that be need to get real - it generally IS expensive to look after children well, whether you count the cost of a wage lost for someone to stay at home or whether you look for the best possible care to enable a parent to work. I can't imagine there's an easy solution - if there is one at all !! ( I'm obviously not educated well enough to figure one out!!)

[Cait]

Well they manage in Norway and Scandinavia where the early years workforce is considered incredibly important! We're not in the wrong job ladies - we're in the wrong country!!!

[Guest]

Thinking (I think) on the positive, at least now we won't get some ill informed careers advisors in Secondary schools saying to some girls " Why not be a Nursery Nurse" (when no other job options seem viable due to lack of academic ability previously shown). The thinking behind the advisors is, well even if you don't make it, at least the experience may help you to become a better parent.

 

It's just a shame there isn't an A level in the subjects of common sense and having initiative. Now I'd employ anyone with those qualifications, of which I am sure (even without undertaking a massive research project) would give the greater likelihood of good outcomes for the children too.

 

Peggy

[HappyMaz]

Thinking (I think) on the positive, at least now we won't get some ill informed careers advisors in Secondary schools saying to some girls " Why not be a Nursery Nurse" (when no other job options seem viable due to lack of academic ability previously shown).

Well I know I've bored you before on the subject, but when MrsWeasley went to enquire at a local college about doing the ADCE the course leader told her she was too clever to work in childcare! If this is the attitude from those people teaching childcare students what hope do we have?

 

Maz

[Annie-pops]

Flippin' eck - that's terrible!!

I totally agree with you Peggy on the common sense issue! There are somethings where they don't provide you with a piece of paper to prove you've got it!!

 

We've had some students who totally lack any initiative or self- motivation!! I used to have a colleague who in total frustration tried to explain to a student the basic minimum level of effort and input needed which in her words was "Find a job ... do the job ... Find another job!!"

[Alison]

this makes me mad sorry but I feel a rant coming....

 

I dont know any other job that is paid so little and demanded of so much and what is the point? the majority of the skills needed to do the job are not learnt out of text books many skills are taught inhouse without any formal recognision or accreditation.

 

I agree its important for staff to train and continue with their professional development through out their career but to demand level 3 of all staff is not practical or in the childrens best interests, there are many staff who spend so much of their time observing and assessing that it is difficult to just enjoy quality time with the children and we find this is where the unqualified members of staff who dont have aspirations of being the manager are a godsend they are able to mingle with the children relaxed in the knowledge that they are not jumping through hoops.

 

insisting staff have level 3 with turn people away, the unqualified staff will be pushed out, their skills lost and their contribution to the sessions will be greatly missed. is the government insisting that all helpers in schools are qualified? I dont think so, and I dont understand why all preschool staff need to be level 3?

 

rant over!

[Guest]

Well they manage in Norway and Scandinavia where the early years workforce is considered incredibly important! We're not in the wrong job ladies - we're in the wrong country!!!

 

Absolutely Cait.

I watched an Early Years programme on Teachers TV and it was about how the Scandanavian pre-schools worked. Interestingly, the practitioners were asked what they thought of our system in England. Needless to say , they said that they wouldn't want their quality time that they spent with the children compromised by having to provide endless documents in order to to prove to Ofsted that they are doing a good job!!! One pracitioner actually said their government trusted them to provide good quality childcare. If there are bad pre-schools out there they would get weedled out eventually.

Parents were interviewed too and they said that all they wanted was their children to develop their social skills, be happy and be safe.

They start school at 7, and are far more successful, academically, than we are.

Oh how I wish this country could adopt the same attitude.

As for the qualification bit, it grieves me to think that one of my colleagues could end up jobless. She's been with us for 10 years and is one of the most able and dedicated members of staff that you could wish for. She's more than happy to attend training courses, but absolutely does not want to gain a qualification. But what does her experience count for? Zilch!!!

[Guest MaryEMac]

I am in total agreement with Alison. By next year all of my staff bar one will be level 3.

The other assistant is level 2 and was going to do level 3 this year. She came to me almost in tears one morning because in her heart of hearts she didn't want to do it. I told her that I would rather her be in with level 2, happy and doing what she does best, which is being with the children. She must be the calmest person I know and is sooo good at settling new children. I don't want to lose her, mind you I probably won't be there then.

 

Mary

[Lucie]

When i told my then headteacher at my local grammar school that I wanted to go to uni to do early years studies, she told me that it wasnt worth it, i was too clever and that my degree would be in 'nappy changing'!

However, she didnt mind putting her 6week old son into full time day care!!!!

If that is the view of people who are educating us then how are we ever going to get anywhere!

I am a young trainee teacher and i really appreciate the wealth of knowledge and experience that everyone brings when i am on placement, i wouldnt be able to get through without them they know far more than i do.

It doesn't need high level qualifications it needs high standards within settings, and people who really care about the children.

 

xx

[Guest]

Thought id get involved cos it is too stressing me out!

 

I am a new manager, taken over from a well established setting where I used to be deputy. My staff are the best in the world but are already talking like they wont be there much longer cos they dont want to go back to college. Their experience is worth more than a bit of paper, but in 6 years time im going to have 1 of my original staff. Places are going to be closing down because they are making it too hard. It is like we are costantly on guard and being watche like we cant be trusted and its just not fair. We do a good job and give kids a good start in life...just leave us alone!!!!

[Guest]

Hi all,

 

Just repeating what has been said really that unless the government is prepared to put money into childcare/education pre-school the whole qualification thing is a real wooden spoon stirrer !! I am a childminder who has a level 3 a Foundation Degree in Early Years and completing my BA (HONS) Education and Childcare. Parents from my practice are not interested in my qualification, they are interested in my experience and my references, etc. Although, personally I do agree that having a qualification is great as I have learnt so much about how and why children learn and develop as they do, even though I have been a childminder for seventeen years (said the amount of years quietly as I cannot believe that I am still childminding!).

 

On top of this for childminders, even though I have a level 6 qualification, as I am not part of a network as an accredited childminder, I am not able to claim the NEG, with the free entitlement being extended to fifteen hours and eventually two year olds, this is a real problem. My friend has run a great pre-school for years and she is struggling, staff want more pay as more qualified, more children in full day care, straight to reception so smaller numbers and now she has a level 6 qualification she is having to take a pay cut! inorder to be able to stay open.

 

What a mad world.

[Cait]

Ok - so who's going to draft the letter to be debated 'in the house' we'll all print one off and sign and send it!

[Guest]

Thinking (I think) on the positive, at least now we won't get some ill informed careers advisors in Secondary schools saying to some girls " Why not be a Nursery Nurse" (when no other job options seem viable due to lack of academic ability previously shown). The thinking behind the advisors is, well even if you don't make it, at least the experience may help you to become a better parent.

 

It's just a shame there isn't an A level in the subjects of common sense and having initiative. Now I'd employ anyone with those qualifications, of which I am sure (even without undertaking a massive research project) would give the greater likelihood of good outcomes for the children too.

 

Peggy

 

 

aw it is awful isn't it like.our setting though which i workin -we are all qualified to level 3if anyone applies for a job they have to have level 3!! we have been told hat we have to be qualified to level 4 by 2015 is this wrong??!!

[HappyMaz]

aw it is awful isn't it like.our setting though which i workin -we are all qualified to level 3if anyone applies for a job they have to have level 3!! we have been told hat we have to be qualified to level 4 by 2015 is this wrong??!!

That may be the policy in your setting, but as far as I know there are no plans to have every practitioner qualified to Level 4. I can't see how the Government could enforce this when the only qualification the new database recognises above Level 3 is EYPS...

 

Maz

[hali]

umm nor do i

[Guest]

I do believe in further education, it is all part and parcel of being reflective practitioners looking outside the confines of our establishments to further afield through gaining knowledge from researchers etc.

In Sweden (not sure about Scandinavia) the childrens workforce are trained to degree level, when I visited Sweden in the 90's I was fortunate enough to attend their training colleges, their training is much more holistic than ours as well as academic subjects they cover age ranges from 0-99 and study creative subjects, community, health, etc etc. They don't finish their studies until about the age of 24 yrs.

 

The argument I believe should be about paying for the highly qualified workforce, respecting us as professionals, to look at the routes to qualifications of a high degree and what is included within these courses. The constant moving of goal posts is I think the problem, my previously 'suitable' ADCE is it appears no longer valid. I have in effect been studying for 20+ yrs, since starting my career in childcare and education, but have, like others chosen not to go down the academic degree route.

 

I am currently reading 'A Good Childhood' a report for the Childrens Society (recommended on here), my childrens social worker said to me "What? you're reading that for pleasure?", in other words, I have studied for 20+ yrs, on recognised courses plus also in my own time as an avid follower of current thinking. How my knowledge and skills is measured is the difficult part, I don't believe it is through the degree route but I am not sure what the answer is either.

 

What I do know is that if the childrens workforce isn't valued as a profession, which it still isn't yet, no-one within it will ever feel like true professionals. and will leave in their droves to professions where their worth is valued.

 

One reason (of many) why I have chosen to be a Foster carer. (although ironically we too have to fight to be valued, but at least the rewards are higher, not just in monetary terms but in the results we see from the children we care for)

 

Peggy

[Guest]

i asked the inspector about all staff having L3 and she said she hadnt heard of it ?????!!!!!!!!!

[Cait]

The constant moving of goal posts is I think the problem, my previously 'suitable' ADCE is it appears no longer valid. I have in effect been studying for 20+ yrs, since starting my career in childcare and education, but have, like others chosen not to go down the academic degree route.

Peggy

 

 

I totally agree with you Peggy, I also have ADCE which took a long hard two years of study when my children were very small, Alan had just started Primary school, and I thought I'd have 'spare time'. So, like you, I've done 20+ years of study. I undertook the OU FDEY when it first launched, as I was told it would give me EYPS, then the goalposts were moved half way through my third year of study, and we were all dumbfounded to find out we were studying for a qualification which wouldn't give us what we'd been promised. I believe the OU should have stepped in at that point and made sure that courses we were offered subsequently would do more to support our ongoing development towards this goal, but they didn't - that's another story.

Because of this, having achieved Senior Practitioner Status, I'm not doing any more studying until the goalposts are more solidly fixed!