Guest Posted December 2, 2008 Posted December 2, 2008 Hello all I am now having moe time to work on Inclusion acrosss the Childrens centre (we were a nUrsery school with daycare until Sept this year) I have been told by my Head that this is a 'very senor post' and that this is my chance to 'prove myself' I wasnt to open up inclusion to those families who use the centre but who don't have children there yet (babies/toddlers/singing groups etc) Any ideas????????
Helen Posted December 3, 2008 Posted December 3, 2008 Hi Kate, Sorry I don't follow....feeling a bit dim this morning How do you mean they use the Centre but don't have any children there yet? Do you mean they attend the groups you mention, but not the daycare part?
Rea Posted December 3, 2008 Posted December 3, 2008 I'm having a dim moment too it seems. Why is inclusion not for the families already there. Isnt the point of inclusion that we include everyone?
Guest Posted December 3, 2008 Posted December 3, 2008 I am confused too! how can you be inclusive by deciding which group you will exclude straight away?! Please clarify and we might be able to help.
Guest Posted December 3, 2008 Posted December 3, 2008 Sorry, will try to be clearer. What I want to do is provide more info/presence/advice/wowrkshops for those who attend groups etc, but whose children are not yet old enough to come to the Nursery or do not attend daycare. We are very inclusive for those families who attend daycare and nursery, I just want to widen the service, knowledge and understanding that I can provide in all aspects of inclusion. Break down barriers so that, if the time comes, parents feel supported, know what to do, can access workshops etc. Sorry, waffling now......
Guest Posted December 4, 2008 Posted December 4, 2008 We have an Inclusion & Integration Officer on our LA team who supports settings with inclusion, you could see if there is someone in your authority who carries out a similar role who may be able to provide you with some support.
Helen Posted December 5, 2008 Posted December 5, 2008 Kate, Could you arrange a visit to another CC in the the County, and talk with them about what they have set up? What groups exist already in yours? I attended a great family learning session recently, about how to develop Maths learning in the environment, when you are out and about with your child. Is this the sort of thing you're thinking about? Setting up cooking groups, where parents cook with the child, is proving to be very popular in CCs, and it gives everyone a chance to get to know each other, and offer extra support if necessary in the future. How about an open day, where you can showcase some activities and get people through the doors
Guest Posted January 14, 2009 Posted January 14, 2009 I run a private nursery and must be seen to promote inclusive practice. I am all for this but cannot get the local authority to see the logistical issues that come from running a private organisation who work to set ratios and then be expected to care for severely autistic children for example, within these ratios. As i said, we are all for inclusion but each case must be taken individually into account. We are working with the PELICAN programme but the worker does not stay for the amount of time the child is in the setting. We have tried to get funding or staffing for outside of these times but so far nothing is forthcoming. i do not want our setting to be looked upon as not open to all, but we have to limit the amount of children who have severe specific needs whose parents refuse to send them to a specialist department or group. Anybody have similar experiences?
Cait Posted January 14, 2009 Posted January 14, 2009 Have you got a copy of the file 'Index for Inclusion' There's lots of great ideas in there which I'm sure would help
hali Posted January 14, 2009 Posted January 14, 2009 your LEA should have given you a copy a few years back now!!!!
Guest Posted January 14, 2009 Posted January 14, 2009 there's also a document on the EYFS CD Rom called 'All of Us - Inclusion checklist for settings' which I found really useful. I have experience of supporting children with severe autism and am surprised that you are expected to care for a child without the support of a one to one worker for the whole time the child is in attendance. I worked for 6yrs as a home education tutor for children who had been withdrawn/excluded from mainstream and special preschool/schools. With one child I supported them in a mainstream pre school setting as well as at home. I liaised with his keyworker who shadowed me to understand more about his needs and then my support was withdrawn gradually. However, he still had a one to one worker with him for the majority of the time he was in attendance. Have you spoken to the parents about additional support, maybe they could advertise for a support worker who could help at home and in the setting. If the child is severly autistic then they could be entitled to direct payment from social services which could fund this. Families that I've worked with have also registered for support at the voluntary bureau and also advertised at the University - especially those who offer childcare/psychology/sociology courses for students. feel free to PM me if you'd like advice about anything specific, I understand how hard it can be in practice. Parents are entitled to choice though and having worked with lots of families who have found themselves in this - what can often be a nightmare situation - only want the best for their child. Lots of parents feel that if their child is in a mainstream setting it will help them lose some of their autistic behaviours. I'm sure you've read it but the 'Welcome to Holland' poem is useful for understanding the journey that parents go on.
Guest Posted January 14, 2009 Posted January 14, 2009 sorry, just realised that was your first post and wanted to welcomeyou too
HappyMaz Posted January 14, 2009 Posted January 14, 2009 Where would we look for that Cait? Here? Every setting in our Borough was given one some years ago and it is great for auditing how inclusive your setting is, although I'm not sure it will help roselodge2ja solve her funding problem! Maz
HappyMaz Posted January 14, 2009 Posted January 14, 2009 (edited) dcn - what an informative post! Like you I am surprised that any group should be asked to support a child with such profound additional needs without support for the whole time the child is in the setting. However I think many groups are probably doing just that - funding is typically for 2.5 hour sessions and when the setting offers three hour sessions as a minimum this extra period is not covered. I wasn't aware that the direct payment system could be used to support the child in pre-school - I guess this depends on what is offered to the family and the conditions placed on the funding. Although I would argue that this funding would be better used to fund respite care to enable families who care for children with such profound needs - the bill for including children in mainstream settings (where this is in the best interests of the child) should be fully met. That said, our group has always 'chipped in' to support children where necessary because the alternative is to send them home before other children or not allow them to access their free entitlement completely. Maz Edited January 14, 2009 by HappyMaz
Cait Posted January 14, 2009 Posted January 14, 2009 Every LEA setting was given one in our County, I'd never heard of it till I did and inclusion module with the OU, then I ordered one, and I have to say it made very interesting reading, although some of it was a bit 'pie in the sky' as a lot of these government initiatives seem to be!
Guest Posted January 14, 2009 Posted January 14, 2009 dcn - what an informative post! Like you I am surprised that any group should be asked to support a child with such profound additional needs without support for the whole time the child is in the setting. However I think many groups are probably doing just that - funding is typically for 2.5 hour sessions and when the setting offers three hour sessions as a minimum this extra period is not covered. I wasn't aware that the direct payment system could be used to support the child in pre-school - I guess this depends on what is offered to the family and the conditions placed on the funding. Although I would argue that this funding would be better used to fund respite care to enable families who care for children with such profound needs - the bill for including children in mainstream settings (where this is in the best interests of the child) should be fully met. That said, our group has always 'chipped in' to support children where necessary because the alternative is to send them home before other children or not allow them to access their free entitlement completely. Maz As far as I'm aware the family can choose to use direct payments as they see fit. I was funded part by direct payments and partly in my role as a respite carer. The package I was giving to the family was made up of respite care in my own home, education sessions in his playroom and to take him to his preschool sessions - just twice a week, for an hour or so, mainly to join in with outdoor play and snacktimes, supporting him and his keyworker in getting to know him, showing her signs that he used etc. we always left at grouptimes eg. circletimes, registration. The setting was never expected to take on his care solely until much, much later
HappyMaz Posted January 14, 2009 Posted January 14, 2009 I have to say it made very interesting reading, although some of it was a bit 'pie in the sky' as a lot of these government initiatives seem to be! As far as I'm aware although Local Authorities have put their weight behind the Index, it isn't a Government initiative. The Centre for Studies on Inclusion Education is a registrered charity, funded by donation, sales of publications and research funding.
Cait Posted January 14, 2009 Posted January 14, 2009 As far as I'm aware although Local Authorities have put their weight behind the Index, it isn't a Government initiative. The Centre for Studies on Inclusion Education is a registrered charity, funded by donation, sales of publications and research funding. Whoops - you are quite right! what-a-mistake-a-to-make-a!
Guest Posted February 3, 2009 Posted February 3, 2009 Hi all, thanks for your responses, we have all the inclusion paperwork and adhere to all procedures, however, we are not qualified to look after this child. its not just a case of funded hours/sessions, his mother uses us for respite care also, which in itself is understandable, so he is therefore in the setting out of the funded hours also. my main issue is that we love this child dearly and have a great rapport with the family and those other professionals working with him, but we do not seem to get the support we are asking for with regards to the attention required by him. For example, he loves to run up and down the centre of a room-this is not always possible or safe as others are using the area. he enjoys physical contact with others on his own terms, but he is so heavy handed and quick that you literally are required to shadow his every move for his own safety and that of the other children. Some of the children are really nurturing towards him, whilst others spend their session almost waiting for him to stumble on them...so many differing facets to this issue, and very slow for help to arrive. even his worker is absent regularly and there is no cover for those occasions. It just seems that we are left to "cope", which is not good enough for these children with additional and very specific needs. The staff get stressed, again, understandable when left in lurch at last minute with a full pre school and an extra child requiring the 1-1. There are apparently no short answers and we still await help. i was just hoping to hear from other settings who are having or have had the same or similar issues. thanks
Helen Posted February 5, 2009 Posted February 5, 2009 I really do sympathise, having been in your position several times over the years I ran my own nursery. The best system we devised was to gain extra funding from the Learning Support Service (I gues this is your Pelican service?), and then ask the parents to top up the salary for our 1-1 early years practitioner. I didn't like doing it for obvious reasons, but after explaining that we couldn't cope without a 1-1, and we couldn't afford to pay for it ourselves, the families happily agreed. I know this is less than satisfactory, and families of autistic children or with children of any sort of disability, should not be required to pay extra for the services. But as you say, if you're running a small business you are on a very tight budget, and if you're anything like me and thousands of others, it's your salary that deteriorates when there are extra demands on the finances. In my last year of running my lovely nursery, I earned two thousand less than my deputy!
Guest Posted February 16, 2009 Posted February 16, 2009 many thanks for all your responses, it is at the very least, good to know we are not alone and havent missed a boat for support somewhere along the line. at the same time its disheartening to hear that this is an issue for many settings that is too slowly being addressed. i would like to go on a rant to the ed dept to get them to realistically address sen issues in realistic mainstream situations. cheers for the verbal support, advice, sympathy and empathy. all of which is much appreciated.x
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