anju Posted October 2, 2008 Share Posted October 2, 2008 hi all, yet another staffing problem. new deputy has been in post for 4 weeks and has been frankly awful. I arranged to speak to her today to detail my concerns (mostly around constant criticism of our routines and procedures and also patronising attitude to other staff) and she told me she is giving her notice. I am pleased as I don't think it would have worked out but am concerned obviously about where this leaves us with Ofsted etc. I mentioned recently (to maz i think) that I have a very good early years practitioner who is nearly finished her NVQ 2 and who is more than capable of being left in charge. but obviously she is not level three qualified and won't be for at least 6 months. (I am an NVQ assessor so I can assess her in the workplace and 6 months seems achieveable.) i have one other member of staff who has just inished her level two cache certificate and she is also very good. really not sure what to do. will Ofsted let me operate (extended day pre-school on school site) without level 3 deputy for a temporary period with an action plan in place? or do i have to employ anyone I can find (and it's difficult) with a level 3 already even if they are not suitable in other ways. or get someone temporary through an agency but I don't think we can afford more than one or two days per week in agency fees. HELP!! Anju Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hali Posted October 2, 2008 Share Posted October 2, 2008 are there not exeptional circumstances that ofsted will allow if you put it in writing to them???? - sure there is - or was!!! worth asking them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Wolfie Posted October 2, 2008 Share Posted October 2, 2008 I would certainly contact Ofsted and let them know about your situation. I would guess that they will ask you to put together some kind of action plan that will show how you propose to tackle the situation without jeopardising the quality of the care you give and the safety of the children in your care. In my experience, Ofsted are usually willingly to work in partnership with providers to continue the provision of childcare so that there is an unbroken service to parents. You sound as though you've thought it all through carefully and have a strong case to put forward. Good luck - let us know how it goes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 2, 2008 Share Posted October 2, 2008 I'm sure if you let Ofsted know that you will have a level 3 in 6 months they will be happy. I know of groups that don't have that and still open. I would be very surprised if they make you do anything else, especially if the person is capable and has been with you awhile. Can you make the effort to be on site most of the time even if you are not with the children, or that you are contactable when you are not there? As long as you show willing you shouldn't have a problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 2, 2008 Share Posted October 2, 2008 I had exactly the same problem, my deputy was dreadful and asked for 2 weeks holiday either side of easter, it was agreed. 3 days before she was due to go on holiday she came in and handed in her notice telling me she was using her 4 weeks holiday as her notice. I had a level 2 who wont be qualified level 3 until christmas but she is more tann capeable and has been here a long time. I phoned ofsted and they told me to put in writing her case and why I felt she was suitable. A month later I recieved a letter from them telling me that they dont do suitable persons any more they leave it up to us as employers to deem her suitable. I have kept the letter and put it in her file just in case. I hope this helps. Killowengirl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alison Posted October 2, 2008 Share Posted October 2, 2008 I had a similar problem a few years ago my deputy left a week before christmas leaving me as the only level 3 I phoned Ofsted and to ask what happens if I was ill and couldnt go in one day could we open? I explained we had a level 2 who had 5+ years experience in the setting competent of taking charge in emegency situations to ensure continuity of care they were ok about that however we are only sessional care so I cannt comment on your situaltion but Ofsted where very helpful... so phone them and discuss your situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 2, 2008 Share Posted October 2, 2008 I was an "working-towards" level 3 deputy and Ofsted were fine with it as my manager vouched for my competence. I agree - speak to them and explain your action plan. The worst they can say is no and leave you using bank staff for the time being. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 2, 2008 Share Posted October 2, 2008 Hi sorry to be the bearer of bad news - since 1st September. The deputy has to have a level 3 qualification - we have begged OFSTED as our deputy was due to finish her's by OCT. But it has not been acceptable. They will not accept action plan's any longer - qualification essential. the reason we had was because the deputy could be in left in charge they must have the same qualification as manager/ supervisor.We were even told without the level 3 my deputy could not have any management responisbility. We are now having to employ an agency supervisor when I go to Uni (I start tomorrow and I am worried). It's always worth a try phoning OFSTED, but beware we had EYFS read to us a lot - eventually we got an answer, but it took several phone calls etc . We currently have a deputy who is unable to complete her job description act as deputy - now off work with stress, as she is worried about her job. So we are stuck no deputy (off sick) and unlikely she will get her level 3 shortly as now ill. I am still smiling - but only just. Good luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 2, 2008 Share Posted October 2, 2008 our letter from ofsted confirming that I can employ my deputy was dated 8th september Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 2, 2008 Share Posted October 2, 2008 Oh you are joking - it really is a nightmare. We have had a really hard time on this. My Deputy has been in situ for 2 years and in all honestly should have finished her nvq 3 long ago, but is very capable and after lots of pushing by us was finally back at college and nearly there. Just needs assessing and would be done by OCT. Now in all probability I have lost my deputy, as she doesn't want to come back. I am stuck however as whilst she's off sick, we can't even talk to her about it and try to help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 2, 2008 Share Posted October 2, 2008 We have been told that as the new guidance has only come into place since September that as long as OFSTED are aware of situation and that as long as you can show you are working towards getting all staff to required levels then its not a problem. They (OFSTED lady I spoke to) have said they expect some period of transition! HTH Zoe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anju Posted October 3, 2008 Author Share Posted October 3, 2008 thanks ever so much for the advice - am going to ring Ofsted today and just keep fingers crossed that they do not expect full compliance with EYFS straight away... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 3, 2008 Share Posted October 3, 2008 When I rung Ofsted in July to confirm this situation they said that the supervisor HAD to be level 3 (which was fine) but that you also now have to have a named deputy on each session (the bit tat the pre-school were struggling with). Ofsted said the level 2 could be a 'deputy' but COULD NOT be left in charge! Tess, If you need any cover, I am at home twiddling my thumbs waiting for the right position to come up I am level 4 qualified, First aid, behaviour management etc etc good references and live in Southampton!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beau Posted October 3, 2008 Share Posted October 3, 2008 Tess, If you need any cover, I am at home twiddling my thumbs waiting for the right position to come up I am level 4 qualified, First aid, behaviour management etc etc good references and live in Southampton!! Looks like a match made in heaven! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anju Posted October 3, 2008 Author Share Posted October 3, 2008 just spoke to ofsted and was told NO action plans allowed and deputy HAS to have a full level 3. she said i would have to use agency staff to fill in until i find someone suitable. this is so completely ridiculous and not in the children's interests. i am fuming Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anju Posted October 3, 2008 Author Share Posted October 3, 2008 ok just rang again and asked if i can have a named deputy who is working towards (spoke to different advisor of course) level 3 as long as she is not left in charge and i employ level 3 agency staff in that eventuallity. she said yes and put a note on my file saying she has told me this. better than nothing but contradictory really Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inge Posted October 3, 2008 Share Posted October 3, 2008 This really does seem to be one of those rules which is a bit 'jobs worth'. while we all know qualifications needed etc and reasons.. it is hard to understand how it is felt that a level 3 agency staff who may only cover 1 session , does not know children, routine, parents, etc etc.. is considered more competent than a long standing member of staff who is undergoing training.......showing commitment to the setting by doing so............ often well capable of doing the job and knows all about the setting and is trusted by the parents.... Personally I know which I would prefer to be in charge of looking after my child. Inge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rea Posted October 3, 2008 Share Posted October 3, 2008 From the point of view of an agency worker I couldnt agree more Inge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 3, 2008 Share Posted October 3, 2008 wow - Jenni B. I will PM you and give you my personal details to get in touch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyMaz Posted October 3, 2008 Share Posted October 3, 2008 Looks like a match made in heaven! I was rather hoping for one of those myself, Beau! No such luck... The Forum as matchmaker - what a brilliant concept! Who gets the commission? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 4, 2008 Share Posted October 4, 2008 Hi all Well they did the interviews for our deputy job on fri...this is second time of advertising...only 2 candidates and one of these was the agency girl we have in covering. The other candidate didnt turn up! Supervisor just told me that agency did ok but didnt know much about EYFS and does seem a bit immature and unprofessional. Chair does not want her and thinking of advertising again! Anyway supervisor then said in an ideal world she would make me deputy...PLA lady said why was i not being interviewed...no qualifications in childcare??!! PLA lady said that she had just sorted out a deputy at another pre-school that was only working towards NVQ 3. The reason why im not doing it now is that i am only temp contract on 2 days per week. Supervisor sang my praises...committment, reading up all time etc and that in actual fact was already doing the job ...aaah bless...in fact agency girl through interview kept saying how much i had helped her when supervisor was off last week. On another point supervisor says that the chair is looking at cutting staff after xmas so i could be out of job! Supervisor said that they would be mad to get rid of me...... Anyway chair is considering.......im not supposed to know any of this but supervisor wanted to know how i felt about it...would love it...but remembered reading this thread so think it maybe a no-no....what do you think? TRying not to get hopes up but want to really do it......aaaaahhhh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beth1 Posted October 9, 2008 Share Posted October 9, 2008 oooh interesting. Was just about to ask about named deputies when I saw this. So it is recommened have to have a level 3 named deputy on at every session, although you can have a level 2 as deputy. Ummm very interesting indeed. *ponders about when in manager is not there and only level 3 ACTING deputy is in charge with no other level 3 in the buildling* Beth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lynned55 Posted October 9, 2008 Share Posted October 9, 2008 (edited) I've had a deputy for last year who has only just got her Level3.Ofsted were fine, once I said she was woking towards it. just looking through EYFS now it states: All supervisors and managers must hold full & relevant Level3 and half of all other staff must hold Level2. Last year there was some confusion with OFSTed over a couple of things (ofsted do seem to get confused easilydont they?) One of them was my Deputy having to have a suitable persons interview. Then they said she didn't need to as she wasn't a supervisor or Manager, even though I told them she ran session if I was off and they knew she hadn't got her full level 3. However you may get a completely different answer from them now, as it does say a FULL level 3 and I cant remember what old standards said. Are you willing to gain the qualification? there are some places that will do a fast track NVQ3 for experienced staff Edited October 9, 2008 by lynned55 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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