The Whole Stupid Situation

[Guest]

I think they are really going to have to stop changing everything every two minutes because it really is not doing anybody any favours. AGAIN they must start listening to us.

Looking good on the CWDC front. KEEP WATCHING

[Guest]

Hello everyone,

Thank you for all your views, it has been very interesting to read everyone elses point of views on this issue.

I'm looking forward to being able to explore the issues with the CWDC and hope everyone takes the chance to express how they feel.

I have just recieved my reply from Beverly Hughes and it's left me thinking she hasn't quite got my point!

On the subject of having to run from a shared building, she recommends I contact my EYCS manager and apply for funding? £2,722,799 that has been allocated to Devon for capital funding. Hmmmm

On the subject of pay and conditions, she recommends I speak to my committee. Now I'm laughing.......

On the suitability of committees, she stresses it is the responsibility of the registered provider to ensure it is being run effectively. Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

So unfortunately I don't seem to have learned anything new.

I will be replying and now I have the knowledge from all of you on this lovely forum, that It's not just our setting that is experiencing these concerns, it is endemic of the system we are all working in.

This time I will be clearer with my concerns.

She was however 'heartened to hear of my enthusiasm fo the EYFS, and the positive imact it will have for children.'

Sooooooo I'll reply and let u know if I get anywhere.

 

(: Hope you're all managing to have a good holiday

 

Em x

[Guest]

Although the content wasn't what you anticipated, I'm quite heartened to hear that Beverly Hughes has taken the time to respond to your queries. I think that maybe she hasn't grasped how de-motivated the sector feels. This is difficult to express if the listener focuses on specific problems rather than the 'whole', the combination of many factors which are further exacerbated by continual change. (if you know what mean).

Also the fact that changes appear to be made as a consequence to government agenda's and not the workforce agenda's.

 

Now, I hope you are managing to have a good holida too.

 

Peggy

[millhill]

Having worked for 9 years in a "committee run" pre-school (5 years as manager), I have decided enough is enough.

 

I totally agree with and relate to Emma's first post. It is a ridiculous situation, having a committee made of parents who change every year. Because of this reason, guess who has to do all the committee work, such as administration, payroll, funding applications etc?

 

I have just finished my foundation degree and was going to go onto the EYPS, then I realised, what's the point? For all the hard work, will I get paid fairly? Particularly after the temporary government funding runs out. I didn't want to take the chance.

 

So, I decided to turn to "the dark side", working in a school! I am starting a new job in September as a nursery nurse in a nursery class. It pays £5000 more per annum, then my pre-school manager job.

 

I can't wait. I will actually get to work and play with the children again, instead of being locked up in a 'make-shift' office doing paper work.

 

I'm starting the 3rd year of the Early Childhood Studies degree in September and once I'm qualified, I plan to go onto teacher training. It's the only way I can see that I'll get paid a decent wage and actually be with the children.

 

I always remember an article about Government funding, stating something like: the government expect early years settings to have the quality of a Mercedes on the budget of a Skoda (sorry to all Skoda owners!).

 

I do hope things improve in the voluntary sector, otherwise it will lose some of the best early years practitioners to higher paid jobs (Tesco's often being referred to in my pre-school!!). Come to think about it, nearly all those who have left my pre-school in the last 9 years have moved into the maintained schools.

 

I hope you have more luck with Beverley next time, Emma.

 

millhill (Emma) x

[Guest]

Hello everyone, I am going to have a rant.

I have just been reading posts about committees and packing away and low wages and the EYFS and village halls, its made me a bit mad- hence the rant.

Is it me or is it all wrong?

We have admitedly and proven by reasearch and experience, one of the most important jobs in a childs life- laying the foundations for life long learning and ensuring children feel secure and cared for and that they have equal opportunities and access to a rich learning environment and freedom for expression and choice and to have wonderful experiences that enrich their lives.

The government recognises this and wants to raise the standard of early years care and education and has proven this by creating a 10 year plan, producing the every child matters document, and the new EYFS and by providing the transformation fund to get everyone better trained and more qualified and by providing early years funding so all children can access it( and parents can go to work.)

And yet we are still being run by committees (who know nothing most of the time), we are still charities who have to raise money to buy resources. We are still running from delapidated, uninspiring village halls and the like, where we have to share facilities, we have to get a whole classroom out of a cupboard everyday and then put it away again a few hours later- which is soul destroying after a while.

The government wants us all to be outstanding and lets face it we would all love to be outstanding. I know I aspire to it- but realistically I am being let down constantly by the environment I am in and by the sheer amount of effort and time that goes into getting out and packing away (just think what we could do if we didnt have to do it? We may be able to prepare things for the day, we may be able to talk about what might happen and what has happened, we may be able to improve the level of service we give.) Just maybe!

The government and OFSTED demands reams of paperwork to prove everything we do, they want us to deliver a new framework- the EYFS, which is fantastic but who is going to pay me to do it all? To put all these systems in place, to ensure I am meeting all the requirements? I know the charity I work for can't really afford to pay me for all the hours I do, so I do essential work at home for free. Which is not right.

We are run by committees who are very difficult to come by and are a contstant headache, every year we have a new one who we have to explain everything to, walk them through their roles, then by the time they get the hang of it they're off and we have to start aver again with a new committee. And sometimes the committe is obstructive, interfering, not committed or not experienced enough. It's a ludicrous situation.

I don't know about anyone else but I know my wages are low, far far too low for the amount of work I do and the level of expertise and knowledge I hold and far too low for the responsibilities I have and for the importance of the job I do. I'm sure many of you feel the same.

Now think about the early years provision in your local primary school. Fully funded in all areas? Well paid teachers, well paid support staff, well paid secretaries, well paid everyone. Nice warm cosy environment that is exclusively theirs? They can set things up, hold experiments, display work on the walls and leave things on the side as a display. Nice playgounds, fields, outdoor shelters? Paid time away from the classroom for planning? Run by people who know what they are doing?

The answer is probably yes to all of it.

The differences are stark and yet we are all supposed to be the same now under the EYFS. Delivering the same framework, inspected to the same standards, enabling children to achieve the same, providing the same service.

How can it be the same?

Yet it can be the same.

But only because we, the poor relations, are so committed, so hardworking, so caring, so loyal and so dedicated to the jobs we do. Its because we know how important it is, we know the difference we make, we know the value of the relationships we build and the worthiness of the sacrifices we make.

But it isn't right and it definately isn't fair.

And the government need to do something soon, they know this problem exists, OFSTED knows this problems exists, it's recurrent and happening all over the country.

Yet they do nothing.

And we just plod along and muddle through and do the very best we can.

Thank you all for reading this.

Emma x

[HappyMaz]

Welcome to the Forum, mrsW!

 

Maz

[Guest]

Oh have just spent a pleasant half hour reading all that has been said.

If any one knows my situation we were in a cold church hall and eventually got evicted because they wanted the building for themselves.

We then spent a couple of weeks with parents do rallies and letters and a petitioned walk to the borough asking for help, only to be told that the borough had supported us but because we were a private business it was not up to them to find a building for us but that they had SUPPORTED us in our endeavours. HAHA i then got a letter sent through our local MP who supported us sent to Beverly Hughes asking Ms Hughes what my PARENTS would have to do to get the local borough to help them have a new premises for their pre-school. Even threatened if they could ask for a judicial revue on the Law. This resulted in a nice letter back from Beverely Hughes saying that she had checked up with the local authority and that though she was sypathetic to our course we really should go back to our local authority as they were the ones that could help find us a building. Which incidently there was but the Councillors didn't want to commit to a building that they still had found a use for.

 

We them had a wonderfull gentleman from a local race track offer us an old building that they were renovating that we could use during the day. We still have to pack away but they have done so much to try and make it nice for us.

At that point we had to re-register with Ofsted and thought that all was going well, no problems with Ofsted they knew we had been running for 10 years and were quite happy with every thing.

 

We were then told by the LA that even though Ofsted was registering us they didn't think we came up to theire criteria so we couldn't go on the Register for the Grants.

 

They have kept us waiting all the holidays with a long list of things that we had to do, even down to looking at our staffing structure because our ADVISORY teacher didn't like it!!!!!!!!!. While Advisory teacher was on holiday!!! I have spent the whole time working through his list of demands to be told at the end of the HOLIDAYS!!!! that I can now go on the register but with extra support so that I get things right.

 

Our ad teacher is young only worked in a school and wantd to know that when he tells me something that I must take him seriously and not laugh HAHA.

After 20 years of experience and sitting through many sessions like others have described I have now had to hang my head in shame and listen and listen to the teacher otherwise I don't get any money

URGHHHHHHH

 

Some where there must be some one who listens to our situations and will not just answer with a patronizing response of a pat on the head and a there there!!!!!!

 

Can we not organize a meeting of the Forum Members in a Central location and get the ministers to listen to us.

I would be there like a shot. The last tiem I had a rant a government figure was the CWDC head and she ended up walking away because sshe couldn't convince me her way was best.

 

Feel better for that am now off to see my new Granddaughter is a week old tomorrow.

 

Love to all and keep ranting, its a good way to pass a few hours

[HappyMaz]

Our ad teacher is young only worked in a school and wantd to know that when he tells me something that I must take him seriously and not laugh HAHA.

After 20 years of experience and sitting through many sessions like others have described I have now had to hang my head in shame and listen and listen to the teacher otherwise I don't get any money

URGHHHHHHH

We are lucky that all our advisory teachers are early years savvy - and I think this should be a requirement rather than a fortunate accident. I think LAs are missing an opportunity here - advisory teachers should be qualified, experienced early years teachers first and foremost. This is especially important if they have the veto over whether a group can be said to fulfil the quality criteria in order to receive education funding.

 

When I think of all you've been through steph, I wonder how you've managed to maintain your sanity, let alone your drive and commitment. The news of your new granddaughter must have escaped me though: happy days, eh?

 

Maz

 

PS Love the idea of a Forum conference - but it could just turn into one long moan!

[Guest]

Thanks Maz

Yes there have been days that I've wondered why I carry on, but as usual it was the response from the parents that made us feel that we were doing a worthwhile job they were so adamant that "their Pre-school" was going to carry on. Thats a big thing when you are private and parents feel that we belong to them.

 

We are now going to work hard and hopefully when Ofsted come back in a few months and assess us we will get a good grade.

Thanks for the congratulations we went and saw her this afternoon and she is beautiful, its lovely because I get to see her nearly every day, so its like being a mum having the cuddles then handing back for the night duty.

 

Oh I love being a grandma!!!!!!!!

[Guest]

WOW didn't relise this post went to 7 pages b4 i could reply lol

the first rant was very interesting to me, Now its my turn lol,

 

I'm a childminder and dont have all the problems you mentioned BUT i have quite a few of my own!!

 

i have a lounge not a big hall

I had to pay (out of my own pocket) an extension to house all my "Continious Provisions" because Ofsted said i needed more.

I pay for everything from food, equipment and outings,

I DO NOT get any Grants,

I too have to plan and get all my equipment out in the morning and put away evry night (or LIVE with it all in my home)

I have been told by Ofsted to put up posters of EYFS/Ofsted, complaints and from A-Z of everything in my lounge (that has just been painted!)

I will be inspected in the same way as other settings inc. school funded nurserys and children centers

im skint as i only cared for one child for months and had an eva growing mortgage.

yet how can i compete with the new CC and funded settings, with their posh new furnature etc

how can my little setting be as good as a school run nersery and get GOOD in my Ofsted report?

and now EYFS! oh dont get me started on that.

I Felt so deflated and used like a babysitter, even some of the parent said

 

"well your not a propper teacher !! so why do you have to worry about EYFS?"

 

wow I'm luck if i get a thank you from some of my parents.

yet i have had some parents that have been very helpful, kind and understanding and to thoes id like to say thanks for the flowers and chocolates (i shared them with the kids lol)

 

this ranting realy does make me feel better sorry if i upset any one i know every one who works with children doesn't do it for the money. and I realy do enjoy my work but wanted to work from home because of my own family (im a single mum and wanted to work not stay on benefits)

 

well thats me done for now, once again sorry

Andrea

[HappyMaz]

how can my little setting be as good as a school run nersery and get GOOD in my Ofsted report

Because you care deeply about your work and the children you mind. You can offer such a valuable, personal service to the families who entrust their children's care to you, and high quality provision is not all about money and resources.

 

I'm glad you feel better for a rant: that's what we're here for!

 

Maz

[Guest]

thanks maz.

 

i do feel better and i know i do a good job because when i bump into children, that have left me 4 full time school,

they always run up to me and i get lots of huggs and i feel its all worth it just for that moment,

also one child has nagged her mum so much about how she misses me, that mum is now moving back to Blackpool and commuting to collage so her daughter can come back to my setting until she goes full time at school .... HOW ACE IS THAT!

 

i love my work and the idea of working for some one else scares me. im learning loads from this forum and many thanks to thoes who have posted BUT

 

" tell me how to turn this forum off and go to bed lol"

[Susan]

" tell me how to turn this forum off and go to bed lol"

 

 

Its the little red button with the white cross in the top right hand corner of your screen but like mine its invisible!

[HappyMaz]

also one child has nagged her mum so much about how she misses me, that mum is now moving back to Blackpool and commuting to collage so her daughter can come back to my setting until she goes full time at school .... HOW ACE IS THAT!

Wow - what a tribute to you! If only we could bottle that feeling and bring it out on the days we doubt ourselves.

[Guest]

Hello,

I'm loving the meeting idea, with ministers there to listen.

I want to print off this whole post and send it along with my reply to Beverly Hughes, maybe then she may get the point I was trying to make.

Can I do that???? Would anyone mind???

Emma x

[HappyMaz]

Can I do that???? Would anyone mind???

Emma x

I'll happily give my permission, if its needed!

[Guest]

I'll happily give my permission, if its needed!

Oh I sympathise with the rants,I know how everyone feels. It was much more fun a

few years ago, before Mrs O. and nursery grants. When Ministers didn't know about underfives,ELG's were only a figment of an over eager imagination, ratios were meant for industry and we all knew who we were and didn't need fanciful titles.

I have worked in chidcare for fiftythree years and have felt during the last couple of years that I had had enough, the red tape makes me feel like I'm in bondage. Today i looked out of the kitchen windows and decided that the report that has to be completed could wait. I didn't want to go to work. Being a self employed nursery owner/mananger did'nt appeal, but eventually duty called and I went. I lumbered up the path , the door opened and as I spoke to my deputy manager, from each playroom voices of the under threes echoed." are you alright MrsP?" "Have you had your dinner we've saved some" " Hello, hello" " where have you been/" Now Ms Hughes probably wouldn't understand how these childrens welcome and concern can turn a grumpy old woman into a quivering wreck , but this is what makes our job so special. All of you who feel down at heart look to the children and remember all the times when they have raised your spirits. Yes we do need to be valued and recognised, but when someone stops you and reminds that their newly qualified Doctor son still talks affectionately about his nursery experiences how can that be measured effectively ?

[HappyMaz]

Quite right! Your post is a timely reminder of the enormous job satisfaction that we can derive from our work, without detracting from the frustrations that attend the work we do. Undoubtedly if we were making widgets we wouldn't feel the great loyalty and kinship we all do - and it is this that keeps us trudging up the hill to work everday. I guess when the day comes that the doctor's mum's words of encouragement don't make you feel proud of what you do (or more especially don't make you feel its worth the struggle any more) then you'll know its time to give it up and stay at home.

 

And after your long career, who could blame you?

 

Welcome to the Forum, Ednaloy - you clearly have much to offer our community and I look forward to getting to know you better.

 

Maz

[dublinbay]

Hello and a warm welcome to the forum Ednaloy.

 

I'm sure your post will bring a smile to the faces to all who read it.

[Rea]

Hello,

I'm loving the meeting idea, with ministers there to listen.

I want to print off this whole post and send it along with my reply to Beverly Hughes, maybe then she may get the point I was trying to make.

Can I do that???? Would anyone mind???

Emma x

 

 

Incude this too then Emma. My old playgroup are in the process of finding temporary premisis as the church hall is having a new floor. During this time the church people have removed the padlocks on the cupboard and removed the confidential stuff, leaving it on the stage in a pile. They have also complained at how much equipment they have in the main cupboard (of which playgroup have sole use) and are now demanding that some of it be removed. All f it was bought after great thought, money being tight, so what would they possibly be able to get rid of?

 

Beverly Hughes if you're listening, there are people working within this sector who struggle daily to meet the requirements due soley to the premisis they are in and the landlords they have. These people do their absolute best to provide all the opportunities that those in a purpose built setting can offer in the way of resources and experiences. The staff are dedicated and work hard to show they are delivering the 'currculum' in the same way as a teacher would, as they will be inspected on their teaching skills even without QTS. More and more of them are gaining the FD with the sure knowledge it wont lead to higher pay, for where would the pay come from if you are employed by a charity playgroup? A bit more support here, rather than more childrens centres and surestart settings would go a good way to showing people that you do actually value them.

[Guest]

A bit more support here, rather than more childrens centres and surestart settings would go a good way to showing people that you do actually value them.

 

 

Hear hear - well put - and applicable to so many thousands of dedicated, low paid workers who just get on with it and never (well rarely) complain with their lot.

[Guest]

well said. maybe we should print off this thread and send it to beverley Hughes!!!!!

[Guest]

Hi Simcity,

Thats what i was thinking!!

em x

[Guest]

Just spent a good hour reading all these rants! Brilliant.

I am about to start the foundation degree and then onto the EYPS.... we only operate a small playgroup. I am not going to get paid £30k, will only be paid the minimum wage. Yes, I could go and get a better job, but I love it at my setting.

On top of this is the extra paperwork, the new Tracker that our EYFoundation has set up and no one really understands.

I DO NOT understand why childminders have to do the same paperwork as a foundation stage base,nurseries, playgroups???? They are completely different setting, different type of service and thats why parents chose to put their children with a childminder and not to a nursery etc.

Its all mad to me. Perhaps I should just give up and work stacking shelves - lot less paperwork!

Madness...

[Mouseketeer]

totally agree with everything in this thread........shared premises, committee run settings (its gone way beyond coffee mornings and jumble sales !) and dont get me started on that EYPSDegree ! do they really think people will stay in the settings they are intended for once they have these degrees....wake up and smell the coffee ! have just been reading through the ofsted self evaluation form, feel like scribbling read your last inspection report all across it and on top of that we have a 'quality assurance audit' this week from dorset early years team which reads like another ofsted inspection, has anyone else had this yet ? back 3 weeks, short staffed, trying to get to grips with new frame work now this !!! thanks for the rant

[Guest]

Send it Emma. CWDC said they will get in touch with Steve/Helen but have heard nothing. Go straight to the top. If they want us to speak to them direct I volunteer. I have been speaking to NDNA lately and they have asked me to volunteer to speak to DCSF direct which I am happy to do. Send a copy of this to NDNA, Nursery World, Children Now and get something started. Over 4000 people have viewed this post. Lets make it 40000.

[Guest]

Put your name here if you are prepared for DCSF to contact you direct for your views. I will e mail it to NDNA in a couple of days. PM me if you would give me e mail address or telephone number.

[NickyR]

totally agree with everything in this thread........shared premises, committee run settings (its gone way beyond coffee mornings and jumble sales !) and dont get me started on that EYPSDegree ! do they really think people will stay in the settings they are intended for once they have these degrees....wake up and smell the coffee ! have just been reading through the ofsted self evaluation form, feel like scribbling read your last inspection report all across it and on top of that we have a 'quality assurance audit' this week from dorset early years team which reads like another ofsted inspection, has anyone else had this yet ? back 3 weeks, short staffed, trying to get to grips with new frame work now this !!! thanks for the rant

 

I've had a letter sent through regarding the quality assurance audits that the early years team will be carrying out. In the past we've had joint reviews and I just assumed they had just changed the name of it to a Quality Assurance Audit. The thing I've found with the early years team in the past is that they aren't out to squash your spirits at every opportunity, they just want to work with you to ensure we provide the best for the children in our care. Their help and advice in the past has been invaluable to me. However there have also been time where I haven't agreed with them and in those instances I've found as long as you can justify your differing opinion, they will respect this. After all you are the one working in your setting all week, they only pop in to visit once in a while.

 

I haven't started our SEF paperwork yet, we haven't had any information through from Ofsted about this new way of self essessment. I emailed them the other week, but all I've had back is them thanking me for my email and that it has been passed onto the relevant department. So fingers crossed I might received some information soon. The only reason I know about it is because of this forum.

 

As for the topic of this thread, I really do feel for those settings who are in church halls ect, it must be a real struggle for you. I'm not sure how the govenment are going to improve the qualifications of the childcare workforce in all settings when the money and motivation for them to stay isn't there, on top of settings feeling the support from the powers that be aren't there either.

 

This new phase in childcare has been the hardest I've had since I started in the field 14 years ago. In the past when there have been changes and we had advice from Early Years professions through courses or just from them popping into the setting, I've felt that they've passed on good advice which made me understand the changes well. However this time I haven't had that confidence in those cascading the information down to us, in fact in some instances it's completely jumbled my initial perspective and knowledge and for a while I didn't have a clue how I was going to implement the change to the new EYFS. It was this forum that changed my attitude regarding the new framework and the various topics, advice and ideas you've all shared have helped me emmensly. It's still not perfect, but we've made a start and it's from now on that the real chages will happen because we've now got to make it work for our setting and our children, which will mean lot's of tweaking.

 

This time of year is always difficult with new children starting and with the new EYFS as well it does feel like an enormous amount of pressure. We were luckily inspected last November, so hopefully Mrs O might leave us alone for a while. But I've read from a few of you who have had your inspections within days of being back and feel that is very, very harsh.

 

The one thing that keeps me motivated and smiling is those adorable, cute little faces beaming up at me when they are enjoying their time at Nursery.

[Guest]

Send it Emma. CWDC said they will get in touch with Steve/Helen but have heard nothing. Go straight to the top. If they want us to speak to them direct I volunteer. I have been speaking to NDNA lately and they have asked me to volunteer to speak to DCSF direct which I am happy to do. Send a copy of this to Beverly Hughes, NDNA, Nursery World, Children Now and get something started. Over 4000 people have viewed this post. Lets make it 40000.

 

 

Just responding as a forum member and not as a forum moderator. I think that this topic has been a very good one in terms of sharing grievances, views, opinions between forum members. I personally wouldn't like my comments sent to NDNA, Nursery world, CDWC, children now, or any other organisation. This is not because I do not stand by my comments previously aired in this thread, but because I wrote my comments in the context of fellow forum members reading them, people who know a bit about me and my history prior to adding my views to this topic.

If I knew it may be viewed by others, the composition of my comments would be different, to maintain contexual meaning.

 

I don't think it's a bad idea to ask if other members wish to make comments that will be forwarded on to the suggested people but do think that a new topic thread should be started with a clear notice of intent to publish/send comments to others outside of the forum. Mind you if views are sent to such other organisations how will these organisations view the FSF forum? Will the FSF be seen as a lobby group, I personally wouldn't want this to happen, to me the FSF is a resource, a supportive forum with no political agenda / bias? What do others think?

 

The responses and views to this thread does seem to indicate that EY practitioners don't feel they have a 'collective' voice, however there are lots of other organisations out there speaking on behalf of EY practitioners.

 

 

 

Peggy

[Guest]

I am very happy to have my views shown to anyone who has a brain and will stop and think about the constant changes and the effects it has on the (I hate the word) Practioners and children.

We seem to be the only country in the world that seems to want to put children through constant tracking, observation and assessments. Why cant they just 'learn' to play? and be happy. Surely thats all any parent wants for their under 4 year old child?

Let our voices be heard - shared premises, low wage, constant training courses and paperwork, tracking, observations, assessments, and now SEF. All for alot of us just the minimum wage. Even a walk to the local library has to be planned in, risk assessed, first aid bag taken, etc. Before the paperwork, 10 years ago, we just went to the library. We never lost a child, never had an accident, its as if we are waiting for accidents to happen.

Lets get back to the basics of playing, talking and caring for the 'unique' child.