narnia Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 what a starched lot we are in this country!! i doubt this child is being 'force-fed', so s/he is obviously being fed on demand....the most natural thing in the world, and something which happens every single day all over the world........WHy are the British so po-faced about it??and how dare we suggest to a nursing mother that she's only doing it to assert her rights! If she's happy, the child is happy, then really, no-one else has any right to complain.I can't believe any of the other children will be traumatised by seeing this happen.......and especially if other parents just explain that the child is having his mummy's milk.Ye gods..........a breast-feeding mother!!!!!!!!whatever next??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 what a starched lot we are in this country!! i doubt this child is being 'force-fed', so s/he is obviously being fed on demand....the most natural thing in the world, and something which happens every single day all over the world........WHy are the British so po-faced about it??and how dare we suggest to a nursing mother that she's only doing it to assert her rights! If she's happy, the child is happy, then really, no-one else has any right to complain.I can't believe any of the other children will be traumatised by seeing this happen.......and especially if other parents just explain that the child is having his mummy's milk.Ye gods..........a breast-feeding mother!!!!!!!!whatever next??? I can see that you feel very strongly about this, however, this country is not as open as some of the hotter areas of Europe, let alone the rest of the world and there can be some embarrassment involved. Personally, I know my own true thoughts if a mum stood next to me and my children (aged 16, 8 & 7) and was so comfy that she just opened up and breastfed in front of them...my children were not fed in this manner, so would probably be a bit amazed - and as for my two boys, I can just imagine the rude comments they would come out with after. Maybe I am a prude, but when I ask my children to cover up their bits and bobs and they are so young isn't that a similar scenario-after all in hotter countries children roam free! Having been brought up for some time in a 'hotter European' country, I can see a difference in attitude and acceptability. I really do think it is dependant on so many factors and the situation as well as the people surrounding are all to be considered - if I could have breast fed, I would never have done it in front of my grandad for instance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rea Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 I can just imagine the look on the faces of my grandad, dad, uncles and even some friends if I'd whacked a boob out in front of them . I didnt feed mine purely because I didnt want to, I gave him one attempt, decided it felt horrible and that was that. I'm of the same opinion as you cirhossa, and I dont think its prudish, we just werent bought up to see it as an everyday occurance and so we'd rather not have to explain to our children when others feed openly. I totally agree that its natural, I would champion any womans right to do it, but I dont need to see it. Thats where the compromise has to come into it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyMaz Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 For something supposedly so 'natural' breastfeeding in public can stir up such a huge debate. There are almost as many opinions as there are people! I'd like to think that as we move on we will get more and more used to seeing breastfeeding mums - and then hopefully people will see it less and less as something distasteful. My boys will one day be someone's husband, uncle or grandad, and I hope that they will not find it odd that children are breast fed. But of course they have seen this in their own family, which obviously makes a difference. I couldn't breastfeed my daughter, but managed it with my middle son until he decided to give it up at around a year (if I remember correctly), and with my third I fed until he was very nearly three. I fed him on demand wherever I was and I have to say that I never encountered any hostility or antagonism. Had I ever been challenged I'm not sure what I would have done - I might not have been brave enough to stand up for what I would have seen as my right to feed my child when he needed to be fed without feeling the need to hide myself away (especially as this would usually have necessitated my uprooting two small children to do so). I probably would just have wanted the floor to open and swallow me whole... Maz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rea Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 I would never challenge a feeding mother with the demand that she cover herself or move to a different place. I suppose I would have to move if it caused me to feel uncomfortable. But, after saying that, I dont see many feeding mothers, and those I do see are usually discrete, i.e. you can see she's feeding but nothing else. What I object to is seeing the whole breast, as I'm sure many people do. Like I said earlier in this thread, I still remember seeing my aunt feeding my cousin and the whole thing horrified me, to give the detail, the nipple was something I truly remember to be massive! I was embarresed but felt compelled to look which lead to further embaressment when she looked at me!! I was about 4 years old but the image has stayed with me, so I can understand children may not want to see it and their parents may not want to have to explain it. In an ideal world the whole process should be seen as just a child feeding, but some of us have hang ups. Yes, they are our hang ups and so I suppose you could say they are our problem which we should learn how to deal with, but I would still hope that any mother would be aware that not everyone is comfortable with it. Maybe with todays youth been so open about every other aspect of their lives (I have a teenager who asks me the most blood curdling things) this old fashioned view will eventually disappear, along with us dinosaurs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
louby loo Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 I managed to breastfeed my daughter descretly for just over two years - However I feel there are long term outcomes for this practice - as twenty years later she still seems to feel most comfortable with a duvet over her head! xxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 Born in '63 my mum says she was pressured to breast feed me for 6 weeks and HATED every minute of it and resented me for making her feel like that .I wonder if thats why we have a difficult relationship? or even more I'm an only child? Its mothers choice not society and society must support the choice the mother makes either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyMaz Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 I was about 4 years old but the image has stayed with me, so I can understand children may not want to see it and their parents may not want to have to explain it. A powerful point, eloquently made Rea. It goes right back to where this discussion started really: where one person's rights meet another's and the need for compromise to afford both parties some degree of comfort. I'm sure if I'd had a similar experience with a marauding nipple when I was small I wouldn't have wanted to breastfeed my babies, and had I been confronted with a mum who was breastfeeding with everything on display I would feel very uncomfortable indeed. Luckily for everyone around me I have my own hang ups about my body: so I was always swathed under an avalanche of t-shirt or jumper so no-one was any the wiser about what I was doing most of the time Maz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
narnia Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 I do feel quite strongly about this subject, yes.I still think t's a sad state of affairs that it causes so much unease in this country.but,ah well, i have no more babies to feed,so i won't be displaying my bits and pieces to the world! I always did it, i think, discretely.I was also brought up in a hot country, where in fact, it was common to see elderly grandmothers suckling their grandchildren...............and i don't recall being embarrassed by it at all, it just seemed to be what it is....perfectly natural. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyMaz Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 Born in '63 my mum says she was pressured to breast feed me for 6 weeks and HATED every minute of it I'm a '63 baby too. Mum's not around to ask, but I don't think she even considered breastfeeding me. But then I was her fourth child so that might have had something to do with it! Maz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deb Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 I'm a 63 baby too! Don't think my Mum even considered breast feeding me either but then I'm a twin! It was hard enough for me breast feeding one baby at a time can't imagine how you would feed two. Firmly believe breast feeding has a lot to do with the character of the child as well, my middle chiild was the easiest to feed and the most laid back character as he turned out. Going back to this thread, think part of the original problem was the age of the child, but how can anyone put an age on what is an acceptable age to breast feed up to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 18, 2008 Share Posted March 18, 2008 Firmly believe breast feeding has a lot to do with the character of the child as well, my middle chiild was the easiest to feed and the most laid back character as he turned out. so thats what mum meant we she said I was always difficult Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Running Bunny Posted March 20, 2008 Share Posted March 20, 2008 Just caught up on this thread (too busy breastfeeding!!) It's certainly an interesting topic and I think that it has been handled in the right way - the mum was obviously oblivious to the fact that she had caused offence/put other parents on the spot and was doing what she thought natural and best for her child (although as others have said - demand feeding a toddler? I hope Eva doesn't turn out to be that needy) Equally though, the situation that this mum has (unkowingly) put other parents/carers in has to be looked at - I have successfully and exclusively breastfed Eva now for 11weeks and have done so in the back of the car in service stations on the way to visit my parents and at the weekend in the lounge of a restaurant before and after havinga family meal - however, I did ask if everyone was happy with me doing this to ensure that no-one was embarrased and I would have gone to the car if necessary (although if people took objection, perhaps they should be the ones to move?) Also, when I have had friends round with young chidren, I have told them that Eva may need to feed whilst they are here and are they okay with it - my nephew, who is 4 didn't even notice (!) and my 5 year old god daughter asked what I was doing and her mum replied with enough information to satisfy her curiosity whilst telling the truth. It's great that she is prepared to talk to the other parents and it sounds as though this could be on the way to being resolved.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisD Posted March 20, 2008 Share Posted March 20, 2008 Hi I don't often respond to forum topics but as said earlier this is an emotive issue. I just wonder if anyone shares my horror of toddlers left in pushchairs etc with bottles shoved in their mouths to keep them quiet and whether parents would raise this as a complaint. I have recently attended a breast feeding awareness training and would like to point out that breasts are actually designed purposely to feed babies and young infants and that whilst males and indeed females may be embarrassed about seeing a mother breastfeeding there is an acceptance of bare breasts/topless models and many male oriented magazines make money out of this. It seems to me that the breast in this country is associated more with sex than feeding and this is why so many people feel uncomfortable about it. As for breastfeeding rights women in this country do have a right to feed their baby in public. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
narnia Posted March 20, 2008 Share Posted March 20, 2008 had a mum ask if it was ok to breastfeed her 5 week old baby at our setting today, which of course i happily agreed to, she sat quietly in our book corner and not one child asked what she was doing.I told her about this thread and she asked if i wanted her to stop feeding, and obviously, i said no, i was perfectly happy for her to continue.As we talked about this topic she did say that if other parents complained and it was brought to her attention she would probably tell them to 'get knotted', but then be too embarrassed to come back to the group! i think Chris D has hit the nail on the head though, in that we do seem to associate breasts with sex in this country..................but there is also the argument that we go to beaches and see many women topless and no-one bats an eyelid at that, so why do we get so upset about simple breastfeeding?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 Writing this on my laptop at the same time as breastfeeding my 20 month old - so you can imagine where I stand on this! The main objection seemed to be the age of the child and that she wasn't being discrete: but when feeding, the nipple is in the mouth, and most skin covered by face, hands, body, clothes etc., so how indiscrete can she be? Re the age of the baby, how can anyone suggest that any animal who still needs milk according to all medical experts, should be given another animal's milk, made for a different animal with different nutritional needs? Surely if the child still needs milk, the most natural and appropriate milk that it can get is that which his/her mother of the same species makes! How can anyone argue against that? I live in a hotter European country (Valencia in Spain) and I would say people here are even less used to seeing breastfeeding mothers and babies and are even less tolerant of older babies feeding in public or in private. Personally I choose to feed my daughter only in the company of people I know now, whereas I did it anywhere and everywhere when she was younger. (Would you like to eat in a toilet cubicle as some people suggest?) But any mother should have the right to feed her child when and where they want, and if people don't like it, don't look! As for their children - are they so sexually aware at pre-school age that they know breasts are an object of sexual desire? Surely a simple explanation of some mothers feed their children from their breasts - they make milk - is an educational and informative answer. Sorry for ranting, not against you here of course! Just needed to get it off my chest - pardon the pun! I hope that you now have the situation sorted- you were very tactful and helpful - and let us know the reaction of the 2 complainers. Lynne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dublinbay Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 Hola Lynne, Just wanted to say hi and welcome to the forum. Looking forward to hearing about life in sunny Spain if you ever want to share. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyMaz Posted March 22, 2008 Share Posted March 22, 2008 It seems to me that the breast in this country is associated more with sex than feeding and this is why so many people feel uncomfortable about it. As for breastfeeding rights women in this country do have a right to feed their baby in public. Good point, Chris - I doubt whether most parents would feel comfortable in complaining about toddlers being left with bottles in their mouths as you describe because it is a direct criticism of someone's parenting skills/style. Perhaps they feel they can complain about a woman bearing more of her breasts than they feel is necessary on the grounds of 'public decency' - and if so this would completely back up what you say about breasts being seen more as sexual objects than as feeding apparatus. What a thought provoking post! Maz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyMaz Posted March 22, 2008 Share Posted March 22, 2008 i think Chris D has hit the nail on the head though, in that we do seem to associate breasts with sex in this country..................but there is also the argument that we go to beaches and see many women topless and no-one bats an eyelid at that, so why do we get so upset about simple breastfeeding?? Pehaps it is about the situation, then? After all when you are walking down the beach you are probably fully expecting to be confronted with scantily clad people in all shapes and sizes. Perhaps there is more shock value when you are 'exposed' to bare breasts in a pre-school setting or on the high street? Maz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue R Posted March 22, 2008 Share Posted March 22, 2008 I'd like to think that as we move on we will get more and more used to seeing breastfeeding mums - and then hopefully people will see it less and less as something distasteful. Maz That to me is the saddest thing about this thread; that a need is seen for us to 'move on' to accept breastfeeding in public. Wherever would we be if that had always been the attitude - extinct?? I simply cannot believe that this can evoke such polarised responses in people in a supposedly enlightened age. Please be assured I'm not aiming this at membership here, I have many friends and acquaintances who have similarly varied views, including one who was berated by her mother for being 'dirty' by breast-feeding! feeling very puzzled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyMaz Posted March 22, 2008 Share Posted March 22, 2008 I simply cannot believe that this can evoke such polarised responses in people in a supposedly enlightened age. I think what this debate proves is that now matter how educated we are - or how inclusive we try to be - our attitudes are often so deep rooted that they are difficult to change no matter how powerful the arguments against our point of view might be. In a lighthearted fashion I'd say that the fact that everyone is different makes life interesting. However, for someone who has been castigated by their own mother in the way you describe Sue, I can only imagine the consequences for their self esteem. How very sad. Maz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deb Posted March 22, 2008 Share Posted March 22, 2008 You don't even have to go to the beach! Some clothes leave little to the imagination with breasts openly on display in our society yet some people take offence at a breast feeding mother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LizJ Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 Can you help the parent who feeds to compromise? She has every right to feed her child, but other parents have the right to protect their child from seeing it if thats what they wish. I dont know what you'll do if she says no though. My first post here, I'll post a welcome in a bit! Just had to reply to this though, sorry it's a bit late and I'm sure it's all resolved by now. I'm intrigued why you say parents have the right to protect their child from seeing it. What exactly should they be protected from? It's crazy that people get offended about something so natural but we see bottles and formula everywhere and nobody is ever told to hide away and bottlefeed! I realise I am biased as my boys never had bottle but I'd much rather they saw a woman breastfeeding a toddler than bottlefeeding one or giving it a dummy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 11, 2008 Share Posted May 11, 2008 My first post here, I'll post a welcome in a bit! Just had to reply to this though, sorry it's a bit late and I'm sure it's all resolved by now. I'm intrigued why you say parents have the right to protect their child from seeing it. What exactly should they be protected from? It's crazy that people get offended about something so natural but we see bottles and formula everywhere and nobody is ever told to hide away and bottlefeed! I realise I am biased as my boys never had bottle but I'd much rather they saw a woman breastfeeding a toddler than bottlefeeding one or giving it a dummy! Sorry to be crude - but I always remember someone saying that if breastfeeding in public is a sexual act - then is giving a dummy or bottle like using a sex toy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyMaz Posted May 11, 2008 Share Posted May 11, 2008 Sorry to be crude - but I always remember someone saying that if breastfeeding in public is a sexual act - then is giving a dummy or bottle like using a sex toy? Its an interesting point of view - is there something here that can be explained in Freudian terms? Maz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 11, 2008 Share Posted May 11, 2008 A slightly different angle, my son was born premature and I was unable to breastfeed (he was tube fed for 6 weeks). Many years later, in fact when he was aged 7 yrs he saw a film of a woman breastfeeding on TV, he called me into the room urgently, "Ugh mum, did I do that?" he asked, "No unfortunately you didn't you were too small when you were born", "PHEW" was his response. Obviously he was at the 'silly' age of 'bum, poo, willy, fart, tits or boobs' words and the thought of actually being attached to my breasts was, it seemed at the time, absolutely 'silly' to him. I explained the naturalness and goodness of breastfeeding and he accepted these facts with a final comment of "well, I'm glad I'm small" I personally regret not being able to breastfeed and I think would have been a 'public' breastfeeder, if demand warrented it, and would have voiced my sons right (not my right) to be fed when needed, wherever his food source, ie: me, might happen to be. I also believe that if 'observing' children are embarressed, upset, affected in any negative way then this has come from their parents. I think children should be educated as to the benefits and naturalness of breastfeeding, and that predjudice, in whatever form is wrong, even if their elders hold such predjudice. If we as a society condone (by feeling embarrased when we view it) the 'showing' of breasts for the purpose of breastfeeding as having 'sexual' links to it, then we are letting down women. It's no better than saying a scantily dressed woman has asked to be attacked (by a man) just because of the way she dressed. Women should not be made to feel 'wrong' for using their breasts for what they are meant for, or wearing clothes to attract partners. Both these acts do not give anyone the right to abuse them by seeing anything more in it than what it is. off my soapbox now. Peggy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyMaz Posted May 11, 2008 Share Posted May 11, 2008 off my soapbox now. I wouldn't disagree with the sentiment behind what you say Peggy (and how could I as an active, and prolific public breastfeeder for several years) - but the truth is many of us have had an upbringing which has led to certain parts of our body having only negative or sexual connotations. Such deeply held beliefs are difficult to shake (and takes a real willingness on the part of the person involved to do the work necessary to change these feelings). I'm not sure I know what the answer is - I guess all we can do is challenge people's thinking and stand up for our babies' rights to be fed wherever and whenever they need to be. However I wonder if there is also a responsibility that goes with the assertion of these rights - and a need to achieve a balance so that everyone's sensibilities are protected to whatever degree that is possible. I think whoever solves this problem would be rightly entitled to a Nobel peace prize! Maz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 11, 2008 Share Posted May 11, 2008 QUOTE "a responsibility that goes with the assertion of these rights - and a need to achieve a balance so that everyone's sensibilities are protected to whatever degree that is possible. I totally agree, respect the views of others, but what choice has the child who is screaming for his/her basic right of food I don't think I'll be winning the nobel prize. Peggy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hali Posted May 11, 2008 Share Posted May 11, 2008 difficult one isnt it- i loved breast feeding my too - but did find it difficult in public situations (not assertive me) but totally agree with Maz and Peggy points of view Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyMaz Posted May 11, 2008 Share Posted May 11, 2008 I totally agree, respect the views of others, but what choice has the child who is screaming for his/her basic right of food I think some would argue that it is possible to breastfeed discreetly and without showing lots of flesh - thereby meeting the right of the child to be fed and the wishes of others not to feel uncomfortable. If there was a Nobel prize for devil's advocacy I might just sneak it, Peggy! Maz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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