15 Hours - From Sept 2008

[Guest]

Hi, sorry if this has already been discussed but I am started to panic a bit. After thinking we had until 2010 to sort this out I have now found out our LEA has been chosen to start in Sept 2008. We currently offer a morning (9.00-11.30) amd afternoon (1.00-3.30) session. Like many others we have an hour for lunch and no other breaks. We use the 1/2 hr between 11.15-11.45 (usually only 10 mins by the time all children go) for admin, assessment etc.

 

I could really do with some suggestions about how we could manage the extended hours please. So far all suggestions from SMT seem to lead to working an extra hour a day (contact time) which will obviously mean more time spent working at home. Also would mean staggered lunch times for staff which isn't ideal and doesn't give much time to mix with the rest of the school. He is understanding about this but doesn't seem a way round it. Any ideas please?

[Rea]

I think a lot of settings will have the same concerns.

I'm not involved enough to know what is and isnt allowed, but is there anything to say that all the sessions have to be 3 hours? I mean, could the mornings be 3 hours for the funded children perhaps and the afternoon sessions remain at 2.5 hours for the younger children? 9-12 and 1-3.30.

[Guest]

not worked out all the logistics yet - fortunately we have until 2010 in our authority - but when we were discussing ways to introduce the 15 hours one suggestion that we came up with was to go to doing 2i/2 days per week for each p/t group??? Don't know if this is any help????

[dublinbay]

We start after Easter in Leicestershire.

Our new hours will be 8.30 - 11.30 with an hour in between and then 12.30 - 3.30.

Parents and staff were consulted and these times were then decided on.

The primary school, whose grounds we are situated in, begins at 8.45 am so I imagine our children will be coming in dribs and drabs until 9 am.

Don't know how I feel about the whole thing yet.

2010 will see Leicestershire go to 20 hour entitlements. Now that will be interesting!!!

[Sue R]

As I understand it, here in Nottingham the extended etitlement is over the whole week, so parents could use their hours for a couple of full days mixed in, if you see what I mean - although that's ok for us, Daycare, I suppose it could still pose problems for sessional providers.

 

Was that any help at all?

 

Sue

[Guest]

We already are working on 15 hr entitlement.

 

Our parents use it for either 5 morning sessions or they can use if for coming say three mornings with lunch club clubs which the majority use and then pay anything outstanding the parents have really found that the 15 hr entitlement simplified things for them. It certainly helps with numbers as we were really struggling in Sept.

[fizzy]

Our 15 hours start after easter too. we are going from 9.15-11.45 to 9.15-12.15. just added it on to the end. This is what our parents wanted. we sent a letter out and got parents to circle their prefered starting time ie 8.45, 9, 9.15 ect. we couldnt give that much choice but it worked for our small sessional pre school

[hali]

dont know is the answer

[HappyMaz]

dont know is the answer

When will we have to offer it in Windsor and Maidenhead, hali?

 

I suppose logistically for me it won't be so bad - we already do a three hour session so fitting in the time isn't a problem. The difficulty will be if the NEG doesn't cover the hourly rate - because we won't be able to charge a higher rate for the extra half hour, comparatively speaking.

 

Maz

[Guest Wolfie]

Does anyone know if we can find out anywhere when all the different authorities are introducing it? Is there a website or anything?

[hali]

im not sure Maz - not yet though i dont think

[Jester]

Our 15 hours start after easter too. we are going from 9.15-11.45 to 9.15-12.15. just added it on to the end. This is what our parents wanted. we sent a letter out and got parents to circle their prefered starting time ie 8.45, 9, 9.15 ect. we couldnt give that much choice but it worked for our small sessional pre school

 

Sorry its OT but what a great avater Fizzy!

[Guest]

We start in Luton from Sept 2008 and we have decided that our best option is to run from 8.45-11.45 and 12.15-3.15 to fit in with the rest of the school (primary) The head is planning to cover the staff lunch breaks with additional staff who will also help with the clearing and setting up. It will mean the staff will have to have staggered lunch breaks which isn't ideal. The head is adamant that we do not want children to be coming in for 3 sessions of 5hrs as this will mean that the age groups will be mixed. Our 3yr olds come in the afternoons and the 4's in the morning at the moment. The head feels that if children can come at any time we will be offering child care rather than an education. I am not sure if she can ignore the word "fllexible"

[Guest]

Thanks everyone. I know there will be ways around it but just concerned that we will be doing 1 hr extra contact time a week which will really eat into home / after school times if we still want to do the job to the same standard. I think the 'flexibility' aspect will be our main issue when you think about planning, coverage, groupings etc.

[catma]

has anyone consulted any teaching unions about any increase in directed hours for nursery class teachers - as you would still only be required to do the 1,600 and whatever the figure is the same as any other qualified teacher. If theoretically you are doing 2 x 3 hour sessions that is 2.5 hours contact time a week more than the rest of the staff. you would then have to account for the additional directed time but I'm not sure that can be used for contact time - it's usually staff meetings etc that you are required to be on site for. Lunch breaks only need to be "reasonable" and as reasonably close to the middle of the day as is practicably possible, no right to an hour so this might be used to take up slack, but what then if you have less lunch break than colleagues??? Does this become an equality issue?? Be very interested if anyone has sought advice.

Cx

[Rea]

I mentioned this to a friend today who was told by the PLA DW, that you dont have to offer the 3 hour sessions. You can stay at 2.5 hours but you obviously wont get the extra funding.

Has anyone else heard that take on it all?

[hali]

i have a feeling my chairperson was told that - but dont quote me!!!!!

[HappyMaz]

I can categorically say that you definitely don't have to offer 15 hours... probably!

 

Some settings who are in shared premises just can't offer the extra hours because of other users, so there has to be some flexibility, I'd have thought.

 

But what do I know?

 

Maz

[Guest]

In Bristol it is already the case that you don't have to offer either the full 12 1/2 hours or the full 38 weeks. the funding is calculated pro rata.

[Guest]

Hi as some of you know we have been offering 15 hours since April 2007.

 

In hampshire to join the project the big word was "Flexible" - parents had to have the opportunity to select what hours they want to attend. We were a morning only pre-school offering sessional care.

 

Parents can now select what time the children start - so far they have opted for 9.30 starts and 10am and then can select how long the children stay. some leave at 12, some 12.30 and some at 1.00pm. Buying our time by the hour.

Also the minimum children can sign up for is 1hr and yes one child has just opted to take that.

 

I have had to change how I look at our plan-I no longer look at day as a session, it is very flexible with children joining and leaving throughout. Is does mean we have few children at the start and end of the day, but that is why we received the extra funding.

 

What next for us - we are looking to increase our sessions from 9.30 - 2.30. This will give the option for parents to take the five hours consective if they want or part of a day. Many parents have said they want a couple of longer days, but some half days. Booking will take some juggling - but it normally does.

 

Personally I love the flexible option

[Guest]

I have spoken to my union rep (ATL) and as I work 0.5 I will be entitled to extra pay for the extra hours and for the young teacher who is full time he said that she would be entitled to time off in lieu ie 2 days a month. This is if we work 8-30 till 11-30 and 12-15 till 3-15, just doing 2x3hour sessions. we are also thinking of having help for an hour maybe from 11-00 or 11-15am to wash paint pots, tidy, prepare for the afternoon session etc etc.In fact all the jobs we did once the children had gone which we won't have time for. Not sure when we will ever get together as a team as my NNEB are on what is refered to as an 'old' contract and have their hours stated as 8-30 till 3-30 with 30 mins for lunch. Not sure what will happen if we get loads of parents who want full days. We have to have it all inplace by September at the latest

[Guest]

HI

I work in Wiltshire which usually seems to be behind everywhere else! Haven't heard when this will be coming in for us yet but we provide sessions from 9 - 11.30, lunch from 11.30 til 12.15, then an afternoon session from 12.30 - 3.00. Staff work from 8.30 - 3.30 and we have a paid 20 minute lunch break where we stay on site. Half of us have lunch with the children and the other half take over for packing away lunch and getting them ready to go home.

If this comes in for us we may stop doing lunches with the kids to fit it in but not sure if this will work as have heard that we may be required to provide 2 days of full day care to meet new requirment that may be coming in.

 

We are lucky in that we have 5 staff for 26 children in our sessions so one meber of staff a day gets to write up their folders for 1and 1/2 hours each day, so if it changes they won't need to spend more time at home working.

 

Annie B

[Guest]

There seems to be lots of issues coming up!! Another one for me personally is that if we have a shorter lunch break / different lunch times to the rest of the school /have to work longer hours etc - I will struggle to maintain my current role on the SLT. Currently I am able to spend my 'extra' bit in the day (11.15-11.45) in main school when needed so can support the F2 classes and teachers in my role as FS leader. I just feel like it's all coming very suddenly. Our LEA has known since November but we have only just been informed!

[Guest]

has anyone consulted any teaching unions about any increase in directed hours for nursery class teachers - as you would still only be required to do the 1,600 and whatever the figure is the same as any other qualified teacher. If theoretically you are doing 2 x 3 hour sessions that is 2.5 hours contact time a week more than the rest of the staff. you would then have to account for the additional directed time but I'm not sure that can be used for contact time - it's usually staff meetings etc that you are required to be on site for. Lunch breaks only need to be "reasonable" and as reasonably close to the middle of the day as is practicably possible, no right to an hour so this might be used to take up slack, but what then if you have less lunch break than colleagues??? Does this become an equality issue?? Be very interested if anyone has sought advice.

Cx

 

 

We are still in the early stages of planning for extended hours, although this has to be in place for Sept 2008 (Kirklees Authority). We are in the process of consulting parents through questionnaires as to their preferences. One suggestion was to have a breakfast club (8.30 - 9.00) where new staff will be employed to provide this. Our session would remain 9 - 11.30 staff contact time. The afternoon session would commence 1.00 - 3.30pm staff contact time and an after school option would be offered until 4.00 (staff employed to cover this). There would therefore be no impact on current staff's contractual hours. We are still looking into this like everyone else though! Guidelines ask that a school provides the extra hours how they can best offer it. We are yet to have questionnaires back and so it maybe that parents prefer full days including a lunchtime Aaaargh!

[Marion]

We already have longer actual "contact" time because we don't have "playtimes"

[HappyMaz]

Welcome to the Forum, karenchick

 

It all sounds very confusing to me...

 

Maz

[anju]

looks like lots of different ways of implementing the 15 hours and different LEAs at varying stages, hmmm....

 

I've been told we wouldn't have to offer full flexibility from this sept (ie open for 5 hours each day) which is just as well as I don;t think we can use the premises that long every day although we probably could for say 3 days per week. I don't know what will happen from sept 09 though.

 

I am hoping to open the 3 hours each day from sept 08 and was hoping existing staff would agree to staying the extra 30 mins and obviously they would be paid for this. but i think one will refuse and she is crucial to the team. presumably if her existing contract states a certain number of hours we can't insist this is increased? it's just that i don't think it would be good for key person duties, feeding back to parents etc if that person isn't there at the end of each session.

 

the LEA person I spoke to said they will decide by end June which settings will pilot the 15 hours in our area so between now and then it's a bit of a guessing game.

 

thanks to all who replied to my other post on this topic - sorry didn't see this one, I am getting used to the site still!

[catma]

We already have longer actual "contact" time because we don't have "playtimes"

 

I'm querying it on the actual hours children in ks1 and ks2 are required to be in school/being taught and questioning whether the increase in nursery hours increases those hours for nursery teachers.

Often the playtime is taken by finishing for lunch earlier than everyone else isn't it?

 

in relation to info about LAs I think it's on the every child matters website.

Cx

Edited April 15, 2008 by catma