Nativity Or No Nativity

[Sue R]

Well said, Rea!

 

Sue

[hali]

wowww wooo the Rea fan club - well done Rea totally agree

[Marion]

Surely that's a good omen: means the 'real' performances will be just fab!

 

Maz

 

Unfortunately it was the real performance ( we are doing two nativities with separate groups of children)

[Marion]

Well yesterday we had a few "technical" difficulties. The head has purchased a lovely new sound system which unfortunately doesn't include a track counter so every time the poor student pressed play the CD started from the first song this completely confused the children. Two "newish" children who transferred from another school first screamed until they went to sit with their mother from where they "heckled" the rest of the children who bravely plodded on.

 

Today an angel who was sitting on the raised stage suddenly for no apparent reason toppled head first from her seat hitting the floor...........apart from that all went well.

 

Now tomorrow we start rehearsals for the carol concert next week

[SmileyPR]

Oh, Marion ! Hope this comes out smoother next week. We will have our Christmas Concert next Tuesday. Today we had our 1st rehearsal in our brand new stage. Some younger children were screaming during some songs, so I asked them what sounded better... if I sang it properly (and sang it like that) or if I screamed it (and then did so). You should have seen their faces . They understood and did it better afterwards. I hope they still remember by then... :wacko: .

Edited December 11, 2007 by SmileyPR

[HappyMaz]

Oh, Marion ! Hope this comes out smoother next week. We will have our Christmas Concert next Tuesday. Today we had our 1st rehearsal in our brand new stage. Some younger children were screaming during some songs, so I asked them what sounded better... if I sang it properly (and sang it like that) or if I screamed it (and then did so). You should have seen their faces . They understood and did it better afterwards. I hope they still remember by then... :wacko: .

Smiley this is a fantastic idea! Must try it myself next time. Mind you, they might not notice the difference with my singing!

 

Maz

[HappyMaz]

I'd agree that a multi-cultural Christmas is a bit of a non-starter as much as a multi-cultural divali or hannukah.

 

Our Christmas celebration this year is a bit of a departure for us - we don't usually have any songs about the nativity all. I'm not sure why - it has just happened that way. This year we have our baby in a manger, wise men, shepherds and our lovely red-headed boy angels. I don't think there will be a dry eye in the house. Its my first Christmas as owner, so I'll be interested to see how the parents react.

 

Interesting what Rea said about the Lord's Prayer - it is so much a part of life that I'm also surprised when others don't know it and get really irritated by the modern version too. I just can't get my head round the fact that the words I have been saying since I was a child have changed. I'm beginning to sound like my mum who used to complain about the guitar groups at evening Mass!

 

Every group needs to do what they feel is best but it is easy to see how groups begin to 'run scared' by whatever is rumoured to be Ofsted's latest wheeze and get paranoid trying to second guess what they might say next.

 

I think we need to be brave, be true to what we believe and be prepared to justify what we do to whoever questions what we do and why. I hope Mrs Ofsted has a big jumper - I propose to go on suggesting things she can stuff up there. Perhaps she can play a heavily pregnant Mary at next year's nativity!

 

Maz

[dublinbay]

Ha! Ha! Very well said Maz.

I can just see it now - Mrs. Ofsted with the lumpy jumper!!

 

I agree wholeheartedly with what has been said on this thread - we shouldn't feel ashamed or embarrassed by inststing we tell the real story of Christmas.

 

We have a parent come into our setting to tell the story of Diwali, we make biscuits and talk about the reason behind making rangoli patterns on the doorsteps. Why then do some of us feel we can't tell 'The Greatest Story Ever Told'?

 

A lot of our children know this story already and join in when we read the nativity story at group story time. There are others who know nothing but do say they enjoy the stories.

 

The muslim van driver who delivered my parcel the other day wished me a happy Christmas and I wished him the same back and he said thanks - Thats real multi-culturalism at work and one in the eye for the so-called 'do gooding, thumb-sucking P. C . brigade'.

 

Hah! Rant over - Joy to the world!.................

 

[Guest]

This will be (tomorrow) my 54th Nativity and I think I've seen it all but every year something happens-fighting shepherds-puddles under angels-Hi mum!-Innkeepers who let in/won't let in-donkeys snoring-refusals to dress.Still every year Christmas magic happens and the throat constricts only now it tends to be me watching parents reactions that does it.

 

I will always argue for a traditional nativity in Early years.We celebrate Divali by telling Rama and Sita or chinese new year with the race story so how can the children understand the reason for celebration without the basis beening explained.I was really disappointed when my daughter was a snowman at her nursery and that was a church school which was my choice for a Christian education Secular christmas activities are always done after the Nativity in our setting.

 

I always make my telling relevant to the children's experience-no cars like today-happiness at the arrival of a new baby.

[Guest]

Maz, talking of pregnant Mary's -

I had a christmas baby and that year I could really sympathise with Mary riding all that way on a donkey.... no wonder the baby was born as soon as she got to Bethlehem!!

[Guest]

Not really about the Nativity but in need of a rant.Driven passed McDonald's today and they are advertising

 

'Open Christmas Day 12-6pm-full menu available'.

 

They are even open Christmas Eve until 2am!

[Guest]

Well,

 

I think I'll bury my head in the sand and wait til it's over!

 

 

I don't want to upset anyone, but the question was really whether this was a rumour or truth. Do Ofsted have the ability to mark you down if you don't do the traditional?

 

 

As far as the traditional goes, my parents have expressed that doing Noah's arc is a nice idea. It's not been done like that to appease those who are of different faiths, but as a way of not going through the stresses which we and the children incurred last time.

 

I enjoy a traditional nativity too, but you really have to ensure that those who are front of house can cope too.

 

We may have a full house of adults watching as last year (at least 80 adults) and it is difficult to cope with the tearful one, the quiet one and the noisy one between myself (who narrates, leads etc) and the deputy who leads them out.

 

We will still sing a wealth of traditional songs and will wish everyone a Merry Christmas.

 

The multi-cultural foods being bought for the party afterwards deem to be fantastic, and I am proud to offer the children and parents such a wealth of experience.

[Rea]

Well I for one wasnt upset at all, I appologise if thats how I came across.

I really didnt want you to think I was imposing my view, it was merely my personal thoughts on any festivals and my reason for keeping traditions intact.

 

As to your original post, I'd say from reading of all the ways people have of doing the nativity, your question regarding Ofsted has been answered. I dont think , as a body, they would dare to prefer one way over another when there are so many variartions, but thats not accounting for individual inspectors tastes.

[HappyMaz]

I don't want to upset anyone, but the question was really whether this was a rumour or truth. Do Ofsted have the ability to mark you down if you don't do the traditional?

Probably the only way we can answer this is by ringing Ofsted to ask. However, I'm sure they'd say something vague about them not giving advice on such matters, but saying that groups need to decide for themselves.

 

Perhaps Ofsted should take out a subscription to the Forum specifically to contribute to an "Ask Ofsted" section...

 

I think that what our various replies show is that there are many different ways of handling the traditional Christmas 'performance' for parents. Ofsted may tell us that our observation and assessment systems are no good or that our outdoor provision needs more attention, but I'd say that if they start to tell us how to celebrate Christmas with our children and their families they may just find they have gone a step too far!

 

These matters are so bound up with the ethos and tradition of individual groups that to impose an 'authorised' method of celebrating Christmas (or Divali, Chinese New Year etc) would be bound to cause uproar!

 

Most of what is said about Ofsted is (thankfully) urban myth and the only way to separate truth from fiction is to ask them. Unless someone from Ofsted is actually prepared to confirm it to you in person (or write it in an inspection report) it is likely to be a rumour.

 

Unless of course, you know different...

 

Maz

[Guest]

The only reason I asked the question is that someone who I know said that their friend who works for Ofsted had mentioned this to them....however, I'm not sure whether that is true as they are the only one to express a different opinion.

 

No offence taken and I'm happy to enter into a good ole barter regarding Ofted - good idea about their having a slot on the forum!

[Marion]

I'm not sure how OFSTED would know if a school favoured a traditional nativity or not unless they inspected during the nativity so guess it's one of those questions with no clear answer (aren't all OFSTED questions that way?) Could it be the opinion of a particular inspector who has spoken to your friend's friend?

[bubblejack]

Yes I agree Marion, unless Ofsted were actually present they probably would never ask any way.Personally we feel very comfortable doing a nativity with 60 children age 2-4.9years so it works for our group because the adults are comfortable with it. Sometimes you just have to do what you feel is right for you and your group.

[HappyMaz]

I'm not sure how OFSTED would know if a school favoured a traditional nativity or not unless they inspected during the nativity so guess it's one of those questions with no clear answer (aren't all OFSTED questions that way?)

If you have photograph albums in your setting no doubt the Inspector would look here for evidence such as whether you go on trips, how you celebrate or promote awareness of festivals or other cultures etc. I guess the absence of photos of children dressed as Mary and Joseph would give the game away. I'm always amazed at what Ofsted inspectors see when they don't appear to be looking at anything in particular....

 

Maz

[Guest]

Next year when we move, we'll be able to do a little nativity outside with straw and a manger and it'll be lovely.

 

As we are moving however (and renaming too), the current setting will close it's doors at Easter (hopefully-if all goes well). so no need to keep too many photographic records as we will start up as a new setting! Yippee x

[SmileyPR]

Oh, I don't know if it is because I am feeling a bit sensitive (far away from my country) but I went to our school web site and almost cried seeing my sweet angels Preschool/Kindergarten Christmas Concert. I hope you enjoy it.

 

Ours Christmas Concert came out well. It wasn't something complicated nor a Nativity, just a simple caroling.

 

Rudolph The Red Nosed Reindeer (K1 - K3)

Twinkle Twinkle Little Star (K1)

Jingle Bells (K2)

Silent Night (with British Sign Language)... my class (K3)

We Wish You a Merry Christmas (K1 - K3)

Feliz Navidad (K1 - K3)

 

I hope you all had a nice time with your little ones.

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year 2008 !

Edited December 26, 2007 by SmileyPR

[Marion]

Lovely thanks for sharing

[Guest]

Well I'm going to throw the cat among the kittens because I'm not religious at all and I think that Pre-school should be about fun!!!!! We do a play of the Elves and the Shoemaker and the moral is to look after others and they will look after you. Most of my parents aren't religious and the ones the are and we have most faith amongst them seem to think the idea of a fun play is great. I posted it on here before its great for the children they listen to the story and learn when to go off to "bed" (when to hide) and when to come back on. We have Elves, Spiders Mice Stars and Fireflys We have a Shoe maker and his wife and a lovely lady and husband.

The parents think it is marvellous.

We started doing it 9 years ago and last year did a story about the toys that a parent writer wrote for us but it wasn't the same.

So this year we went back to the Elves and the Shoemaker. We practice for a few weeks maybe 3/4 times then the last week 2/3 times it always looks as though its going to be a disaster but comes right on the day and so what if a firefly doesn't shake his or her bottom at the right time or the spiders don't spin properly. the children and parents love it.

I personally find the story of the nativity rather difficult to take but thats me and my staff think the same. we are a very multicultural group for the area we live in as we have usually about a dozen children who don't speak english.

Christmas should be fun and I don't think it matters what you do as long as the children have fun doing it.

 

going off to watch Emmerdale now so happy new year to everyone in case I don't get back on

 

Steph

[Guest MaryEMac]

How lovely. Thanks for sharing that Smiley.

 

Mary

[Guest]

Hello Steph

Do I understand it that, you dont at all cover the story of the Nativity at Christmas time?

and if you dont, do you cover over religions/faiths during the year?

And if you do that, why are you not giving the children this religion just because you and your staff dont "beleive it"?

You have to cover all faiths

[JacquieL]

Why do you find the nativity story difficult to take? I find that young children love this simple story and always listen very quietly and with great interest. Something in this story of a new baby born in a stable seems to have a resonance with most people. It is not our place to judge these things for the children, but it is our place to help them experience different aspects of culture and beliefs even at the most simple level. This story has been an important part of our culture for a very long time, absorbing pre-christian culture as well. Even in this multicultural society we should remember our cultural roots, and the enormous impact Xianity has on all aspects of our lives: art, music, architecture, social rules, excuses for wars etc. Whether you and your staff believe or not is neither here nor there, this story is about the the poor, the hungry, the refugee, the hunted, and those who are discriminated against. As role- models for young children it is not for us to pick and choose, or indoctrinate in any way by imposing our own attitudes.

Whether or not you do a Nativity at Xmas for parents and children is also not really a big issue, but denying children their right to learn about why we celebrate Christmas is.

[Marion]

I'm not particularly religious but agree with Jacquie children regardless of background should be aware of why we celebrate Christmas (and other important times)

[hali]

im the same as you Marion and feel our children are loosing too much of our culteral roots and our littlies love our nativities and can understand the basics of them as well as celebrating others!

[Marion]

I have to say that my children asked for the nativity CD so they could sing along all of the final week (10 days after the performances) and used spare costumes in the role play to perform their own mini versions of the story which suggests they had enjoyed doing it.

[SmileyPR]

Mine too ! Year after year they love the topic of The Nativity and I have had different cultural and faith backgrounds. The last day of school we had a Christmas party and the children asked to sing "Happy Birthday" to Jesus !

[HappyMaz]

Xianity

I've never seen it written like this before! Text message language gets religion!

 

Maz