Does The Cgfs/eyfs Mention Structure Or Not?

[Guest]

Hello

 

Just a thought for my latest assignment

 

Does it mention anywhere in either the CGFS or the new EYFS what kind of routine we should be offering children?

Can schools/ FSU get away with being too structured?

If Ofsted come in would they critise a school/ FSu for having a Reception class which is by far too formal.

 

and by formal i mean

 

class based,

attending assemblies,

a lit hour, formal inc differentitiation nased around big book

a numeracy hour, inc mental and oral, intro actviy plenary etc.

break times,

formal snack time with all children sitting,

wthin lessons children sitting at a table for 15 minutes not allowed to move- a carousel type lesson, childrne move to next table after 15 minutes

children raising hand to go to toilet and really only being able to go at certain times of day. ie when it suits teacher.

 

what i am trying to ask is before continuing the learning journey many year 1 teachers had very formal classrooms- and unfortunately some still do.... but could a reception setting get away with being thsi formal. And is there any documents, laws, theories, stone tablets etc which say NO.

 

Really strugglin with this one.

[Marion]

I know reception classes that work this way that have received good and outstanding from OFSTED. It really depends on the inspection team and their understanding of the Foundation Stage.

Edited October 24, 2007 by Marion

[Susan]

I would like to say "no" they couldnt get away with being like that but I think it is more likely to depend up on the individual inspector. Some seem to like more formal setups although I believe it is no longer the expectation that it once was to see those things.

You might find some info on the Ofsted website, there should be some inspection guidelines somewhere!

[mundia]

Sadly, blossom, as Marion said, it depends so much on the OFSTED team you get and what their perspective is. My school was bulldozed for NOT having a formal structure, continuous provision laughed out, reading to children was a 'waste of teaching time' and I wont even repeat what they said about play!

 

Sad but true, sad for the children and devastating for the staff.

[JacquieL]

If there is no consistancy within OFSTED then what a waste of time. It does seem to me that lots of schools are just ignoring the requirements of the Early Years curriculum, and some OFSTED inspectors are as well. So nothing changes and the whole OFSTED thing becomes a farce.

[Rea]

... the whole OFSTED thing becomes a farce.

 

You said it Jacquie

 

The thing with the FS, BTT, and the EYFS is that they are all open to interpretation based on the adults preferences. Adults who dont like mess will limit messy activities to once in a blue moon and 1 child at a time, but a photo in an evidence folder will prove they do it. Same with structure, adults who dont like noise, mess, toys moved around, or toys used for something other than their purpose will limit the talk, music, games, role play. Instead of observing them play they will test them, whats this colour, how many is that, what letter is this. But a photo or a note in the planning will prove they do it freely and independently. Thats how bad settings get away with it, and how good settings will never win.

[Guest Wolfie]

Well said, Rea!

[HappyMaz]

You said it Jacquie

 

The thing with the FS, BTT, and the EYFS is that they are all open to interpretation based on the adults preferences. Adults who dont like mess will limit messy activities to once in a blue moon and 1 child at a time, but a photo in an evidence folder will prove they do it. Same with structure, adults who dont like noise, mess, toys moved around, or toys used for something other than their purpose will limit the talk, music, games, role play. Instead of observing them play they will test them, whats this colour, how many is that, what letter is this. But a photo or a note in the planning will prove they do it freely and independently. Thats how bad settings get away with it, and how good settings will never win.

And of course because schools get notice of an impending Ofsted visit, they are able to put on a good show on inspection day should they get an inspector who values play, child initiated learning and all the core principles of the Foundation Stage.

 

Bitter? Moi?

 

Maz

[Marion]

And of course because schools get notice of an impending Ofsted visit, they are able to put on a good show on inspection day should they get an inspector who values play, child initiated learning and all the core principles of the Foundation Stage.

 

 

Nice idea unfortunately until they give feedback you don't know

I think our head did the right thing. The CALL came late Thursday that they were coming on the Monday and he didn't tell anyone so their weekends wouldn't be spoilt. I remember with the old system (old head) where you got weeks notice spending half the summer holidays in school synchronising files :(

[Lou]

My development officer has told me we will be going back to having some notice. Only because they feel it is a fairer way if everyone is treated the same.

I am going to ask that we don't get any notice given. I can not stand the waiting.

[Guest]

It definately does depend on the team you get - many school inspections are still looking for formal elements.

My school was inspected 4 weeks into the new year (meaning my nursery chidlren had only attended the equivalent of 2 weeks) and I was critisised for not having enough writing/mark-making going on - when they visited my room it was within the first half-hour of the session - a time when I was sharing the children's self-chosen activities and involved in settling them all in. I was challenged as to why I wasn't teaching.

 

Interestingly as we provide school-run wraparound care in our setting as well we also had a child-care inspection several months later (no notice is much better) - if you read the two reports you wouldn't recognise them as the same setting - although this inspection wasn't specifically looking at our educational provision this inspector commented on things like our good provision for early mark-making development.

[catma]

Ofsted will have to inspect against the statutory EYFS expectations, so I would imagine a balance of adult directed/child initiated is what they will be looking for, as well as learning through play as these are non negitiables within EYFS.

 

 

Cx

[Marion]

We had two inspections in just over a year (because of poor KS2 SAT results) and in the first the inspector asked when he could come back to see all the children sitting working.

[HappyMaz]

We had two inspections in just over a year (because of poor KS2 SAT results) and in the first the inspector asked when he could come back to see all the children sitting working.

So I guess what we're really saying here is that even though all children should have very similar foundation stage experiences no matter the type of setting, it really depends on the inspector/inspection team 'buying into' the principles of the foundation stage in order to reach their judgements about the effectiveness of our provision.

 

Is the literacy and numeracy hour compatible with the foundation stage ethos? And what is the definition of children 'working' anyway - surely inspectors are skilled enough to recognise learning wherever and however it takes place? Or am I just hopelessly naive? I hear there are lots of vacancies for practitioners in cloud cuckoo land...

 

Maz

[Susan]

Unfortunately Maz, from Mundia's experience which I know was very recent, you are naive but Im sure you're not alone.

[Marion]

Unfortunately for this inspector his definition of children "working" was every child sitting at a table with paper and pencil.

[Rea]

... surely inspectors are skilled enough to recognise learning wherever and however it takes place? Or am I just hopelessly naive? I hear there are lots of vacancies for practitioners in cloud cuckoo land...

 

Maz

 

Well then you've got the job, just bring your own cuckoo!

I'm sure I've said this before but when my friend went through the interview process for Ofsted they were more concerned about her IT skills than her childcare experience or qualifactions, so I would query the bit about (some of) them being skilled enough to recognise anything other than a keyboard

[Guest]

It is a shame that there appears to be little focus on ECM "Being healthy" in terms of 'mental health' 'well being'. Maybe the government will bring out another 'vote catching' initiative to show that they are doing something about the dire outcome of the recent research which put our children near the bottom, as a nation for having low 'well being, emotional health etc.

 

being in an environment that is so conformist and structured will not enable childrens wellbeing, their self esteem, their motivation to learn etc. and more seriously it will actually turn children off learning.

 

Change will not happen unless there is a political reason for it.

 

Peggy