91 replies to this topic

[Sue J]

I have finally decided to charge top up fees for the funded children at my pre-school starting in January next year. I have been subsidising these children for the extra 5/6 weeks a year we are open and also for the extra 1/2 hour a day.
The pre-school is open for 38/39 weeks of the year - 5 days a week - 9am - 12 noon. There is also a lunch club from 12 noon - 1pm that some children stay for - parents pay extra for this.
I am a bit concerned about writing to parents informing them of the change. Has anyone had experience of this recently?
This topic has probably been discussed before, but I would also like to know if a child only attends 4 mornings a week, would parents expect the other mornings funding be used for the extra 5/6 weeks we are open, in the year?
I am being lazy by not trawling through and looking for all this info, if it has been discussed, perhaps someone could point me in the right direction please.

Sue J

[Linda McDowell]

Here in Stockport if a child does not attend all five sessions we are now being given the extra weeks by the LEA. So in actual fact they are funded probably for the full term, but not if they attend 5 sessions-they still only receive 33 weeks funding. Does that make sense?
I have to say that I don't charge top up fees. We are like you Sue open 3 hours for 39 weeks. But I am seriously considering it for next September. I just feel though that they are not then getting a free place and wonder if it will make more of them choose a local authority nursery. Hard to say but it is a worry, especially with many nurseries having empty places and taking them in earlier.
I still can't find out why the private and voluntary sector only receive 33 weeks funding any way. I have asked the LEA early years team and even asked my MP to find out for me but have never received an answer. Just wondered who to try next? Any ideas?
Linda

[hali]

Hi

we started this term to charge a top up fee, we warned parents a term beforhand at our open evening and then sent out letters to them, explaining either we did this or close!!!!! for the extra weeks.


We charged all parents the same top up as we decided

1. its was far too complicated to work out every individual child/sessions
2. eventually they would be doing the 5 sessions not 3/4

Out of 57 parents being charged only 3 commented/complained about the (my child only does 3 sessions why do i have to pay the same as others) and when we explained the above they accepted it and we have had no problems. :D

[Sue J]

Yes Linda I understand what you were saying about spreading the funding.

Like yourself I wondered whether the parents would choose to go to the local authority nursery just round the corner or to other nurseries or pre-schools that do not charge top up fees. I'm going to check with pre-schools near me first to see what they have done. I will also phone the LEA and ask them the same questions you asked your LEA and see where I get with that.

It isn't a decision I have taken lightly but I think the time has come as I can't afford to subsidise the places. The other choice, of course, would be to only operate 33 weeks a year and for 2 1/2 hours a day!! But again the parents would go to other pre-schools that open longer.
I am in a bit of a dilemma really.

Sue J

[Inge]

We started charging top up fees from Sept.

we too sent a letter a term before we started explaining that we could not afford to give care with no payment . we also said no payment no sessions, and term will end earlier for those who do not pay. If fewer children stay we are still gaining more income than giving free care to all children as in past.

So far everyone had paid willingly, (the thought of longer holidays at Christmas and summer does help!) We have charged for the sessions individually, and sorted out a weekly payment scheme so no one has to pay a large bill all at once. Took a bit of time but now it is set up it is easy to do. If they add sessions during the year the payment increases accordingly.

no parent have moved their child to nursery as the cost of top up there is more than we charge, so they end up paying more anyway. we have in fact gained several children this term from other pre-schools who decided not open the extra weeks, parents are willing to pay for the additional care rather than have longer holidays.

our LEA will not allow us to claim for sessions not attending to ofset cost for those who are having less than 5 per week. They are looking into doing this in the future.

We also have a problem with parents wanting to have more sessions mid term and as funding is only claimed at the beginning of the term we are unable to take them even if we wanted to as we are not allowed to charge for these sessions unless they already claim 5 free ones, and we cannot afford to take the children without payment. we have done so in exceptional circumstances but try to avoid it if we can.

As to them not getting a free place, they do but only for 33 weeks per year, this will be the same in nursery or pre-school, and nursery charges more for top up.

inge

[Linda McDowell]

Inge
I think we have our wires crossed here. I am talking about school nurseries as opposed to private day nurseries. At school, LEA, nurseries, they get the full year of 39 weeks funding. These are the ones I am concerned that they will take up a free place at if we start to charge for the extra weeks. We have a few children who stay with us until starting school. If we introduce top up fees then we may lose them to LEA nurseries.
Linda

[Rea]

We've had this dillema and have decided to NOT plan fror the 6 weeks that we are open but dont recieve funding for. Two weeks at the start of the new Sept term, so we can spend time talking to new parents and settle children, two weeks before christmas so we can concentrate on all the creative without having to be tied to a theme, and the last two weeks of the summer term because thats when we have parties, school visits, and graduation. This is the first year we've tried it but not planning for the first two weeks of term was really helpful to staff who could spend time getting to know the children without having to think what they should be doing from a plan. To bring in a bit of extra cash we charge £1 per half term towards the cost of snacks. :D

[bubblejack]

Over the past year I have gradually reduced the weeks to 33. My Early years have supported this and given me evidence to show parents that this is legal. When an important course takes place I close and all staff attend. It also creates days for the premises and equipment to be cleaned thoroughly rather than making do with a quick wipe each day. It gives us time to have staff meetings in an unhurried way rather than at the end of a session when we may not be at our best. I point all these facts out to parents when they register their child so they are clear if my provision suits them.
It also suits me and my family to have our holidays out of the school holiday weeks when it is quieter and cheaper!!
I opened a holiday club in my last provision during the summer and Easter holidays for which parents were more than happy to pay for. I was able to get lottery funding for this which enabled me to pay for refurbishment of the garden and purchase lots of new equipment. I am definately considering doing this again in my new premises.

[Peggy]

Thats a good idea Rea, all my staff found it difficult to get back into the obs, record keeping, planning cycle at the beginning of this term, especially as I had to reduce hours due to school intake.

Sue, I have put an extensive post on this subject which was started by steve, don't know where you would find it though

Briefly- I had a major problem when I started my business 3 yrs ago because other local groups were subsiding extra weeks. I subsidised the .5 hr but not the extra weeks

I researched the internet for legislation on the NEG, eventually I contacted a person called Paul Stubbs from DFES ( He wrote the regulations and guidlines) He made it very clear to me that the NEG MUST ONLY BE USED FOR THE TIME IT IS ALLOCATED FOR 5 X 2.5 HRS FOR 33 WEEKS. IN fact he said it is ILLEGAL to use it for outside these time ie: care and not education, because it is an EDUCATION GRANT.

My fees are lower than the NEG sessional rate, this has been challenged by one parent, but he was ok when I explained that the difference could not be used for "care" times and that I have to justify in my accounts how it is used toward the cost of planning meetings for the Foundation Stage, educational resources and staff training etc.

However, I have discovered that different LEA's interpretation across the country varies.

This term I had to charge for the .5 hrs as well as additional "care" weeks, due to minimum wage increase, 10% rent increase etc.

I make it clear that parents can choose to send their child for 2.5 hrs and not for the full 3 hr session but no-one has taken up this option, they can also choose to send their child for 11 weeks only. ( only two parents have chosen this)

I have devised an excell invoice which easily calculates the variety of charges and will try to attach it. ( I'll post this reply 1st in case I lose it)

Peggy

[Peggy]

Here goes I shall try to attach example invoices.

When you open the excell documents you may be prompted - choose enable macros
Then a run time error may show - choose "end"

[Peggy]

yipee :D

my 1st attachment here another example

one is for funded child one is for non funded child

Hope it all makes sense.

Peggy

[Peggy]

Excell asks for a few prompts. I am virus free.

Please let me know if you are able to access the attachments - thanks.

Peggy

[Sue R]

Well done, Peggy, my boss would be proud!! :)
Clear, concise and saves those sweaty, heart pounding moments when the Committee left you the bad payer to tackle on your own!! See! I remember Pre-school Playgroup days !!

Sue :D

[hali]

Local Leas have different views on helping out.........ours dont!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Sue J]

Thanks Peggy
I have copied both invoices and will look at them properly tomorrow as it is late now. They look good to me!

Sue J :)