How Much Admin Work?

[Guest]

Hello

 

Can you let mw know how many hours they employ an admin officer for?

 

We are a sessional pre-school in a community hall running 5 sessions a week and we are commitee run. The committee employ an admin officer for 10 hours a week and she is responsible for budgets, money, collecting fees, funding,wages, waiting lists and various odd bits.

 

I've just had a lousy weekend as she has suddenly announced saturday night by e-mail that she wants more hours every week to complete her tasks, even though she's does the budget and knows its tight.

 

I am very aware it is a really busy time of year funding, wages and end year of tax all have to be done - but it normally calms down by next week.

 

Do your admin's work in the setting with you - part of the problem is I really have doubts about how much work she actually does as she always works from home. I've asked her to keep a record of her hours and now she thinks I'm spying on her where as I see it as trying to line manage.

 

I really want to sit down with her go through her job description, hours and training needs.

 

But any ideas on the training I can offer as all her amendments to wages have been wrong and the budget well - don't even go there. I know I am so upset as I am now having to check all her figures before any one else sees them - the staff will be furious if they are paid wrong all the time.

 

I need to speak to the chair person tomorrow but their answer is always what do you want to do? and to make it worse enjoy a good night out with the admin officer as she is such fun and don't want to upset her!!!!

 

Any advice would be great - I don't need to speak to her until wednesday - she can't come in tomorrow as her painter is coming to see her..

 

Thanks - I just need some advice

[Sue R]

Hmm, well, as a DN, our Admin is F/T! However, as ex pre-school, I am aware of your problem.

 

Could you perhaps discuss a couple of extra hours at busy times, like now? Don't know if that's much help...

 

Sue

[Guest]

Hi, We are a sessional pre-school committee run like you. We operate 9 sessions a week. I do the waiting list and the timesheets, i fill them in and calulate them she then does the wages. we employ an administrator to do the funding, budgets, invoices, wages, P60's etc etc. She is employed for 10 hours a week.Hope this helps

[hali]

tell her shes lucky we are a sessional preschool and we dont employ anyone myself, and treasurer do everything

[Guest]

Hello

 

I was going to suggest as it is manic at the moment - if we really are unable to afford any extra overtime. that perhaps over the next couple of weeks she has a bit of time off, once the end of year return is done.

 

I agree we are lucky, as supervisor I do lots of the her work anyway - with sessions, waiting lists and having to redo the budget as it can be ficitional.

[HappyMaz]

Hello

 

I was going to suggest as it is manic at the moment - if we really are unable to afford any extra overtime. that perhaps over the next couple of weeks she has a bit of time off, once the end of year return is done.

 

I agree we are lucky, as supervisor I do lots of the her work anyway - with sessions, waiting lists and having to redo the budget as it can be ficitional.

Sounds like a good compromise, given the situation you find yourself in. However, I would also add a word of caution here. It sounds as if you have other doubts about her ability to do her job - you mention having to check her figures, etc - and also the amount of time she actually spends doing the various tasks she is expected to do.

 

Does she have the necessary technical expertise to do her job? If not, does your local Early Years support team offer business admin training so that she can acquire the skills/qualifications she needs? When was her last appraisal and what strategies to develop her skills and practice were identified?

 

It is always difficult to quantify what home workers actually do (I used to be one of those, so I know how easy it is to get sidetracked by another request which might take you away from what you're supposed to be doing). It does sound as if she's feeling a little bit under the microscope, however it is perfectly valid for her employers to ask questions about how a home-based employee spends their time. After all, if she were to become sick suddenly, how would you organise cover without knowing exactly what her job entails and how long she spends on each task?

 

From an outsider's point of view, it also sounds as if the lines between your professional and personal relationship have become blurred slightly - you mention not wanting to upset her because you enjoy a good time with her socially. This can make the whole situation much more difficult to handle (again, I know this from personal experience!) so you will need to be careful how you attempt to resolve your current predicament.

 

The last thing you need is for her to feel 'picked on' and for you to feel you're being 'blackmailed' due to the time constraints of having to get the year end tasks completed on time.

 

I hope I haven't added to your stress - and none of this is a criticism, believe me. I just know how difficult these situations can be - especially in pre-school when difficulties of this type can feel like falling out with family members!

 

I hope your Chair will provide some support - and that perhaps with time to reflect for a day or so you might feel in less of a panic!

 

Good luck

Maz

 

Oh, and I'm not in a committee-run group, but I don't have an admin at all. Maybe one day...

[Inge]

lucky her I get 6 hours a week for this, and it is adequate for the jobs mentioned, only need extra time twice a year when I gat an addtional 6 hours each time for end of financial year and end of accounting year

 

Actually these days with PAYE calculations and recording done by a CD provided by IRS it is a lot faster than when we had paper tables to use...always got muddles with those!!

 

Perhaps a compromise with an extra payment for one off duties ,

 

Husband works from home and he has to fill in a sheet every day detailing how he used his time so it is quite a normal exercise to fill in a timesheet for home workers and should be done to account for her wages, I have to do it for my home time too.

 

Inge

[Rea]

Arent these jobs the remit of the committee?

 

I know it's a lot of work, but surely you should have a secretary, treasurer, chair at the least, plus other members.

If your chair is asking what you want to do, is she being considerate of your friendship or merely passing the buck on a decision she doesnt want to make?

 

Sorry to sound so dismal but I really wonder what your committee do.

 

I'm not at all up to date with constitutions but if you're part of the PLA and have adopted their constitution you might need to check that your committee are doing what they are supposed to be. The committee are the registered providers in my experience and they are therefore responsible for the group and that includes finances. I'm not saying they cant get help with wages and end of yr stuff, but I think they might have to have a tighter rein on what happens than they appear to at present. Afterall if the group folded they would be responsible for any debts.

 

Hope I have muddied any waters but I'm not familiar with a set up where a committee doesnt do the committee jobs and thought I should at least voice my initial concerns.

[Beau]

We don't have an admin either. The workload is shared out between me, Chair, secretary and treasurer and none of us get paid for doing any of it.

[Guest]

Ours does 12 hours min a week, and extra hours as necessary, depending on work load, but then her job description is an awful lot longer. We used to pay our admin to just do the set number of hours, but as yours she found that this didn't really fit in with the job as some times it is far busier than others, and things do crop up that need immediate attention, so we negotiated this more flexiable contract. If she finds she has too much on her plate, we either take some off her, and give to the committee, or otherise her to work more hours. Perhaps you could do similar, getting her to justify work over her core 10 hours, and approving it or otherwise.

You could also say that you are updating everyones job descriptions, and ask her to do a detailed one for herself. Hopefully you will then see what she thinks she is doing, and see if any of this can be taken on by someone else.

[Guest]

Reah, Believe me our committee does do things, but we still need an administrator. For one thing the continuity from year to year in vital. Our admin does do many jobs that used to be committee roles, but getting a committee is hard enough, without vital roles like admissions secretary and fees treasurer to fill, that said our treasurer does to the book keeping, and the budget setting. Also constitutionally it is fine to have an administrator.

[HappyMaz]

Also constitutionally it is fine to have an administrator.

Just so long as she doesn't try to have her say at committee meetings: a problem I always used to have as the paid admin for a PLA committee. I never could resist the urge to put my point of view!!

 

Maz

 

(my motto always has "never use ten words when a hundred would easily do"). In fact I think I'll have that as my signature...

[Guest]

We are a committee run pre-school with 5 sessions per week registered for 20 children. I do most admin except accounts and wages. I add the hours worked to my timesheet - sometimes there are lots sometimes not many at all! I have a job description somewhere for an admin assistant if that would help and would gladly share our timesheet if you wish.

[Guest]

Hi

 

I do all of the admin for pre-school and I really don't spent that much time per week doing it. We have 50 children on the role and I do the registers every week and sort out the planning then i do the wages which are really easy nowadays as they are all on the CD sent out from the inland Rev. I reckon I spend about 4 hours a week doing actual admin that no body else helps me with - saying that Accounts are looking terrible at the moment - me and my mum did them all at christmas and then lost the lot!!! we have to start all over again I think that we be a couple of days between us. I hope there is a couple of days of rain in the half term so I can do it then i don't fancy sitting indoors if it is sunny!

 

10 hours a week is a lot. you need to give her an appraisal (the is more admin that i do) this should be done at least once a year with reviews every term. My team that work for me are all very close but we do have appraisals and they understand that this is part and parcel of them doing the job - OFSTED expect to see appraisals anyway. If you are unsure of what to do, we got a our PSLA representative in to sit with me on my first ones.

 

Deb

[Guest]

Not much more to add except as the owner ( 10 sessions a week) I do everything, admin, as well as manage the preschool on a day to day basis.

 

End of year returns take me one hour on the internet, PAYE records are kept up to date throughout the year, it is just a matter of transferring the info to the Inland revenue website. The P46's are produced online ready to print off. Also why should this incurr more hours?, the deadline is in June, 2 months after the end of the tax year

 

similarly with end year accounts if they are kept up to date there shouldn't be a problem and these aren't required until 30th January after the April tax year end date. If I'm honest though I don't do these until the last minute, it takes me 3 days ( 16 hrs) to do a whole years accounts. That's sorting through the large box of receipts, invoices, expenditure, milk claims, wages etc.

 

Good suggestion to contact your early years department who should have a business advisor.

 

Does your administrator use the CD's sent out by Inland Revenue? They do all the calculations for weekly / monthly salaries.

 

Peggy

[Guest]

Thanks for all your thoughts - they have helped.

 

I had a chat with my chairperson today and as I suspected she backs me completely. But dosen't want to get involved because she likes the admin officer!

 

Our committee sometime ago decided to employ an admin officer to complete the accounts etc on their behalf. The committee has actual responsibility and make all the decisions, but the paper work is completed by a paid employee - we have actually found this works well in the past, helps us gain a committee as they won't be overloaded with paperwork and we have reliability and continuity.

 

As her line manager I just want to ensure the job is being completed, but ensuring at the same time we are being fair and the work load is adequate.

 

I will sit and go through her job desription etc

 

Thank again

[Deb]

I am a deputy supervisor as well as administrator for the group. We had to employ someone as things weren't getting done for example the accounts were a year out of date. I have actually saved the group money by highlighting the bank charges (we actually received over £800 pounds back) I have reactivated dormant building society accounts (could prove worthwhile), obtained funding, switched to computerised accounts, carried out marketing, the list goes on.

 

I get paid for 8 hours a week, term time only. For the first year or so I kept records of what I did and hours spent. It worked out that I averaged 12 hours a week as I often worked over half term. But nobody was interested so I stopped recording my hours. I would have no qualms about recording my hours though, it is not unreasonable. I also work from home, I couldn't possibly concentrate at the setting as we do not have a separate office.

 

As for mistakes, we all make them as we are only human but not on a regular basis I hope!! Hope this helps.

[nicki-k]

We are a committee run group but as supervisor I deal with the fees, funding, waiting lists etc etc. I also complete the PAYE which is a doddle - 45mins every four weeks for wages for six members of staff plus an extra hour once a year to complete end of year returns. Our treasurer looks after the accounts and logs all of her hours. She has just submitted her hours for feb, march & april and this totals 10 hours. The accounts are all up to date and accurate.

 

We are a sessional pre-school (9 sessions per week with 50 children) and I have been involved with all areas of admin. I could comfortably complete all admin in 10 hours per week.

 

As for your chairperson not wanting to get involved I can understand her concerns but as a committee run pre-school she is your employer and it is the committees responsibility to make this decision and put the interests of the pre-school first.

 

I hope you can come to a mutual agreement over this.