holt2007 Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 So chair person of committee has been told by Ofsted that we DONT HAVE TO update old crbs or the new DBS checks. That sounds wrong to me as been talking to an improvement advisor and she said of course they need updating every 3 yrs... Is that just what is considered good practise or a definite NEED? I can't seem to find any clarification on the matter! Also chair was told that my DBS from another setting is ok to use even though I didn't sign up for the update service so I now don't have a valid one for new setting as I thought had been done - totally confused with all the differing advice as online guidance differs from what's said from telephone conversations !! What do others do or understand to be correct ? G & T to anyone who can help !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SueJ Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 If you check out the statutory framework - this link is to the new one coming in in September 2014 - page 17 onwards provides all the information about suitable people http://www.foundationyears.org.uk/eyfs-2014/ The onus is on providers to ensure staff suitability and their systems MUST be robust and ensure accountability. There is no legal requirement for people to have a CRB/DBS check every three years - Rea has posted on here about her battles with her LA regarding this in the past - it is a bit of a LA hang up in some areas and a prime example of why the government wanted to change things so that LAs were not imposing "unnecessary burdens" on providers. No matter how recent a CRB/DBS check is reliant on the check undertaken that day. For new employees, if the provider is willing to accept a previous employers CRB/DBS check and not check it through the update service then I wouldn't want to be in their shoes when they are trying to tell an inspector that their checks are robust as they are relying on second hand evidence and documentation checking. I suspect that their recruiting practices would lead to a judgement of inadequate on the basis that this constituted a breach of the statutory requirements that in the inspectors opinion could have a significant impact on the safety and well being of children. If you haven't already done so have a good look at the Ofsted evaluation schedule grade descriptors, particularly leadership and management - you can download the schedule via this link http://www.ofsted.gov.uk/resources/evaluation-schedule-for-inspections-of-registered-early-years-provision As an employer I insist that all new staff have a DBS check and register with the update service or if they are registered with the update service check out their suitability through this. I also ask my staff to complete a declaration during termly supervisions and annual appraisals as to whether they have had any police cautions or criminal convictions or have any pending since their last CRB/DBS check. Much as I would love the G&T - as it's early I'll settle for a cuppa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mouseketeer Posted April 26, 2014 Share Posted April 26, 2014 (edited) I have a new member of staff starting who has a DBS from end of last year for previous setting, can you tell me should I ... A - ask her to register it so it is transferable B - start again with ? (TMG) C- register it myself with capita or TMG D- none of the above Tried finding information that makes sense but can't, what have other managers done ? Thanks Edited April 26, 2014 by mouse63 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodlands1997 Posted April 26, 2014 Share Posted April 26, 2014 You have to subscribe to the update system within a certain time ( I think three months) so she won't be able to do this now. I would do a new one through whoever you normally do them with eg tmg!x 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mouseketeer Posted April 26, 2014 Share Posted April 26, 2014 Thanks woodlands, guessing that's something else I'll have to pay for personally and wait to be reimbursed for as we don't have a debit card Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holt2007 Posted April 27, 2014 Author Share Posted April 27, 2014 Thanks for that SueJ..... Just as I thought really but so hard when you are reliant on others to do things properly - and they don't ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SueJ Posted April 27, 2014 Share Posted April 27, 2014 I have a new member of staff starting who has a DBS from end of last year for previous setting, can you tell me should I ... A - ask her to register it so it is transferable B - start again with ? (TMG) C- register it myself with capita or TMG D- none of the above Tried finding information that makes sense but can't, what have other managers done ? Thanks You need to register with the update service either at the time of application or within 14 days of receiving new DBS so it is too late for your member of staff mouse. The only way to get registered now is to apply for a completely new DBS (at a cost of about £58) and register with the update service (approx £14 per annum). I have uploaded the DBS Update Service Employer guide for info DBS Update Service Employer_guide_v3.7_04.10.13.pdf 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodlands1997 Posted April 27, 2014 Share Posted April 27, 2014 We used to pay but lately have had a few staff come and leave after around 3 months annoyingly. So now we say they are responsible for paying for their DBS and if they are still here a year on will get it reimbursed! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mouseketeer Posted April 27, 2014 Share Posted April 27, 2014 Thanks SueJ, very helpful.....it annoys me that they've given no thought to how committee groups without debit cards (or maybe we're the only ones now ) are supposed to pay. Woodlands - good point, think I'll include something in my induction paperwork, because what happens if they don't make the grade after trial period, and you have to start again, and will include update to contracts that if they leave within 12 months the cost will be deducted from any monies/holiday pay due. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flowlow Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 ok so I am thinking we need to get staff on DBS update service. I was told we get told automatically if anything changes to a persons suitability, but having looked at info I think I would still need to check up every so often or does this happen when they renew each year? is this what everybody else's understanding is? Also how do I get on the service? I was checked ages ago by Ofsted and was told I am on their list and the setting would be informed immediately if anything changed to my suitability. As this was the case I was not rechecked by Ofsted. Now I know they no longer check DBS stuff but again I was told they would maintain checks on people like me. I did try to get another DBS check so I could also be checked every three year but no one want to touch me because of the Ofsted check. So now I don't know how to get on yearly update service if they wont check me. Does anyone else have this problem??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodlands1997 Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 No you don't need to get them on update and there is no legal requirement to check every 3 years. The update service just means that the DBS is transferable between settings. You can do a DBS yourself even if you've had an ofsted one, you can have lots! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flowlow Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 no one will do my DBS woodlands as Ofsted did it initially the wont re-do or allow me to have another one for the setting. I have had another one for volunteer work else where but not for the setting!!! it is a bit odd really Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lynned55 Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 Why would you want another one for your setting though? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SazzJ Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 I had an ofsted one around 3 months before I started my new job as a preschool leader as the previous job was only temp. Ofsted would not renew my CRB (back in 2009) even though it was different authorities. However when we registered setting end of 2013 I was requested to complete a DBS check Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 I've just had to update and do a new DBS because I have gone from being the EYP to setting co-leader. The change of job role to a management role means I had to have another check done. Mind you the letter sent by Ofsted confirming this contained none of the enclosures it said were in the envelope and was an old-style letter which was generated through filling in the the EY2 which now has to be done online. I had to phone Ofsted to clarify whether I had to have a new check. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyfs1966 Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 I've just had to update and do a new DBS because I have gone from being the EYP to setting co-leader. The change of job role to a management role means I had to have another check done. Mind you the letter sent by Ofsted confirming this contained none of the enclosures it said were in the envelope and was an old-style letter which was generated through filling in the the EY2 which now has to be done online. I had to phone Ofsted to clarify whether I had to have a new check. What is their problem? I'm in a similar position as you and was told that the new manager position was no longer of any interest to them!! I was so confused by the advice I was given that I have written them a letter explaining my understanding of the conversation, just to cover my back should the inspector turn up and say I have not done something that I should have. The whole situ with DBS's is a mess. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flowlow Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 Why would you want another one for your setting though? well we check staff every three years always have and because of cost I thought we should look into update service as this means we could check as often as we like but would save money. I don't get checked every three years as Ofsted did my original on e 2008 and a suitable person interview etc... but I thought it seems odd that staff are checked every three years but as manager I am not!!! well then I found out no one re-checks as Ofsted say they are still monitoring people like me who are on their old system, until I leave for alternative setting. However if I wanted to join up date service I would need a check and can't get one. Think that makes sense lol been long day so far Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodlands1997 Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 We don't check everyone every three years just once unless there's a break in employment then we recheck? I still don't understand what you mean about no one checking you as you could just apply for a check the same way you check your staff? I have been checked by ofsted as the registered person/ manager but did one through tmg crb too like I do for staff just so they are all in our online system together! You can have as many checks as you want!?x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flowlow Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 when I went to uni I was asked to provide a copy of my CRB form, well originally they sent my CRB to work and I didn't get a copy, I meant to chase but forgot, work had shredded it as you are only allowed to keep for a short time so I couldn't produce it. I asked the CRB people at that time for a copy they said they couldn't send. So I said no problem I will pay to have another check done, they refused to do another check saying that as Ofsted had done it I couldn't be checked or re-checked by them. Well I got around the issue for uni and thought no more but when I submitted my information for a check again recently I was phoned and told they wouldn't check me as it was under the banner or Ofsted. All very odd! I can be checked for another organisation but not for the setting I am currently in Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodlands1997 Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 Well that is odd as ofsted did mine, same setting same address etc and I did one too! No one questioned!x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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