New Crb Checks

[Lucy P]

I sent off my first batch of crb applications yesterday and received a call from TMG today after they got them, as i had forgotton to enter the issue date on one of the id checks Anyway, i informed them of the date and they said they would be immediatley processed and i should hear back within 7 - 14 days of clearance.

I just can't believe how speedy the system has become now Ofsted are not involved!!

[Guest]

I have a couple of questions.

 

As I understand it, under the old system when a member of staff filled in a DC2 form and we sent it off to Ofsted, they were giving consent that Ofsted could contact not only the CRB but GPs, Social services departments, the MOD etc. (Whether Ofsted did so I don't know)

 

Will these three organisations just do CRB checks or will they be doing the extra checks that the DC2 gave permission for? If they are just doing CRBs (and I think from their websites they are) then do we as employers need to be doing the extra checks?

 

Another thing - in my experience our Ofsted office regarded enhanced disclosures as transferable. When we took on new staff or volunteeers (under the old system) who already had an enhanced disclosure, Ofsted accepted their existing disclosure did not insist on getting another CRB done. Can we therefore do the same?

 

Carolyn

[Lucy P]

I used to be under the impression that they were portable, but have since found they are not. This is the reason i now have to get 11 of my staff checked... its a pain but definatly for the best

[Guest]

Ive got lost in this. We have just got a new committee, a chairperson, treasurer, secartary, and 4 committee members do we as a playschool have to pay to have these people cheeked.

 

[Deb]

I've been following this topic and wondering the same question as we have new committee members who will need a crb check. Will try to find out and report back.

Debbie

[Guest]

Hi Rosemarie and Deb

From the conversation I had last week new CRB checks are still free. If and when they say we have to have rechecks then we will probably have to pay for them.

If it is committee members then you still need to go through Ofsted. It is only new staff that are being dealt with by the three companies named in the letter.

Linda

[Guest]

Hi Rosemarie and Deb

From the conversation I had last week new CRB checks are still free. If and when they say we have to have rechecks then we will probably have to pay for them.

If it is committee members then you still need to go through Ofsted. It is only new staff that are being dealt with by the three companies named in the letter.

Linda

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[Guest]

Hi Rosemarie and Deb

From the conversation I had last week new CRB checks are still free. If and when they say we have to have rechecks then we will probably have to pay for them.

If it is committee members then you still need to go through Ofsted. It is only new staff that are being dealt with by the three companies named in the letter.

Linda

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Thanks Linda

I will pass this onto the morning supervisor who deals with it.

[Guest]

Just to clarify Linda's message about new staff.

 

CRB checks which go through Ofsted are:

a) Committee Members ( ie: management-registered person/s)

Owner of a private business ( ie: Registered person)

c) Manager within a private business who has daily responsibility but is not the registered person.

 

All other staff, it is now the responsibility of a,b,c above to ensure checks are done for new staff that are not a,b, or c, through one of the 3 new companies.

 

Ofsted will inform a,b or c if they need to have a recheck.

 

a,b, or c, have to decide when they will recheck "other" staff to ensure the safety of all children they are responsible for.....there is no stipulated time scale at present when any new checks should be carried out but no doubt Ofsted will ask a,b or c, to justify their decisions on how often they have decided to do rechecks. The "norm" was 3 years although this is not mandatory.

 

 

Peggy

Please anyone correct me if I have this wrong

[Guest]

ooops I seem to have a instead of a b )

 

 

peggy

[Inge]

Ok, just had meeting about above.

 

peggy and linda have both given correct advice, commitees, owners etc(registered person) fill in DC2 as before (but there is a new form for this it has changed) and have to have CRB Checks via Ofsted.

 

All other staff it is the reponsibility of the registered person to ensure the

CRB checks are done, references taken up etc.

Ofsted do not need to be informed about these changes in staff. registered person now has reponsibility to keep acurate records for them to see at an inspection. This also includes employment issues such as regular appraisals of staff and staff development.

 

recommendation was that all who work with or have contact with the children for more than 13 consecutive weeks has a CRB check...this includes students on long term placement.

 

The CRB checks are free at the moment if you use one of the 3 recommended companies ... there are several other companies which will do checks but you would have to pay for them as they do not have the agreement with ofsted.

 

Inge

[Guest]

Spoke to a lovely lady at Ofsted on Friday and asked her to clarify re checks and are crbs transferable.

She said :-

There is no need to re check staff unless you have concerns.

Your enhanced disclosure is transferable.

Eg - I am also a fixtures secretary for my son (7yrs) footy team and asked if I needed to have another crb done. She said no.

I then asked about new staff. Do I need to do re checks if they have an enhanced disclosure- again she said no, crbs are for life and as long as you do thourough reference checks no need to do re check.

 

I personally think you should always do re checks on staff.

[Guest]

But if it's gojng to cost quite a bit, especially if they all come around at the same time, the temptation will be not to do so unless there are real causes for concern. From another angle, you might actually be wasting valuable resource money.

[Guest]

Net, First time I've heard that Crb checks are for life, although in one respect I agree they should be long term if they belong to a current member of staff who you would know if they had any convictions made against them after their Crb check. I would also agree for new members of staff if there are not any employment gaps since their Crb was done.

 

Peggy

[Guest]

A local Nursery in our area are doing all the checks now at £35.00 (or 37.00) per member of staff. All staff have current crb's the oldest being 4 years old.

I'm a bit confused now! My new supervisor phoned ofsted yesterday and they told her that she is the only one who applies through ofsted and the others through the Nursery (agent, I suppose). They told me that all staff should be re-checked, but being cynical, is it a case of them making money out of us.

[aliamch]

I was told the CRB check I had done via my childrens school was ok for the setting I'm working in, and that was free, but I do go in and help in the school on a regular basis.

Karrie

[Inge]

Dont understand...why do you have to go through the nursery charging when you can register with a company yourselves and ofsted will pay for the checks providing you use one of the 3 recommended companies, well they do at the momment, even though you have initiated them from the setting. Only person in charge of day to day care and any management be it committee or business have to go through Ofsted.

 

At recent Ofsted asked about re - checks etc and checks for those of us who were registered under old system so not made and answer was no need to recheck, but would recommend any new employees were checked and Ofsted had no plans at present to ask for all registered under social services to be checked as it would take so long and cost a fortune as there are so many of them!!

 

Had same reply when I questioned about me needing a suitable persons interview now when i have had about 5 Ofsted inspections and not been picked up at any of them!! They said it was an error and I would not need one!! seems on their restructuring paperwork got delayed and lost!! That black hole again!

 

Inge

[Guest]

I don't understand why the nursery is charging, I did one for a member of my staff in May at no cost to me. unless of course they are charging for their admin costs, they do take a while to check and ensure all is correct ( nearly as bad as filling out a passport form) but I think £35 time costs is a bit steep.

 

Re-checks, I believe should be done as and when the 'registered' person can no longer say he/she is 100% certain that the person is safe to be with the children. under the standards this is the responsibility of the registered person. take two of my staff. Staff No 1- I don't know much about her life outside of preschool then after 3 yrs I would have a re-check done. Staff 2 - is a close family friend who I often see on a social basis, then as the registered person I could catagorically say that she had had no incidences in her life since her last check, so I would not do another one unless circumstances changed.

Staff no 3 - well she's different altogether, she's my daughter - ( not sure I would have passed her 1st CRB check- no only joking).

 

There is no legal obligation that I am aware of that checks have to be done every 3 yrs, there is a legal obligation to ensure that all children are safe from harm/risk, from all staff.

 

Peggy

 

p.s. Ofsted have even said that they will not be doing registered person checks every 3 years, I know they did, I read it somewhere.

[Guest]

When I announced I was leaving my pdw came in and asked about crb checks for new supervisor and staff. I told her that I was going to contact ofsted but she said that this particular nursery could organise it for me. I presume they are registered to do so. I contacted them and they said they would send an agreement for us to sign to give consent for them to carry out the checks. In the light of what everyone is saying, I really don't think it necessary to renew 4 members of staff as they have been with me for years and theirs run out this year, two others were transferred from our feeder schools, which count for something.

I feel very disgruntled to think we will pay over £200.00 (35.00 for each of them) if it isn't necessary, which I honestly can say it isn't!! I would much rather the money spent on resources!!!

Please could someone clarify it for me!!!!

[Guest]

I am not aware that any Nursery's are 'agents'. There are only three recommended by Ofsted as previously stated.

I would suggest that you either ask the nursery what the charge is actually for and what agent they use to administer the CRB checks, then contact the agency to ask if there is a charge for nursery's. ( There may be a charge for re-checks - people who have already had a check done before).....or contact Ofsted, explain the situation and ask if they would require re-checks done.

I do not take 'previous' checks as 'safe' for new staff, especially if there has been a gap in employment.

Good Luck. It does seem bizarre, especially as checks are only valid for the day they are done. With the recent report from Ofsted called 'safe and sound' they are clamping down on all the standards, including Suitable person checks.

 

Peggy

[Guest]

Thanks Peggy, will check with them. I just don't feel I can justify them spending so much money - even though I have left!

[Guest]

I feel a bit embarrassed to raise this old chestnut again! I did understand at the time but we have not had to do any crbs for a year or so (apart from my new committee via Ofsted).

 

One of my mums who is a registered childminder and holds a current crb (obviously!) has agreed to go on my supply register.......... I asked her as she is a fabulous practitioner.

 

Do I have to have her checked by TMG (my preferred company from the earlier discussion, with whom I registered at the time)?

 

A couple of the posts above said the crb was transferrable....... is this correct?

 

If she goes on my supply list, in all likelihood I won't use her as I have some committee members who are crb'd through us. (I wanted to look organised for Ofsted). So, if by some chance I do use this mum it will probably for one odd session when we could easily organise that she has no unsupervised access to the children - so is it necessary to CRB at all????????

 

This is the part of the job I HATE!

[Guest]

Thought you might be interested in my PDW's reply to same question:

 

Its fine to put this childminder on my supply list especially if her crb check is fairly recent (ie less than 3 years) - Ofsted must have declared her fit to work with children. As crb checks are not completely reliable it is good practice to have reference letters to support her suitability.'

 

So there it is - I'll get 2 references and add her to my supply list!

[Rea]

I know this has been asked before but the dates have all changed so I wondered if anythin gnew in the last year or so has led anyone to have a diffinitive answer regarding volunteers? Does a volunteer who is not having unsupervised access to children and who is only going to be there once per half term or even less have to have a CRB? The proceedures for volunteers are in place i.e. not taking children to toilet, even own in case others follow, not opening doors, not allowing children to leave with an adult even if they know them, confidentiality...

 

 

And while we're on about it, Ofsted have no record of me on the playgroup committee. I was staff for 7 years and have been on the committee for 2, but they havent got my CRB, even though I know they had a copy and said it was fine!!

But whats new there then?

[Guest]

I have just started my degree and was told yesterday that the enhanced disclosure only lasts for 3 years. Is this correct if so i will need to get quite a few of my staff done again!!!!!!!I have never heard of this before!!!!!

[Rea]

Thats another part of the debate simcity. Where is it written that we should be rechecked after 3years?

I'm about to email the Dfes, Ofsted and CRB again with that and many more questions.

[Rea]

I've emailed Ofsted, CRB, Dfes, Capita, Nestor and TMG with the following...

 

I have two questions regarding CRB checks and playgroups

1. Do the checks have to be carried out every 3 years if the staff/volunteers have been regular attendents at the setting?

2. Does a volunteer who only helps once every 6 weeks have to be checked? The person has no unsupervised access to children.

Thank you

 

 

I know there are other questions but I thought keeping it simple might be easier for them

[Beau]

We have been told that although it isn't statutory to recheck, we should draw up our own procedure for how often this take place to show good practice. Their recommendation was once every 3 years but it was up to us to decide what was appropriate.

[Inge]

Along these lines...hey I am unsuitable AGAIN!

 

Had the letter saying i had not co operated with Ofsted so they could not do checks and I was not to work as supervisory in any form!!

 

Having not been contacted by them for anything recently ( surprisingly!!) I have contacted, compalined and asked what is going on.

 

 

Seems they have sent out 20,000 of these letters , a bulk send or some similar phrase.. to update their records!

 

As i have worked in same place for 10 years seems they now find me unsuitable and may need to undergo all the checks etc etc again! They are investigating and will send me any paperwork required ...why did they not send this before the 'threatening letter' telling me I have not cooperated with them!!

 

I have since been assured that I can continue in my current post as before!! But I really am beginning to think whether I want the hassle of carrying on and re doing all the paperwork they so often lose or ignore!!

 

A lot of considerations on if I carry on , beginning to feel very disillusioned with the whole thing!

 

Inge

Edited September 19, 2007 by Inge

[Guest]

Inge I feel so angry for you.

 

Ofsted are obviously not 'Getting on well', why don't the media pick up on their incompetence instead of always reporting negatively about preschool services. :wacko:

 

Peggy