New Crb Checks

[Andreamay]

Can any one help me understand the new crb checks.Am I right to take it manager/supervisor still goes thru ofsted but any other staff/committee go via any of the 3 companies stated.And we ring one of these companies first to register?Dont feel its verywell explained.and who will pay for these checks?

[Guest]

Hi Andreamay

I have just received a letter today from Stockport SureStart. It states that the changes are only for satff working in and people who live on the premises where day care is provided. They do not apply to

 

The applicant for registration

Any changes to the registered person where this is an organisation, for example a committee

The manager or person in charge of providing actual day to day care.

 

Ofsted will continue to carry out these checks.

To obtain disclosures on staff registered day care providers can:

 

use an organisation contracted by the DfES to process subsidised checks on their behalf (the 3 companies)

use another organisation, known as an umbrella body, registered by the CRB

register with the CRB as a body to carry out checks

 

Then it lists the companies you mentioned. You have to register with them first but there will be no cost to providers who will be registering or are currently registered with Ofsted.

Hope this helps.

Linda

[Andreamay]

thank you Linda, I wonder why they bother to send the letter to sessional pre-schools just to confuse us no doubt!Also would that then include pre-schools who offer full day care?presume yes.thanks again for your help.

[Guest]

It also applies to sessional care Andreamay. I think we may have our wires crossed here. It is for all settings who have to be registered with Ofsted-pre-schools, day nurseries, out of school clubs.

I don't know why they have done this-I assume because they are having problems coping with all the work involved.

Linda

[Andreamay]

sorry linda I am seriously thinking I am to thick for this job!so a new committee just formed last week do they or do they not send a dc2 to ofsted????

[Running Bunny]

I don't know why they have done this-I assume because they are having problems coping with all the work involved.

 

I think that is more that they can't afford to keep doing it!

 

By reducing the workload/costs to only checking applicants, managers and those living on the premises (for instance family members of childminders) they can put the time and effort and ultimately the cost back on to the provider to get the checks carried out on the staff.

 

I have great concerns about how this is going to be monitored - even though Ofsted are still going to check the recruitment and suitability process, providers could have staff unchecked for months if not longer...

 

The briefing that we have is that if you use the three umbrella bodies that DfES recommend, the cost will be subsidised - does this mean free? However, it does state that this will be reviewed, so costs could increase in the near future.

 

Happy days!

[Guest]

I'm glad I'm not the only one feeling a bit dense! And I'm a bit alarmed at the way things might head with charging etc.

[Guest]

and then there is the question of how often would you deem it necessary to re-check Criminal records to ascertain that all satff are suitable?

 

 

Peggy

 

p.s. I must admit a bit miffed, how do I choose which one of the agencies to use for future CRB checks?

[Guest]

Hi all,

 

I've looked at all the sites (briefly)

 

NESTOR PRIMECARE SERVICES LTD

 

CAPITA EDUCATION RESOURCING (CER)

 

TMG CRB

 

See what you think, I initialy like the last one TMG, they have downloadable PDF's with info including a user friendly policy for CRB checks and Data Protection guide.

 

I am going to email all company and enquire when they advize that CRB should be renewed (and the cost, if any).

 

Initial reading indicates that there will be a cost from all 3 agencies for renewals. Also they all state that CRB checks are not transferable ( portable) so I shall ask what cost this will incur, if required.

 

Peggy

[Sue R]

Hi there,

 

Our Directors have moved very quickly on this (to be fair, they always respond quiclky!) and have gone with TMG CRB. It all looks good, but I've not really had a chance to look at it properly. As they are very careful with money, whilst not being skinflints, I would surmise that the cost is reasonable.

 

Sue

[Guest]

I am going to go with TMG CRB,

here is my email querie I sent to all 3 agencies and their ( well 2) replies.

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

I have looked at you website and found it very informative, however I do have a few questions;

 

1/ How often would you advice that a CRB check is renewed?

2/ If for example,a renewal is advised after a certain time limit, would this incur a cost, and if yes, How much would this be?

3/ Are your CRB checks transferable (portable) to another setting, given there has been no childcare employment gap?

4/ If the CRB check is not transferable (portable), would a new check be subsidised, or would a cost incur?

if there is a cost, how much would this be?

 

 

Thank you for your time in answering these queries.

 

I look forward to hearing from you.

 

Yours Sincerely,

 

Mrs. M. Minter

Response from NESTOR ( within 24 hrs)

Dear Peggy

 

In answer to your queries below:

1. Ofsted require CRB checks to be renewed every 3 years.

2. Provided that your company is registered with Ofsted, the Dept for Education and Skills will fully subsidise the cost of the CRB check.

3. CRB Disclosures are not transferrable.

4. Again provided that your company is registered with Ofsted, the Dept for Education and Skills will fully subsidise the cost of the CRB check.

 

I hope this answers your queries.

 

Kind Regards

Sami Lansimaki

Team Leader

Nestor Criminal Records Agency

0207 534 4476

 

 

RESPONSE FROM TMG ( within 5 hrs)

Thank you for your query

1. We are still awaiting a decision from the DfES on frequency of checking within Day care settings. They have promised a response 10.00am tomorrow. However, as a business we recommend 3 years.

2. Again, I am promised a response tomorrow from the DfES

3. There is no portability of Disclosures

4. At this point in time the DfES are fully funding the cost

Kind regards

Dot Crawford

 

 

NO REPLY FROM CAPITA AS YET!!

[Guest]

p.s. I have asked TMG to inform me about their response from DfES as soon possible.

 

Peggy

p.s. In my experience I don't agree with NESTOR answer to question 1.

[Rea]

My CRB is 3 yrs old in November. I asked an Ofsted inspector friend if I needed to renew it and the overall answer I think was 'No'. She said something about Ofsted having to renew theirs but 'No' I dont think we do, although she wasnt very clear, I dont think she knew herself. Can I have a medal for waffling?

[Rea]

Just emailed Dfes, Ofsted and CRB people. I'll get back to you as soon as I hear anything.

[Inge]

renew every 3 years....I too have asked Ofsted and the answer was No as long as thye are with the same employer....transportable...I have done this with a memeber of staff and a commitee member this year...all I had to do was send the original certificate with the DC2 and they were returned to the applicant and approved by Ofsted very qiuckly.

 

I have been working in the same setting from pre- Ofsted and when they took over I asked if all staff already employed needed a check...reply not if they have been approved as staff already by SServices. every time we have an ofsted and at regular intervals I ask the same but reply always same, hence I have not had one!!! (all staff have now though)

 

Peggy... Capita...I believe they are the ones who had the contract and started the crb checks and made all that mess at the beginning of months waiting for replies and checks to be completed.....look forward to the reply if any...

(Hubby used to work with them in different area...not impressed I believe they also messed up the MOD system at some time!)

 

Our cluster meeting beginning of next month is about this...may glean more info then.

 

Inge

Edited October 11, 2005 by Inge

[Guest]

A colleague who can't find her enhanced disclosure certificate phoned OFSTED about it the other day, and asked about renewals at the same time. She was told that her manager ought to phone CRB and ask them as OFSTED didn't know!

[Guest]

Inge,

Got this today ( mid day) from CAPITA

 

"Dear Peggy

 

Thank you for your enquiry regarding the renewal process.

 

We are currently waiting for clarification of the procedures from Ofsted/DfES as soon as Capita is informed of the correct procedure I will contact you again.

 

Kind Regards

Sarah

 

Proactive, I see

It will be interesting to hear what you get from your meeting.

 

Peggy

[Guest]

I have just spoken to TMG regarding registering for CRB checks with them. They are NOT doing rechecks-the girl I spoke to said she believed that Nestor and Capita would be doing them but not TMG. They are only doing new staff. For new staff it is free but she felt that rechecks would have to be paid for.

I then rang OFSTED on 08456014771 and was told that rechecks do not need to be done at this moment in time-even if you were cleared under the old social services system. She said that they would have to be done eventually but not just yet.

Hope this puts some minds at rest.

Linda

[Guest]

Thanks for that Linda,

 

Some discrepency of information there. I will have to check with them what they define as a "new" check, as their answer to Qu: 4 re non transferable says that DfES will pay ( yet this would not be a new check in the fact that this persons details will already be registered with CRB).

 

I do recall reading that the CRB office delete all information on their databases after 6 months ( apart from name & CRB reference number).

 

This has all made me become aware that I need to review my data protection policy.

 

I do think we need "Written Clarification" from Ofsted regards length of time a CRB check is valid ( in one employment setting). Especially as we cannot change Inspectors comments on reports, if they deem a CRB to be out of date, they could state on reports that children are supervised by "unchecked" staff -.

Believe me, I've experienced it when a staffs CRB check was at the local court when she was in the process of adopting, even though Inspectors had her Social Workers contact number, because I could not prove she had a CRB check she was deemed as unsuitable to supervise children, and this went out on my report

 

 

Peggy

[Guest]

I have made a note of the date and who I spoke to and they have recorded the conversation too. So I would argue my case if I should get an OFSTED inspection in the near future.

We can only go by the advice we are given and I suggest that if members are worried that they too contact OFSTED on the above number.

Linda

[Lucy P]

I have received a pack from TMG today. It looks quite straightforward and simple to use. To be honest i am quite excited about starting the process as it seems much easier than dealing with the crb/Ofsted. All checks will be returned within a minimum of 7 days and maximum of 30 days. Yipee!!

[Guest]

I received this email today from TMG,

 

"I now have a written response from DfES and Ofsted. I quote 'At present there is no requirement to carry out a CRB check in respect of an employee who has been with the same provider since obtaining the previous Disclosure, or since appropriate checks were made on initial employment, if this predated the CRB.'

 

I have asked the DfES to ensure Ofsted communicate this message doen the line. I hope this helps.

 

Dot Crawford"

 

So, as I understand it if current staff have a CRB, this stands, with no time scale or expiry date mentioned. If a member of staff has a pre CRB Social Services check this is also still valid. (However, I have noticed the whole paragraph does state "at present")

 

All I can say is that I have found TMG to be very quick with their responses and professional in that they have not made guesses or stated their own interpretations, but have found the time to obtain the answers to my queries straight from the horses mouth, so to speak.

 

Peggy

[Rea]

Weightman, I've emailed CRB the response was this...

 

For the information you require, you will need to contact your employer for their guidance. It is not for the CRB to determine how often an organisation requires checks of their staff.

Kind regards

Shaun Robinson

Criminal Records Bureau

 

Wild Goose Chase???

Still waiting for aresponse from Ofsted and Dfes

[Guest]

I would have said 'unbelievable' but unfortunately it isn't!!

[Guest]

got this from CAPITA today, endorses Linda's comments

 

Dear Peggy

 

Please find below clarification on the process for renewal and transferable CRBs.

 

 

Policy: DfES and Ofsted have advised Capita that at present there is no requirement to carry out a CRB check in respect of an employee who has been with the same provider since obtaining the previous Disclosure, or since appropriate checks were made on initial employment, if this predated the CRB.

 

Future changes: If the policy changes everyone affected by the change will be informed.

 

If the Day Care Provider still wants a repeat check: Day Care Provider employers have the discretion to do repeat checks if they wish, but these will not be covered by the subsidy. The cost will be £12.50 per repeat check plus the CRB Enhanced Disclosure at £34.

 

Portable Disclosure

 

Policy: The DfES have advised that there is no portability of Disclosure. Any applicant changing jobs will need to complete a new Disclosure Application form.

 

Covering the cost: The subsidy will cover the applicant only if they are moving to another Day Care Provider within the scheme.

 

I hope all the above information answers your queries. If you require further details, or would like to discuss any aspect of our service, then please don’t hesitate to contact either myself or one of my colleagues on 0870 850 2516.

[Rea]

Still no response from Ofsted but Dfes emailed back and said to speak to CRB, (see my previous post).

I have just joined a supply agency who required me to apply for a new CRB. No problem there. Today I had an interview with the council run Family Learning dept. they said if I have just applied for a CRB for the agency, I dont need to do one for them, ( I thought they werent portable ) they also said they need to be renewed after 3 yrs (says who??)

I have never been so confused over anything, everyone contradicts everyone else. The world has gone mad and it's taking me with it

[Guest]

"The world has gone mad and it's taking me with it " present tense, Rea? , I thought you were already mad

 

I don't think there is any "legislation" that requires checks to be done "between" jobs or "after any time scale".( anyone correct me if I'm wrong please) Our responsibility as employers is to ensure that children are safe. If we can justify our decisions from the information we gain about an employee and "argue" our point with anyone who challenges our decisions then, to me, that is enough, until we are required "in law" to follow specific criteria such as after a length of time a CRB is deemed invalid, or by moving jobs renders a CRB invalid.

Personally speaking, my manager has been with me since her last CRB check (2004). How do I know she has not been convicted of any offences? I don't for sure, but I ask myself, what offence would she have to commit to warrant the loss of her job?, to be a risk to the children, at the workplace, where she is under observation? Any such offence would surely have a court appearance / custodial sentence? As a friend of the family as well as employer, I would know. My daughter also works for me, I would certainly know about any convictions against her. However, some of my staff I do not know much about their "out of work" lifes and these I would have regular checks made. How long is long enough between checks? As we all know the CRB is only valid on the day it is issued. It is having systems in place, at the workplace to ensure children are kept safe that is the most important. In some ways CRB checks actually only offer what could be a false sense of security.

 

What do you think?

Has anyone refused a person a job because of information from a CRB check? or sacked a person from information from a subsequant CRB check after employment for longer than say a year?

What type of convictions (apart from the obvious) would you consider as not acceptable for employment?

 

Peggy

[Rea]

Mad in the purest sense though Peggy

 

Have just had reply from Ofsted

 

Ofsted does not have a policy that requires registered persons or their associates to renew CRB checks. Ofsted can request checks on a person if we have reason to believe there is information that may cause us to question their suitability. We will not carry out any checks on day-care staff.

We are currently considering whether to establish a policy for rechecking those people where we retain responsibility for determining their suitability.

If you are a childminder or day-care registered person, we will let you know if you are required to repeat your CRB check. If you are a day-care employee you should contact one of the contracted umbrella bodies detailed in the attached letter. Please be aware that if you are a day-care employee, you will have to pay for the check yourself.

 

Kind regards

Sasha Williams

Ofsted Earlyyears

 

So there you are. Madness complete

[Guest]

"We are currently considering whether to establish a policy for rechecking those people where we retain responsibility for determining their suitability"

 

Thanks for that Rea, I shall quote this to any Inspector who dares to suggest that my staff CRB checks are "out of date" or "over 3 yrs old"

 

With an added comment of "If my regulators do not have a policy on rechecks, I cannot be penalised for not having one either"

 

Personally, I think I will do checks on a regular basis ( possibly 3 yrs, don't know yet). This topic has reassured me though, it has also taken the pressure off me to keep abreast of all my staff CRB check dates ( one to be renewed January, one in march etc etc) Now I think I can reasonably do repeat "block" checks of all staff say every 31/2 yrs without worrying that someone may be 6 months out of date. (if you see what I mean)

 

Peggy

[Guest]

I'm still unhappy that we would have to pay for any 'renewals'. It's almost like a tax on those who retain their staff for, say, 3 years.