A problem - age appropriate?

[Possum]

It would seem we have a problem. We have a little girl at Preschool, aged 3, whose parents had a vindictive spit up just over a year ago, with court battle after court battle over where the little girl would live.

 

Mum is in her 40's and has two children from her previous marriage, and Dad is 27, now living with his Mum so that someone can help provide stability for the little girl whilst he's at work. He has been granted custody (finally).

 

The little girl goes to her Mum's on Sundays and stays until Tuesday morning, as part of their access arrangement. All was working fine until Mum has 'found religion'. Dad has just called me in to chat with him as he's very concerned with some of the things his daughter is now saying. Apparently God with throw her onto the fire with witches if she's bad, so when she's told off for something, she immediately goes into a corner to pray to say how sorry she is. She tells him about Jesus being nailed to a cross and that he is watching her to see she's good (this is freaking her out and causing nightmares).

 

She talks about the devil and witches and 'you shouldn't kill' a great deal and he has become increasingly concerned about it. He challenged Mum about what she was telling the little girl and she said she's reading 'age appropriate' religious books to her and they pray a lot at night and mealtimes. She wouldn't let him come to the house to chat about it, and now he's concerned about what might be in the house too.

 

I've suggested that he needs to keep challenging what the little girl is saying, to Mum, to find out the facts behind it. She's a very impressionable little girl who is really easily scared - can't even tolerate a vacuum cleaner on!

 

What else can I suggest to him - it's a really tricky situation!

[sunnyday]

I didn't want to read and run.......but I really need some time to think about this........my gut feeling here is that this is a 'Safeguarding' issue

 

I'll be back........

[finleysmaid]

why dont you ring social services and have a chat about this (or even Dad could do this) ...i have to say it rings bells for me. Are cafcass involved? that might be another line to go down.

[sunnyday]

This is just a short extract from the Department of Healths definition of Emotional Abuse:

 

'...........it may involve causing children frequently to feel frightened or in danger'

 

The very thought of this is making me shudder.......

[garrison]

Have you spoke to mum about this? Is mum aware that the child is scared? - maybe explain to her that while an adult can cope with such ideas, a small child may (and is) getting frightened by it.

Do you have a local vicar or church school you could ask for advice?

[finleysmaid]

Victoria Climbie's case was based on 'religious' effects on children....be careful with this one....

[hali]

would be ringing big alarm bells with me - ring social care for advice

[Guest sn0wdr0p]

I would say this is a safeguarding issue. As I have said on the forum before, a very wise headmaster said to me something along the lines of "If you need to ask me for advice then you have enough of a question in your mind to warrant a chat with the safeguarding team".

[narnia]

You need to keep a written record of all these events.............things the child says etc and you need to phone your Lado for advice. As others have said, this could lead to a horrid outcome for this child. Don't be sitting there in a years time wishing you had said, or done something.

Mind you, my grandchild started a church school last September and is constantly reminding us that 'God made everything and that he gave his son, Jesus to die for us'.............children at this age are very impressionable and believe everything that is said to them by those in authority.......parents, teachers etc. When I ask Niamh why Jesus had to die, she stoutly tells me that it is so we can all be good now. I know she's ok and she will grow to question this in the future. Can you say the same about the child you are looking after???

 

oh one last thing...........it's not a tricky situation. It's clear: the child is being frightened by what her mother is telling her. Act now........today.

[Guest]

How awful, poor child.

 

This is obviously very wrong as its upsetting the child so much. I also think you need to seek advice from your local safeguarding team asap.

 

Are the other children at your setting picking up on her unusual behavour?

[flowlow]

This is awful and I agree with all above safeguarding issue, however I would also log anything that she says to you (which I am sure you would) and encourage dad to do the same dates, times, what was said. I would right or wrong be gently putting other views over as well so that she gets a more balanced view point although you would need to get advice absolutely!!!!

[Possum]

Had another meeting with Dad today, and he has now contacted his Social Worker from the court cases for advice - just waiting for a call back (he emailed). I have given him some other phone numbers in case she's off sick, or away, so that he can get some help from someone. His Mum was in the meeting today too, and she reiterated everything he told me yesterday. I read him what I had logged, and he agreed that was correct. He's happy that I have logged it in case he needs it.

 

He showed me a text message his ex had sent him, which said that it was 'his job' to educate the little girl 'in the ways of the lord', but as he obviously wasn't doing it, she was having to. She quoted several bible passages and I suggested that he look them up on the internet to see what it is she is actually quoting at him.

 

I also suggested that he could ask to borrow the 'age appropriate' books so that he can see what is actually being said (and so I can take a sneaky peek too)

 

Little girl was in preschool this morning and was fine, no praying evident, but then, she wasn't 'naughty'! She was concerned when she spilled her milk, but no more so than any other child would be.

[sunnyday]

That's all good - really hope that all works out for this little girl........

[Possum]

Yes, me too. Dad is definitely going to keep us in the loop

[Possum]

Just to update. Social Services have told Dad that they don't see it as a problem, they have suggested that he should ask to see the books and then just tell her if he doesn't think they are appropriate.

 

So I suppose the ball is just in his court, but we'll be backing him up and noting down anything we see that is out of the ordinary.

 

I told him that if he's not happy with what they've said, he should keep on at them

[sunnyday]

Unbelievable

 

So it's not a problem that this poor little girl is frightened...........they think perfectly acceptable that she is 'praying for forgiveness'..........actually I'm not going to go on I will only 'wind myself up'

[flowlow]

it is unbelievable although can't help but wonder if it is because it touches on religion, maybe not want to be seen as discriminating?!? it's easier to turn a blind eye than have to face a religion battle!! - or is that just me being cynical!!!!

 

All you can hope is that everything dad does and that you do in setting can give her courage and stability and help her work it through!!!

[sunnyday]

I hear where you're coming from Johanna1 - but.........safeguarding 'issues' are difficult - that's the 'top and bottom' of it - I truly believe there is a safeguarding issue here - the poor little girl is frightened - I do wonder whether dad told the Social worker the 'whole' story - if he did then I am shocked and horrified to hear that this 'is not a problem'.........

 

In my opinion the Social worker should visit 'mum' and the little girl and establish exactly what is going on.

 

I don't want to turn this into a 'bashing Social Workers' thread - they do a fantastic job (on the whole) - but this situation cannot (imo) just be allowed to continue - that's just the sort of lack of action that gives Social Workers a 'bad name'.

 

Right enough said - if anyone sees me anywhere near this thread again - shoot me!

[flowlow]

I totally agree sunnyday I didn't mean to imply that that was what I thought just wondering if that is why they are reluctant to get involved.

[Possum]

It's unsettling though, isn't it, that a parent can ask social services for help, and not get at least a bit of support. It takes a LOT to contact them. I understand that they are busy, and have to prioritise, and that this may seem 'small fry' in the general mix of things, but I had expected better, and I'm saddened for him.

 

We're doing all we can, and so far we've not seen anything that is out of the ordinary, she's not the sort of child that gets 'told off' really, so we don't expect to see any praying in a corner.

 

We're hoping it's just a fad and Mum will tire of it before leaving too many emotional marks on the little girl.

[Possum]

Just an update again, thank you so much to everyone who responded with their thoughts and ideas.

 

Everything has gone very calm, Dad hasn't mentioned anything else and the little girl seems happy. She will have been with her Mum more this week, with it being half term, so we'll see what pans out next week when she's back in.

[sunnyday]

Just an update again, thank you so much to everyone who responded with their thoughts and ideas.

 

Everything has gone very calm, Dad hasn't mentioned anything else and the little girl seems happy. She will have been with her Mum more this week, with it being half term, so we'll see what pans out next week when she's back in.

 

Sounds like good news.......thanks for the update.......