Do we need topics?

[Guest LOSINGTHEWILLTOLIVE]

I recently attended a meeting with our HT who told us that we should go with the childrens ideas because the most important thing was that the children met their targets in reading and writing and maths and this could be done by observing them and scaffolding them in their own preferences. Apparently they do not heed to be taught anything else except how to hold a pencil and use it effectively and how to count and recognise numerals. Are we dumbing down the curriculum at the age of 4 years old now because it really stuck in my throat?

 

We now use child initiated ideas for our themes and just finished learning about superheroes to get the boys writing targets up, but if we don't move them on to other 'real life' superheroes (old style People Who help us topic!) then they will not have the knowledge about police, fire fighters and paramedics and that is citizenship isn't it? I dont understand what he means - am I missing something?

 

Any ideas most welcome

[Lucie]

I think this is because the new profile is going to focus on the prime areas and literacy and mathematics as the important things. A bit like the old one used to do 6+ in PSED and CLL or whatever it was (sorry baby brain, Ive been off work a while).

You still need to teach in all areas of the curriculum though, don't let your head think that assessment is everything. The early years curriculum is so inter-woven and Im sure that your head really wants well rounded children moving through school.

[Conker]

I always think children dont know what they dont know. its all very well being child led but we need to educate them as well. its a fine line we tread!

[Guest]

I wish I worked for your head! I am probably in the minority here but I find teaching topics children are not interested in boring. The main thing is that the goals are met and you don't have to teach 'people who help us' for the children to reach their goals, there are other things you can do. I think we should be teaching celebrations and things that happen so the learning is purposeful ie. spring right now, but wish I didn't have to have my topics set out ie. this week we are doing mini beasts, next week we are doing water. If you want to teach police etc. maybe just get a police officer in as a guest visitor and go from there. Children need experiences, you are so lucky to have that freedom. Remember there is no curriculum for EYFS that you have to follow, there is only the goals that you have to get to so it can be taught any way you like. Saying that I think you should move their learning on when you can, when its relevent, its about scaffolding and supporting so you will still want to stretch them, in looking at real life heros. If they are interested, why not?

[Guest]

Well said KatherineH as that's what the EYFS is about. I can understand LOSINGTHEWILLTOLIVE that you feel some 'topics' maybe missed but you can creatively build on what the children are interested in and subtly incorporate a ideas as you scaffold their interest.

[Guest]

We have a group who love super hero's play - we did everything to support them made light sabres they drew and measures them but at the same time we had the police, army and fire fighters in to show how we have real life super hero's I think you can just connect their interests to what is going on in the real world - the children are having their interests met and learning new things as well - I think themes are fine as long as you can identify that you expanded them from the childrens interests xx

[Guest]

Our school is taking away topics and we are thinking about the 'skills' instead as the context can be anything. We are using questions as starting points and then going from there it is hard work as there is nothing to hang on to but its good fun too!

[Guest LornaW]

No we don't need topics. Watch the children get to know their interests and then provide a provocation! Have a look at Lillian Katz book http://www.amazon.co...64121188&sr=8-1 also watch her on YouTube talking about provocations http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXel4dZV7D0

Edited March 24, 2013 by LornaW

[Guest]

It's hard to get used to the idea of not doing topics after all these years of a topic requirement. I have got a lot of ideas and reassurance from 'The Reception Year in Action' by Anna Ephgrave - heavily promoted at the Early Excellence centre. It makes a lot of sense. I am trying to take things from it that fit with my children/school/style of teaching etc but it is really inspiring and I am constantly dipping into it for reassurance. Also Alister Bryce Clegg is brilliant I read his stuff and look at his website ABC does.

[finleysmaid]

well losingthewilltolive (bit concerned about your tag :blink: ) i am not going to say what you want me to say i'm afraid ...i don't belive in setting topics like this. Why do you feel that teaching about police/fire and paramedics is so important? what do the children really need to know about these roles? If you are going to teach them about ringing for help how long is that going to take? In the curriculum this is really a very small part ....be interested in different occupations could be covered by a plethora of things why just choose 3? Just by putting out some appropriate props you are probably going to get the responses you want...so why make it into a 3 week topic????? what children need to be taught is much more than just reading and writing...it is about thinking and creating and being! If your enquiring minds want to go down the line of what a police officer does then fantastic....but does it really matter if they don't?

It worries me that you say you've just finished learning about superheroes....so if little johnny wants to do this next week what will you do? if he wants to go and write a letter to batman are you going to stop him? and what about all those children who didn't want to learn about superheroes in the first place?

If you, as a practitioner cannot think outside the box then how are your pupils going to be able to?

Sorry ...i'm with your HT get your eye on the prize of learning outcomes and allow your students the freedom of how to get there.

[green hippo]

Hi all,

Personally when I consider the whole teacher-led/child-led thing I don't just think about it in terms of the types of activities or times and rations of when they happen but also how I approach learning in my setting in a more holistic way. E.g. when we are following an interest - I mix-up child-initiated ideas from this with my own adult-initiated thoughts but ALWAYS with my eye on the LEARNING NEEDS not on WHAT activities we could do. In my setting, I am required by my SLT to have themes but I keep these as open-ended as possible so that children can have as much say as possible then we inter-mingle both the children's and the adult's ideas together.

I have read and use the Mindstretchers book about Talking and Thinking Floorbooks as well as just completing the Elklan speech and language training and both these support doing 'topics' or 'themes' as they help children embed new learning and vocabulary by repeating and revisiting ideas and feeding-back the learning that has taken place over a period of time. The Mindstretchers book talks in detail about how to approach themes e.g. children learn better if they just learn about 1 type of person who helps, down to what they have for their lunch!

Recently, our theme was animals which we (children and adults together) narrowed down to pets due to the current interests, then the children led it into learning around mainly about dogs and cats. Of course these themes can be child-initiated or adult-initiated. I call them themes to remind everyone that it is not to completely take-over every corner of the setting (unless the children want this, of course). I never plan just a whole range of activities which are linked to the topic UNLESS the learning that I want to cover also fits in too. And we always allow for little themes all of the time - e.g. there will always be something princess related and superheros related as it's what the children love!

I think as adults we have to be 'clever' at filtering in extra bits that we feel are important for the children to learn, that they may never ask about or initiate themselves. We do a lot of moment-by-moment (Anna Ephgrave style) teaching as well and we feel we've got a good balance.

Just my thoughts

Green Hippo x

[Guest LOSINGTHEWILLTOLIVE]

I think you all have a point to some extent and of course we do encourage the children in our school to follow their ideas, thoughts and creative impulses because this is a natural process. We do not discourage any child who wishes to explore a theme further because in play children learn how to learn.

My point is that we are not 'educating' our children but merely providing them with "skills" which may or may not be of any use in their future.

I think I am going to experiement a little to see what happens and what works best for our children using all your ideas - Many thanks for these, I am well and truely inspired!

Edited March 24, 2013 by LOSINGTHEWILLTOLIVE

[Guest LornaW]

I would argue we are educating by providing them with skills. The skill to ask if they don't understand, the skill to discuss, the skill to solve a problem, the skill to control their emotions, to articulate. The skill to develop motor control enough to mark make and then write, to read to know more or less etc etc I just don't teach it through a topic that I think is more important that topics that interest the children!

 

Good luck with your experiment it will be interesting to hear how it goes!

 

LornaW

[louby loo]

I hate 'topics' with a vengeance

 

I am unfortunate enough to have attended a school which trialed topic based learning in the late 60s - it still sticks with me now as to how boring it was! Fine if you loved the topic. I switched off most of the time .

 

We have lots of mini themes going...... 100% child led - and as others have said, we then try and enhance and move forward fluidly [police, drs visits etc]

[Guest]

Someone said recently in training "Why do we teach knowledge rather than skills when we don't know the knowledge children will need in the future?" which I thought was very interesting...

[Guest LOSINGTHEWILLTOLIVE]

Knowledge provides us with the ability to question and theorise. I have taught adults and young children and the skills are just methods and practical application on how to do something. Therefore knowledge is what is contained in the head and skill is what is done by the hand. It is not just the acquisition of knowledge, but the acquisition of understanding that gives children the transferrable skills necessary for their future - whatever that will be.

 

I was thinking the other day why do we teach children handwriting and how to hold a book up the right way, especially when my own teenage children use mostly text language and email and 'read' on line e-books? Children have a wonderful way of seeing things in a very abstract way and that is what encourages creativity and innovation. If we just teach skills arn't we are capping a childs potential? I don't know its like circles inside circles

[Guest]

I think there needs to be a balance between completely child led learning and 'themes' I try as much as possible to go with children's interests but there is something to be said for the enthusiasm and interests of the teacher sparking new interests in children that they might never have come across on their own. I'm thinking of my daughter who is in year 1 and who has recently been learning about isambard kingdom Brunel, yes in year 1!!! I was horrified, that's not going to float her boat I thought. How wrong could I be, my daughter is designing and building bridges at home, making paper mache ships, can tell me all about his life and has had a fabulous term all because of the enthusiasm of her teacher. I know there have been times myself when I have i suppose you could say 'imposed' a mini theme on my reception class but have had the whole class with me and inspired and excited sometimes about things they would never have come across themselves.

Deb

[Guest LornaW]

Provocation! Provocations! Provocations! If I want to hook the children in that is what I use by building on what I have seen.

 

LornaW

[dreamgirl]

What is the difference between a provocation and introducing a new topic?

[finleysmaid]

IMO a provocation is something that may engage the child, ignite their curiosity or just be out of the ordinary!! whereas a topic is a pre-determined path or subject

[dreamgirl]

Well, sticking up for those guys who might be doing some topics, the arrival of a fire engine in People Who Help Us would definitely satisfy that definition of a provocation!

[Guest LornaW]

Yes finleysmaid I agree! Here is a provocation I heard in a reception class in a school last year. As the teacher was reading a story to the children the phone rang. The TA answered it in hushed tones while the teacher carried on reading but of course some children were listening to the TA. "Just a minute says the TA I'll ask. Excuse me Mrs ? And children farmer Bob wonders if we can help him 3 horses have escaped from his field and he doesn't have a trailer big enough to get them In and take them back to the farm. He wonders if the children can help by designing and making a trailer for three horses.?"

 

Well of course the children were excited. The staff already had materials around the room that could be used and so the children were hooked!

 

That is the sort of thing I think of. The teacher then brainstorms designs, lots of design technology, discussion, stories, maths etc etc

 

LornaW

[finleysmaid]

But isn't this just the joy of working with FS? You can weave stories and magic into anything...why stick to a boring list :1b

[Guest]

 

 

...sorry to repeat this clip on here too but this video summarises my contribution to thread...

[mollypiper]

We stopped doing topics in general under local council advice as well. However there is, as already said, the scope to fit in ideas and provocations wherever you like. E.g. a child just asked if we could have a teddy bear picnic - cue the opportunity to talk about the 'topic' of teddies and dolls, write invitations, discuss food etc.

A couple of children were really into pirates and that snowballed until the majority of children were making their own telescopes and eye patches alongside pirate story telling, map making etc.

We still investigate 'topics' like Spring by planting bulbs, finding frogspawn, providing topic related books etc but it is done in an informal way and will follow whichever direction the children take us. I don't agree with sticking to certain topics on certain weeks and making all children follow this. My personal view is that if we are providing the right experiences it doesn't have to be set in stone as formal topics. We still ask the PCSO or librarian to come in but not because its a topic. I hope that makes sense.

Edited March 30, 2013 by mollypiper

[Guest LOSINGTHEWILLTOLIVE]

O.K I think I now understand ....

So 'provocations' are used to spark learners thinking and imagination to prompt them to take control of their own learning.

Then, in Year 1 these same children have to sit at a table and work on topics and if they are lucky they can do some creative, independent thinking on their own and when they have finished their "work"!

I think we are so lucky that we can explore these "Reggio" inspired aspects with the children and I have no doubt how much they benefit from it. No more topics for me, however creativity seems to have been down graded in the curriculum, and it has been replaced with targets, next steps and tests.

Thanks for all your comments.

[Guest]

Alabaloo, thanks so much for posting that wonderful clip, it brought tears to my eyes! I think Mr Gove needs to watch it over and over again.

[zigzag]

Oh Alabaloo please explain the meaning of that clip. I totally do not understand it, what am I missing?? :blink:

[Guest]

An inspirational clip, thank you for sharing

[Beau]

Oh Alabaloo please explain the meaning of that clip. I totally do not understand it, what am I missing?? :blink:

The narration is part of a talk given by Ken Robinson - he is a very inspirational speaker. You might want to google him to find more of his wonderful talks on education and creativity. Someone has obviously put this one together with a clip of a dancer just to illustrate what he is saying.