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Anybody In A School-run Pre-school?


Hello Kitty
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I don't understand how it all works. We've been taken over by the school whose site we're on and had the big O in this week. At pre-school we had an inspector in for about 20 minutes yesterday - she didn't speak to anyone - then she came back today, told me she wanted to see what activities we had today. I volunteered some things about our outside play and then she left. We have been given a grading on the basis of this which I'm not allowed to talk about.

How can they give you a grading on that?? When we were committee run it went on for hours and we were all quizzed....

I'm so frustrated.

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We are on the school site and under the school umbrella but financially indepenadant. For the last two inspections we have had our own full inspection a couple of days before the school has theirs, our inspection lasted one morning only. Have to say that I would be very miffed if we were inspected as part of the school and included in their report.

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Where the childcare is managed by the school governing body you will be inspected as part of the section 5 inspection -that could explain why??

In children's centre inspections we've had, where they run coordinated inspections, the childcare has been part of the school inspection and the centre is a separate report.

 

"Section 5 inspections are not now intended to evaluate the effectiveness of children’s centres. However section 5 inspectors will need to:

- inspect any provision of the Early Years Foundation Stage offered by a centre managed by the school, in order to contribute to the judgement about the overall effectiveness of the Early Years Foundation Stage within the school."

- consider the impact of any services and activities offered through or by the centre that might contribute to judgements on the school’s leadership and management; partnership working, and care, guidance and support. These services or activities might include:

- a crèche service to allow parents of pupils to access family support services

- wrap-around care for pupils of the school

- family support services offered as part of the school’s extended services.

 

Inspectors should refer to the separate guidance on inspecting extended school provision: www.ofsted.gov.uk/Ofsted-home/Forms-and-guidance/Browse-all-by/Education-and-skills/Schools/Supplementary-guidance-and-resources-for-inspectors.

 

Inspectors must emphasise to the school’s and the centre’s head/s that they will not inspect the children's centre. However inspectors should also make clear that they will evaluate the quality of any Early Years Foundation Stage provision located in the centre where it is managed by the school. They will also take account of evidence arising from related services that might contribute to judgements about the school."

 

Cx

Childrens_centres_guidance.doc

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Hello there.

 

We were inspected as part of school 2 weeks ago, and since September 2008 the "private" provision run by the school has indeed been under the schools umbrella so we get inspected as part of the school.

 

After having had an inspection where just the private stuff was looked at ie lunch club, afterschool club and private nursery sessions it is hard then to stand by and be judged as a whole along with your reception class.

However I suppose on the other side of this then everyone should be working together to provide effective education. . . .

 

This inspection has been very hard and I also cant talk about it right now but the inspectors were in nursery for about 18 minutes over the course of the 2 days. . . . 3 mins before tidy up in the afternoon and the last 15 minutes of the morning session. So basically they saw no activities going on at all. To add to this I went to the meeting with the reception teacher to try and put forward ALL the team did not see and we were give 15 minutes to talk to them.

 

I can see that the EYFS should be effective as a whole but surely then equal time needs to be spent between both reception and nursery.

 

As a private setting inspected alone, we got all outstandings and goods.

With the schooll inspection then coming only 7 months later the results were similar.

However the team were very critical of the reception (and unfairly so I might add) and now I wonder what that will mean for our gradings this time

(We have not seen the report yet which might indicate to some just how bad things were!!!!!)

 

20 mins isnt a good amount of time to judge you on I agree. I would hope that your head had lots of info re the setting and it was in as part of the SEF so it wouldnt have been all she judged you on but never the less it does seem harsh.

 

So sorry it has not been good for you x

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We rent a classroom/garden from our local primary school, so although within school grounds we are a private setting and run and owned by me. The school is due an Ofsted in the new year however we are not due for another year or more, reading all of this is making me wonder if we will be inspected again with the school even though we are not due! But I am assuming we would have our own full inspection?? I have asked Ofsted but the replies have been a bit vague!! :o

 

Kris

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Kristina I think you would be classed as private and get your own inspection. . . . our private bit is run by the school and was only set up when county cut our afternoon nursery session.

 

I think we get inspected with school because we are run by school and the school governing body!

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My situation is similar to some of the above - as a PVI who rent premises in a school - and the Head teacher is the registered person for the setting I got inspected in 2008 as part of the school , half a day with one inspector , but my judgements were separate from the schools judgements. I then had a further inspection in 2010 which was a stand alone and again got my own set of gradings, both times I was not lumped in with the schools and thats how I feel it should be . There was talk about us amalgamating with the school fully but financially and for many other reasons thats not an avenue we wish to go down at the present time. The school are due an inspection imminently so we are on standby just in case Mrs O comes knocking again. :o

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Before the school took us over, Ofsted used to inspect us at the same time - I think purely because they were in the area really! But we got our own separate inspection.

 

I have spoken to the HT and she has given me feedback. My worry is she has told me what she wants to tell me and not what was actually said. I'm also worried that she hasn't told the whole story to the inspectors as she wants to shock the staff into bucking their ideas up :o I was quite relaxed before the inspection as we've been fine before. I really want to say a lot more but am scared I'll get into trouble as I did once before for being honest on here! I can't stop crying I'm so upset and frustrated by it all.

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So don't say any more and don't get upset - you know that you have done your best , but a set of circumstances totally beyond your control may have meant that the result you know you deserve has possibly been taken from you. All you can do is wait and see, it's really not worth getting stressed about - just write down what it is thats bothering you - look and see if it's anything you can do something about, if not then just screw it up and throw it away . Gets rid of the frustration, then have a large bar of chocolate and a glass of wine and chill . Monday is two days away and you need some time for you. :o

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Awww thanks! Thing is, yes, I have done everything I could have and so has my deputy. It's the other staff. I've put on training, I've used planning meetings and supervision meetings and peer observations and I've commented during sessions. Short of standing behind them telling them what to say I can't do any more to improve their practice :o Can I?

I just feel so rubbish that all the stuff we do on top of regular sessions has been ignored. Our SEF wasn't looked at and nobody spoke to us.

The Reception teacher wants us to do things I am not comfortable with and don't feel are in line with EYFS and I've even sought advice from our EYFS team and they agree with me. The HT has told me that we have to do it and I explained why I didn't want to and have offered a compromise. Amazingly this inspector has apparently said we should be doing this same thing that we don't want to do... coincidence? I think not. I honestly think she's stitched us up and I'm gutted.

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Sounds as if the inspector may not be as tuned in to EYFS as she might have been and is running with school based ideas possibly - or could be the HT has stitched you up as you fear, either way you are in a difficult position. Look at it this way, yes you are in charge of your area but ultimatley the buck stops with the Head - so if you implement whatever it is in some shape and form , and it is a disaster then thats not your fault if it's inappropriate. In as much as if you are having issues with the staff , you do all you can , if thats not working them pass it back to the Head, as your line manager, and voice your concerns and ask for support. The upside of being part of a school is you have extra resources to hand and a chain of command to pass things up to. Make sure you log every conversation and whatever it is you have been asked to do , and just sit tight. :o

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There's a million miles between what is said in feedback orally and what actually goes into the report. A school I know had a disasterous event during their inspection in EYFS but reading the report you wouldn't know anything had occurred.

All you can do is wait until the report is published and work from there.Who knows - 20 mins might be all they needed to see good practice. You'd be surprised how you can feel that in a really short time - just looking and listening tells you a lt in a relatively short time!!

 

cx

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looking at reports from similar set ups we'll be lucky to get a sentence and I bet it will be negative :o It's called my whole professionalism into question for me. I thought we were doing a really good job - now I feel like everything I thought was wrong and I'm not the right person for the job. I am seriously considering handing my notice in on Monday.

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I'd say try to get a different perspective.....In my time I was in a school that went into special measures. Not once but twice. The first inspection was weeks before I joined it as DHT and then several years later when the staffing was in utter disarray and there had been 3 HTs in 2 years it went back in. (OK my EYFS was judged good but we were just part of the whole school report; in those days there wasn't a separate section).

 

Whilst it's hard when there is negative, and in our case pretty public feedback all you can do is move forwards and not let it become a personal issue. The institution may not be working effectively enough but it is not the direct fault of any one individual. In fact the buck stops with the HT not you.

 

Ofsteds come and go and I know after all these years that a critical inspection isn't the end of the world. Working in complex inner city schools has taught me that one!! The issue may be with the school EYFS classes and yes it may seem unfair that you are all in that mix together but what comes out of this is the increased professional strength you gain from movng on from whatever key issues are given and how you rise to the challenge of meeting them. Sometimes a bit of a professional challenge is actually quite enabling - you step back and really reappraise. I always thought that in the end my school was actually on the cutting edge of practice because of being in special measures and there were things we were doing that the "outstanding" schools hadn't even considered because they were stuck in their "way".

 

It's also surprising what additional things can happen because of an ofsted report! I've seen an entire outdoor area built where there was none because of ofsted, after years of staff asking and asking for one!

 

Quitting won't make you feel better - until the report is published there is no way of knowing how anything will be phrased. In my humble experience you just have to pick yourself up, dust yourself down and show the world (and especially colleagues and teams) that you for one are ready for the challenges ahead.

 

Try not to dwell on it - you can't change anything by upsetting yourself....Chin up!!

 

Cx

Edited by catma
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Thank you for that and I do get what you're saying but I won't ever get to see what was actually reported by the inspector. It will all come from the HT and she will say what she wants for her own agenda.

I know quitting won't make me feel better but you know it's not worth the pain any more. I have spent the last 3 weekends in pain with a high temperature yet manage to get through the week! I guess on adrenalin... I don't have time to get to the doctors as I'm there from before 8am until well after 6 (as I do after school club too). I got pushed into taking that on over the summer holidays and in spite of saying I would only do it if it didn't affect my own daughter (as I take her to dance and karate after school) and the Rainbows unit I run, the HT is pushing for me to get someone else to take her and for me to give up Rainbows so I can do that evening too. I feel drained. She hasn't blamed me, she has singled out certain members of staff and is saying our grading is based on their lack of skill. In perspective I put on inhouse training to address their particular lack and have put other things in place such as peer observations, supervision meetings, 1-1s with staff to discuss their key-working and also extra initiatives to try to balance the lack in good practice - for example we do language spirals to help the children low in S+L skills. I never had a chance to say any of this and I'm not sure the HT even know to have told them either. Sorry for long rambles but it's all just going round and roound in my head and I'm not meant to be talking about it.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Thank you. The report is out now and to be honest it's not as bad as I thought it would be. We got a whole PARAGRAPH!!! It could have been better but it doesn't make it clear that we were graded as satisfactory so it looks like we are lumped in with the whole Foundation Stage which got good :o

 

Not happy still but hey ho, let's move onwards and upwards eh? I was able to prove to the HT that I already an action plan in place before Ofsted came that addressed the things they mentioned so it showed I had already identified those weaknesses and so I feel now that at least I have been doing my best whereas when I started this thread I felt that I had failed the pre-school. Having said that I wish I'd been more proactive in promoting us rather than waiting to be asked - which didn't happen. I'll be more prepared to do that next time xD

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Am pleased the outcome wasn't as disasterous as you felt at the time - and thank goodness you didn't take the panic option and leave! So now it's time to move on , this has been a valuable learning experience for you, and you now know things about the Head and the setup you didn't before. Good luck for the future. :o

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