hali Posted September 20, 2003 Share Posted September 20, 2003 I have 12 4yr olds at present 1 of which is moving into school in January 2004 and 5 others going in at Easter - a bit late i know but when should you start filling in the foundation stage profile books and should they be completed by the time my children move into school at 5 yrs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 20, 2003 Share Posted September 20, 2003 Hi Hali I was browsing through the forum, I am new here and took the time to get aquainted with the different postings, that's when I came across your "topic starter". Well if you look at the topic starter just below yours, "Foundation stage profiles" (and there are 5 pages), you should find some interesting reading. It might answer some of your questions, though for me it seems to have created more questions and confusion than I originally started with. I hope this helps some. By the way, you didn't say what kind of setting you worked in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susan Posted September 20, 2003 Share Posted September 20, 2003 If your children are in the final year of the Foundation Stage ie will be 5 on their next birthday within the school year 2003-4, they will need a completed profile during the Summer term. The profile is an ongoing document throughout the Reception Year So you should be beginning to make observations & assessments against the profile scales now, recording your judgements by marking the Autumn term circle underneath the statement. By "now". I mean that you should be increasingly aware of the statements and the children's progress towards their attainment, so that at some point before the end of term you can make a judgement & tick the box. At the end of the term you could indicate those statements that are part completed by underscoring that part of the statement that is attained. Susan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hali Posted September 21, 2003 Author Share Posted September 21, 2003 thanks for the replys - i manage a charity pre school in berkshire, i have 60 children on the register ages 2 1/2 - 5 yrs am going on more profile on tuesday just find it all a bit much to cope with and confusing when to start it as have 12 children that need profiles filling in this term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 16, 2003 Share Posted October 16, 2003 Hi there I'm also at a pre-school in Berkshire. I went on a course about the Foundation Stage just before the summer break. It was mind numbing and scary to say the least. I don't know about the rest of Berkshire but pre-schools in Wokingham District have to start the FSP's. I don't think this is true for the rest of England. What makes Wokingham different I don't know!!! if anybody could shed some light on this I would be grateful in knowing the reasons. Do your feeder schools stagger the intake of children in to Reception Year? In the Wokingham Area we do. So this is what we have to do with the FSP - If you have children who start school in the September then you won't need to do the Profile just send the Observation and Assessment document to the school. If you have children who start in January then you will have to complete the Profile for the Autumn Term only. If you have children who start after Easter then you will have to complete the Profile for the Autumn Term and the Spring Term. Confusing? Absolutely! Best of luck mousebat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hali Posted October 16, 2003 Author Share Posted October 16, 2003 thanks mousebat my pre school is in maidenhead and like you i dont why we have to do profiles when other areas of the country dont - have you had your new reference manual yet - i went on that training yesterday!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 18, 2003 Share Posted October 18, 2003 hi Hali What did you think of the training? Is everything as clear as mud? We have all the documenation we need and have started the FSP for children starting school in January. There was a lot of information to take on board on the training course and it'll probably take some time for it all to sink in but I'm sure you'll cope alright. You must remember that teachers of Reception classes are new to all this and find it equally daunting. I doubt they will be judging any of us too harshly when they get the FSP's from the pre-schools. The reason I know this is because I work in a pre-school and as a TA in a Reception class! Do you have any idea why pre-schools in Berkshire have to start the FSP's, because I have no idea whatsoever? mousebat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hali Posted October 18, 2003 Author Share Posted October 18, 2003 hi mousemat no i dont know why we have to do them - it just seems like they like to give pre schools more work to do!! Training was ok and i have started to do profiles just think its extra workload we dont need!! take care Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 19, 2003 Share Posted October 19, 2003 thanks for the replys - i manage a charity pre school in berkshire, i have 60 children on the register ages 2 1/2 - 5 yrs am going on more profile on tuesday just find it all a bit much to cope with and confusing when to start it as have 12 children that need profiles filling in this term. I'm in berkshire too. I'm still waiting for training but have the same problem as you maybe we can keep in touch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 19, 2003 Share Posted October 19, 2003 hi Hali What did you think of the training? Is everything as clear as mud? We have all the documenation we need and have started the FSP for children starting school in January. There was a lot of information to take on board on the training course and it'll probably take some time for it all to sink in but I'm sure you'll cope alright. You must remember that teachers of Reception classes are new to all this and find it equally daunting. I doubt they will be judging any of us too harshly when they get the FSP's from the pre-schools. The reason I know this is because I work in a pre-school and as a TA in a Reception class! Do you have any idea why pre-schools in Berkshire have to start the FSP's, because I have no idea whatsoever? mousebat I'm in Berks. and the reason we have to do the FSP's is to do with the age the children start school. There are only two counties in England which do not take children at school until they are 5 or the term after and therefore we need to begin their FSP's. In other counties, they be done in reception class. Anyone else in Berks here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 19, 2003 Share Posted October 19, 2003 Hi That rule doesn't apply to the whole of Berkshire. In my area of Berkshire children start as rising 5's, not in the term after they are five ! So I'm still wondering why pre-schools in Berkshire, who send children to schools as rising 5's, have to start FSP's? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 6, 2003 Share Posted November 6, 2003 Hi =just browsing the site and found this topic interesting and a bit worrrying - are there a lot of you out there actually filling in the individual booklets for each child? There is no requirement as far as I am aware for individual booklets to be filled in - they are just a suggested way of recording and to my mind a waste of paper and space. Look at page 3 of the FSP file - it clearly states that schools may choose their own recording system. We have developed our own recording system using a spreadsheet - the whole class can be added to one page per section (e.g. Numbers as labels and for counting) and we highlight each achieved step in different colours depending on the term ( a highlighted box indicates step achieved.) It is very easy using this system to identify gaps in learning for groups or individuals, which in turn allows us to plan very focused objective led activities alongside learner-initiated activities. We are also able at a glance to see exactly what stage each child has reached without having to plough through 48 booklets. Don't make work for yourself!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hali Posted November 7, 2003 Author Share Posted November 7, 2003 Hi yhank you fotr all your replies here in berkshire we have to fill them in - believe me if i didnt have to do it i wouldnt!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 7, 2003 Share Posted November 7, 2003 I've been told that we are 'obliged' to fill in the FSP in Wokingham but I still would like to know the reasons why. We have also been told that if the parents don't take on board the FSP then funding for their child could be withdrawn. Also, any pre-school assistant who refuses to take on board the FS and the FSP should not be working in a pre-school. All this information came to light at a course I went on in July. So that's the situation we're in in our little part of Berkshire. Hali - if you find out why Berkshire is so different please let me know. mousebat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted November 7, 2003 Share Posted November 7, 2003 That sounds quite unbelievable Mousebat! (By which of course I don't mean that I don't believe you...) Is there any written documentation of the Berkshire position? Or is it all just verbal? It would be good to persuade them to put some of it in writing so you know that is there 'official' position! Is it the LEA, EYDCP or who, giving you this advice? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mundia Posted November 7, 2003 Share Posted November 7, 2003 I'm wondering if there is still some confusion for some'powers that be' over the statutory nature of the profile itself and the optional nature of the booklet. Could it be that the people advising you in Berkshire are not sure of the difference? (Not that Im suggesting that they dont know what they are talking about but people sometimes do get their wires crossed) As Steve says, something in writing would help- we get everything sent to us as memos. In Birmingham we have to use the eprofile-that is an LEA decision rather than a ntional one so the booklets (after we have ordered them!!!) are completely redundant as we dont use them for reports either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 7, 2003 Share Posted November 7, 2003 The course I went on was run by the LEA and the experts running the session were from Nursery//Infant school backgrounds, and one person was an Ofsted advisor. It was one particular expert at our table who told us the 'rules' about the FSP. One person was absolutely furious by what she heard and certainly vented her anger (in a controlled manner). I'm trying to find out more but I am not having much luck at the moment. When I ask people why, the answer I get is very vague and seemingly unsure. From the way the FSP course was being conducted I came away with the impression that it was statutory and I certainly wasn't the only one. After attending the course I felt extremely disheartened. So I am still none the wiser. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susan Posted November 8, 2003 Share Posted November 8, 2003 Hi, missed the start of this one yesterday and Thursday As Mundia has explained, it is statutory to complete the profile ie provide statistics re attainment for the child at the end of the school year in which they are 5. For many completing the profile seems to have become confused with filling in the pink booklet, which is optional. However, as the children spend 2 years working within the Foundation stage and only the last year, or in some authorities less, in a school the burden of the recording falls in most instances on the Reception class teacher. Parental preference also comes into account as some children could remain in private provision until 5 too, compulsary schooling, of course, does not start until the term after the child's 5th birthday. So, as a private provider receiving funding, if you have children in your setting who are within their reception year equivalent you should be " completing the profile". Children who stay at home, or attend unfunded settings, will not have a profile. In my LEA, we have devised a record booklet, starting from the profile statements and working backwards, to indicate the progress and attainment made by all children in the first year of Foundation Stage, whether they be in nursery schools or in private provision. It is intended that these should be passed with the child as they move between settings. As the Reception teacher, I do not want to negate the important learning that goes before my setting. Could it be that you are being asked to do something similiar? If you have children who are moving on to school during the "reception year", then surely it is not unreasonable to be asked to pinpoint the learning that has already taken place. we all experience the cries of "they don't know that, why haven't they been taught that?" as children move from 1 teacher to another, think of the fall back over a summer holiday but if a child has learnt / can do something demonstrate it by recording it and passing it on. My experience as the reception teacher last year was that the process was horrendous. we unanimously threw our hands up in horror and said we haven't had these long enough! I did fill in the booklets, we did send them home as reports, I vowed never to look at another one again AND even with the new booklet that I have helped to devise I am already drowning in the paperwork. I am not unsympathetic to your plight! If you have record systems in place that allow you to pass the necessary info on whether that be toanother setting or to the LEA with final "scores" then you should not be pressurised to change. Angela is there ahyway you can share with us your recording system. WE all ned to help one another in this and this the great thing about this site- We can!! Susan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 9, 2003 Share Posted November 9, 2003 I understand that the FSP are statutory for schools to complete by the end of Reception so that the governement can colate all the information. It is not statuatory for pre-schools, especially those who send their children to school as rising 5's. As far as I know Berkshire is one of the only counties that requires pre-schools to start the FSP. I have read the appropriate information. What bothers me is being told on a FSP course by a so-called expert, that funding will be withdrawn to a parent not willing to take on board the FSP. I'm trying to find out how concrete her statement was. Of course I'm not suggesting that children are sent to school without any form of assesment, that would be ludicrous, but I don't see why pre-schools should be 'obliged' to start the FSP. If the profile has to be completed by the end of Reception then that's the reponsiblity of the Reception teacher to fill out the booklets. They should use all the information sent from pre-schools in whatever form it comes. In our district we also have cluster meetings between Early Years settings and Infant Schools. I feel somewhat offended that you assume I don't understand the procedure of the foundation stage for pre-school children and Reception children. I am more than qualified being an ex-primary school teacher who now works in a pre-school and a Reception class, and am a mother to a child who started Year 1 last September. So I'm seeing things from both sides of the fence, as a practitioner and a parent. I myself am not impressed with the FSP as a means of an end of year report. If you looked at my sons FSP you would think you were dealing with a normal child who was gifted at maths. My child has a statement of special needs. The p-scales had not been used at all. Yet plenty of information was sent to the teacher in the form of an Obersvation and Assesment Profile, plus numerous meetings with the Head and teacher. I would have much preferred the standard school report. This was the opinion of a lot of parents. Who are we really doing the FSP for ? From my point of view not the parent and not for the teachers (it's creating a lot more work). It's probably a good thing that next year I'm leaving the Early Years and going back to teaching Juniors as I've lost my enthusiasm for this area of education. However, best of luck to all of you battling through the changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susan Posted November 9, 2003 Share Posted November 9, 2003 Mousebat, I am sorry that you feel offended, that was not my intention. I do not know your background until you tell me, although when I read what you say I think I remember reading your introduction? I was merely stating the facts as I see them. I do not work in preschool and no idea what you have been told or why. My perspective may have helped you but if it did not, sorry. I do agree with you that the completion of the profiles is suspect. I made very certain than I erred with caution rather than optimism, if I was erring at all! That is not the picture within the authority that I work and that causes problems in itself. I welcomed the introduction of both the Foundation Stage and the Profile but in many cases, all I can see are gaps widening between practitioners and settings rather than closing. You obviously need to talk with your sons school, although I imagine you have already done this! Susan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 9, 2003 Share Posted November 9, 2003 Hi Susan Please let me apologise. I've just reread what I wrote and I do sound rather angry and that should not have been the case, after all you were only trying to offer me advice! Your reply was interesting to read. It's just that everyone I talk to in my area seem to have rather vague answers about the FSP in pre-schools and I seem to be on some kind of quest to find the answer, yet I'm getting more frustrated. I think maybe I should quit my quest, judging by how I'm coming across in this forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helen Posted November 9, 2003 Share Posted November 9, 2003 Hi Mousebat, You're coming across as a dedicated practitioner who, in her own time, is trying to make sense of all the bureaucracy I come from a similar background as you, ie junior teacher first, then coming into early years. I'm sorry the FS is losing you and you're returning to the juniors! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 13, 2003 Share Posted December 13, 2003 . We have developed our own recording system using a spreadsheet - the whole class can be added to one page per section (e.g. Numbers as labels and for counting) and we highlight each achieved step in different colours depending on the term ( a highlighted box indicates step achieved.) It is very easy using this system to identify gaps in learning for groups or individuals, which in turn allows us to plan very focused objective led activities alongside learner-initiated activities. We are also able at a glance to see exactly what stage each child has reached without having to plough through 48 booklets. Don't make work for yourself!!!! Hi Angela This sounds really great!, I've just been ploughing through my children's booklets, sticking in obs. and highlighting statements. I keep pondering on how to speed up the process. A friend suggested getting my TA to spend an hour a week updating children's files. I like the idea of being able to see the class in spreadsheet format. How many spreadsheets do you have? Is there any way of sharing them with the rest of the frustrated! Thanks Angela O'B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 14, 2004 Share Posted January 14, 2004 Childminders are required to fill them in in Derby but we often find that reception teachers do not want them when the child starts school, especially if the child has been having some sessions at playgroup, pre school or nursery as they seem to prefer thiers. (oh well, maybe one day we will get the recognition we childminders deserve) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susan Posted January 14, 2004 Share Posted January 14, 2004 Thats a shame Mandy. I welcome any information I can get about the children in my class, especially now! If you can give me some info that saves me some time great. You receive training and are using it in the Reception year so how can it not be relevant? I have trouble getting them from my feeder nurseries as they don't feel they should and neither do they send other quick fit info either so it can be really difficult for us Reception teachers!! Susan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 17, 2004 Share Posted January 17, 2004 I'm just catching up on the forum so haven't read all replies and discussions - our system of recording the whole class is done on Microsoft Excel - I think it takes up about 7 pages, but that is for the whole class and the whole profile can be recorded on it. I'll e-mail an example to anyone, but am not technical enough to be able to work out how to share it another way! It isn't hard to set up from scratch in fact, so if I can be of help just get in touch at angeandron@btopenworld.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 17, 2004 Share Posted January 17, 2004 Hi Angela I would very much appreciate a copy of your recording system. I like the idea of putting all the information down on a spreadsheet and have been looking such a system on the internet. Despite all my moaning and groaning of the foundation stage in pre-schools I have taken a job teaching Reception to the new summer intake. My e-mail address is mousebat@hotmail.com. Many Thanks mousebat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cat33 Posted January 18, 2004 Share Posted January 18, 2004 Oh dear, just another page of worried Foundation stage Practitioners. Steve, you were a genius when you started this forum!! It came just at the right time. I think again that there is no right or wrong in fs at the moment. Each school/pre school must do what is right for them or their cluster. I heard Pauline Hoare speak at the NEC last year and she said that the FSP was to be completed in school. The booklet was optional as that is only the "scale Booklet and the profile could be your own form of recording the scales. It was ststutory that you keep a "profile". I am the FS manager and find it unhelpful and unfair that , in FS1 we can't start filling the profile in. Nonsence. We start a Profile in FS1 for each child, recording on the steps and this goes to FS 2 to be continued. We are using the scale booklet(filled in by FS2 teachers!) for now and sharing it with Parents. We have a moderators meeting in March and hopefully we will be able to work out a shared approach. Keep smiling Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 28, 2004 Share Posted January 28, 2004 Hi there Angelac, Would it be possible to have a copy of your spreadsheet-doing it n the computer must save lots of time.Its a pity that teachers never seems to get workload(PAPER) reduced only increased with little assistence or guidance given!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted January 30, 2004 Share Posted January 30, 2004 Hi all - Angela has kindly asked me to post her excel spreadsheet for recording FSP information. So here it is! FSP_from_Angela.xls Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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