Rea Posted May 6, 2005 Share Posted May 6, 2005 Has any one else heard this? Apparently, because of the cost of all the CRB's, Ofsted are saying that the manager will need a CRB but then she can decide whether or not the rest of the staff need to do one. Our PLA DW told me but also that the PLA are checking this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted May 6, 2005 Share Posted May 6, 2005 Doesn't look that way to me Rea - on this page they talk mainly about care home staff requirements and mention school governors not needing CRB checks, but it sounds like the requirement for other education sector workers is the same. There have only been two press releases since last June, neither of which mention a change in legislation. I'd be interested to hear what your PLA person comes back with! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hali Posted May 6, 2005 Share Posted May 6, 2005 dont even mention the letters CRB, 12 wks ago sent off for 10 checks to be done rang last week to see where they are, no sign of them have to re do!!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 6, 2005 Share Posted May 6, 2005 hali - you'll like this one...I've just received something from Ofsted that says I fit to work at pre-school. Great, except I left 18 months ago!!! You have laugh at the poor devils. My CRB took 6 months and two lots of forms so give them a bit more time hali...what's the rush (just jesting). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hali Posted May 6, 2005 Share Posted May 6, 2005 hello mousebat..long time no hear..or see....thanks for that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 7, 2005 Share Posted May 7, 2005 Along these lines - I haven't had to renew my CRB's yet but do we now if we have to pay for them now - if so, how much is it. The first round we had them all paid for but what's happening now? I am out of touch, but need to get my head around this one as they all are coming up for renewal at different points during the year. As a committee run playgroup this clearly will have a serious financial impact as our comittee members change every year and they are required to have CRB's - why I do not know - only a couple of them ever come in to work at the group and purely attend the evening social/committee meetings - do they need a CRB to drink coffee/wine in front of like minded adults!!! Bearing in mind we may have 9 on the committee at any given time you can see my problem and we have been advised that they must all have one. Thoughts and advice please anyone on the wonderful workings of the CRB, their reliability, their proactive nature, their sense of urgency and as they once said on the phone "well of course you realise that these are only really reliable for the day they are issued". So why b...y have them then!!!!! Nikki Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gezabel Posted May 7, 2005 Share Posted May 7, 2005 Hi All Interested to see the mention of renewing CRB's. I have an enhanced disclosure dated April 2004. I can't find and haven't heard anything about how long they are valid for. I thought it was a case of they applied to our current setting and if we changed jobs we would need to apply for a new one. With regard to costs, I have £70 in my head but not sure where from, just know that I didn't pay it Personally I don't know how reliable they are and am sort of a member of the 'only valid on the day they are issued' brigade. Since mine was issued I could have done something terrible, been charged, appeared in court etc and yet still have a 'clear' CRB, not sure it all makes much sense Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 7, 2005 Share Posted May 7, 2005 Dear Geraldine I had in my mind - 3 years similar to the first aid - or am I just thinking of first aid - its very early in the morning for me! - I am sure I have seen this somewhere as I have put down the dates for renewal in my diary and as I am not that organised wonder why I might have done this. As for £70 well I think I had better find out - as any profit we may make to reinvest in the group will have to be spent on the £1000 I may have to pay the CRB!!!!!! 6 staff and 9 committee members - help someone please who is in the know regarding this issue - it will have a major impact on lots of groups. Nikki Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gezabel Posted May 7, 2005 Share Posted May 7, 2005 Hi I have just looked at my CRB ( I have the first one they sent which had a spelling error on!) There is nothing anywhere about length of validity but there is a phone number for 'information' I have just rung it and the office is open on Saturdays from 10am-5pm so I will try again later and let you know what results. I have vague recollections of the '3yrs' being mentioned before and it certainly applies to my First Aid (thanks for the reminder, mine expires in OCtober!) but it clearly states 'valid for 3 years' on the First Aid Certificate. Be back later when I have phoned them! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gezabel Posted May 7, 2005 Share Posted May 7, 2005 Ooops! I was wrong with my £70 (Sorry!) Just found this on the CRB website How much does it cost to use the service? With effect from 1 April 2005 the following fees for Disclosures apply: Enhanced - £34 Standard - £29 Basic - not currently available Enhanced and Standard Disclosures are issued by the CRB free of charge to volunteers. Registration Fees: £300 for an organisation to become a Registered Body (this fee includes the cost of the Lead Countersignatory) £5.00 for each additional Countersignatory Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 7, 2005 Share Posted May 7, 2005 CRB open on a Saturday - why?- if it takes over ten weeks to process a form (or 18 months) surely opening on a Saturday won't make that much difference - but perhaps that's why they may charge £70. I hope they all work a five day week spread over six days and are not paid overtime and it is just because they want to offer a service! Nikki Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 7, 2005 Share Posted May 7, 2005 Well done for finding out the information Geraldiine - sounds better to me - I was beginning to panic a bit - all my committee members, who are volunteers get it free - next question is do we all have to have an enhanced or can some be standard - we currently all have enhanced but do you know what the standard is and how long they are valid? I will try and give them a ring when they open at 10.00 and post up here for everyone if noone answers in the meantiime Nikki Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gezabel Posted May 7, 2005 Share Posted May 7, 2005 OH! Just spoken to CRB information line and told that Disclosures are 'only valid on the date of issue!!!!!' The disclosure 'belongs' to the person it relates to (not to employers/settings) and how often they should be renewed is up to the organisation that requested it in the first place. I said I had an enhanced disclosure dated April 2004 and it states my postion in my setting and names the setting. I asked if and when I move jobs I presumed I needed a new one and he said NO!! If I change jobs and 'I am prepared' to show my new employer my disclosure and they are 'happy with it' there is no need for me to obtain a new one, even though it would technically show the wrong setting!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 7, 2005 Share Posted May 7, 2005 Oh dear! Reading your post Geraldine, I thought it was April Fools Day again To the folks at CRB "...you cannot be serious" (to quote a famous tennis player) Regards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gezabel Posted May 7, 2005 Share Posted May 7, 2005 I thought that too!! However, thinking about it from a different angle I think the whole purpose of CRBs is to ensure that only suitable people are employed to work with children. The checks carried out indicate that there is no past or 'current' ( current as in the day the checks are done!) reason no to employ someone. Once someone is employed then any document dated prior to their employment is absolutely no guarantee that they will 'continue' to be suitable to work with children, if you see what I mean!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 7, 2005 Share Posted May 7, 2005 Hello, I loooooovvvvvvveeeeeeeeeeeee this subject As far as I have been told by everyone, particularly my regional ofsted office in harlow has informed my when trying to update my dc2 checks to initiate the process for crb, they are portable between settings. there is no restrictions on the length of disclosure i.e not renewable after a set time, and as long as you have a letter confirming that the person is ok to work with children from ofsted, they are ok. Have the lady's name to confirm. Apparently, there are some downloads from the crb that tell you procedures. A booklet from ofsted called "Criminal records bureau - what you need to know" (HMI823) tells you about the whole process. in there it mentions if a staff member has an enhanced disclosure within 3 years there is no need to request a new one, original to be sent to ofsted to see. Another booklet is "what to do with crb forms" again from ofsted. CRb downloads that are useful - Mandatory do's and don'ts - ID checking process - Portability - Disclosure Access Category codes I have never seen a more farcicle system in all my life. the last check we have took best part of a year!!!!! love kizzy xx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 7, 2005 Share Posted May 7, 2005 I have always thought that it was a waste of time, money and resources, ( not necessarily all mine) to repeat a CRB if someone moved from one setting to another. The only time I would consider this important was if there was a time "gap" between working in the two settings. The only other reason to "repeat" a check is because Ofsted have to check each new member of staff as "suitable" They look at CRB checks, their own "complaints" database, plus a request to Social Services if the new employee is known to them ( ie: may of had their own child on the "at risk" register but does not have a conviction) I employed someone last year moving from another setting, with a few months gap, I contacted Ofsted and they were able to see on their records that she had a current CRB check ( however they said that their records showed they had not had a reply from the social services but not to worry, as they were so busy with CRB checks, the S.S. check wasn't a priority ) I've had 14 staff in 4 yrs and only ever received one " This employee is a suitable person" letter from Ofsted . Peggy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hali Posted May 7, 2005 Share Posted May 7, 2005 its all a joke..just like the big 'O' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 7, 2005 Share Posted May 7, 2005 I was asked by my leader to ensure that all staff had enhanced disclosures for my setting not other's that they were using as current, and when I duly got them to fill them in, I range ofsted to check progress, they said "oh we have ripped them up, as the employees have current ehnaced ones that are portable". Ok fine i said, and i asked how long they are valid.. " they stay on the system for 6 months at crb then are destroyed, so no trace. mmmmmmm kizzy xx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rea Posted May 7, 2005 Author Share Posted May 7, 2005 So, back to the question I originally posted...it appears that due to the time it takes to issue a CRB, the inconsistances over whether they are valid for a day, 6 months or 3 years, and the doubt over whether they can be used in different settings, it might appear they are no use and so long as the manager has one and she is on the ball with regard to staffs suitability, we can do without them for everybody else. I certainly agree that they arent worth the paper they're written on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 7, 2005 Share Posted May 7, 2005 What a mess it all is - wouldn't necessarily install confidence - of course we are all professionals but so are the people who work on getting into organisations with children, they can spend years and years gaining the confidence of an awful lot of people - so I think that it is not worth getting them renewed if we don't have to - we just have to ensure that our own policies and procedures protect us and our staff and the children and parents - that's the best we can do. I think we are probably less vunerable than many others because of our adult child ratio and most groups would never be left alone with the children. Still unsure about the time scale Kizzy made mention of 3 years too - Nikki Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue R Posted May 8, 2005 Share Posted May 8, 2005 Sorry, late here, but I changed settings twice within 12 months recently - all I had to do was write with CRB reference no. and date of issue. Sue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inge Posted May 8, 2005 Share Posted May 8, 2005 had staff move settings, all I did was ask if they could let me have the CRb and sent that to ofsted with DC2 (recorded delivery)within a week i had the letter saying staff was suitable and she had her CRB sent back to her home address. Must be a miracle.... As to needing CRb checks repeated, we have been told not necessary, in fact when Ofsted took over we enquired if staff already registered to work at the setting needed disclosures... told not necessary ... asked frequently since with same reply... hence i and 1 staff member have not had one done!!!!! As to commitee members... another story 7-10 every year, by the time it is sorted they have left!!! Ofsted have sent letters to some telling them how to apply and not others and have now said only 1 commitee member is suitable!!! one out of 8 aint bad!!! Inge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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