Crb Checks

[Guest]

Hi all

Please,please tell me we are not the only ones to do this?!

 

Do you hire new staff and then apply for CRB check?

 

Had a heated discussion with someone tonight. She was adamant that you could not take somoeone on unless they had a CRB for the setting (she works for council childrens residential).

 

I said this just was not feasible for OOSC and pre-schools given that some CRBs were taking 3 months to come through. We would have to shut whilst we wait! She was shocked at the thought we had staff who were with the children without CRB. I said they were never left alone with the children to which she replied that did not matter as you did not need to be alone to "groom". I said so what do we do while we wait...hire agency...too expensive for a charity and tho they are CRB thats not for setting either!!

I even said we take references and the fact that they have CRB from previous setting into account. She said CRBs have to be redone every 3 yrs ...i said good practice, OFSTED actually do not insist on this.I have got an awful feeling she may make a complaint.

 

Thing is for teachers it probably is possible to get CRB before they start given that they have to give a half term notice and the CRB are actually done by the county councils that employ them. For preschools etc we are given 4 weeks notice to which you would be very lucky to even recruit never mind get CRB check bac if you use a company to do your CRB checks.

 

So do you do as we do or do you wait until CRB check comes through?

[finleysmaid]

yes i completely agree ...we have just had one crb take 6 months obviously staff are never left alone with children and are not involved in intimate care but we have to employ like this -as you do.Aslo there is no limit on your crb...i have just checked this with TMG and they said we did not need to re-crb any of our staff and some of us have been there for 12 years!..i think there is conflicting information because of the stuff that came out about vetting

[HappyMaz]

So do you do as we do or do you wait until CRB check comes through?

We do as you do.

 

I can understand why the person you were talking to was outraged though. Recently our local children's centre employed a support worker (one who is never left alone with children, but who runs groups where parents or childminders are always present) and woud not let her start until her CRB has come through.

 

Clearly a Local Authority can support this policy in terms of paying agency staff to cover the periods when people are in post but don't have a CRB. I just couldn't afford to do this and so have to proceed in the way you describe until a CRB comes through.

[Guest]

Phew! Thanks guys for the quick responses..I can sleep tonight!

[Guest]

Yes, we do the same too.

 

I think with references in place, that is as much as we can possibly hope for. Otherwise as you say there would be huge gaps between staff and we'd be out of ratio or have to close. We can't ask for much more than a month's notice from outgoing staff, which only really gives us enough time to advertise and interview, not to CRB as well.

 

What is going on in the world, though, where the automatic assumption is that any potential early years practitioner is just waiting to pounce on unsuspecting children and 'groom' them? This is a crazy state of affairs and a complete over reaction to a couple of nasty cases. It leaves a really nasty taste in my mouth, to be honest, that she would think such a thing.

 

Anyway, the CRB is just a back up check to my mind. What really counts is good supervision, a close knit team of staff, high ratios, that kind of thing. She cannot view the CRB as an 'all systems go' check because it can never be that.

 

And of course we should never forget that the vast majority of child protection issues take place in the home.

[Guest]

You're doing what everyone else does Marley, no need to panic.

 

I must say that a friend of mine was told by a new employer that her old one was fine as it was within 3 years (even though from previous job) because the CRB company they use allow it

But she was also told that settings can now use a website to apply for CRB's, all done online and they come through quicker. Sorry, she didn't know the name, as I was intrigued to find out more!

[Guest jenpercy]

I believe that you can do it online with my company, but I didn't pursue it as I belive it is for multiple applications.

 

anyone remember the good old days when OFSTED did the checks and you could just ring them up and they wuold tell you whether someone was police checked. then they announced that as employers weren't informing them when staff changes occurred (or rather, they used to lose our notifications!!) employers would now be responsible for doing their own. Never could quite see the logic in that.

 

I am surprised to hear that the CRB Company is saying use old one - apart from anything else they must get paid for each new one they do!! But I would be surprised if the police notify the Compnay who last asked for a CRB up to 3 years ago if they have any new concerns.

 

We must always remember that the CRB only means that someone hasn't been caught yet (in a worse case scenario) and procedures should be in place for never allowing one to one alone etc.

 

Although despite being told that I should not pick up one child alone for a 5 minute car ride, I have also been told that it is not necessary for 2 people to change a nappy.

!!

 

Your

 

confused

[Pimms o'clock?]

I fully agree with what you and others have said Marley. I make it very clear that new staff are never allowed to work alone with children, they are not allowed to enter the bathroom and are "buddied" with another member of staff which continues as part of induction.

 

I do though use "Capita" for my CRB checks and - wait for it - have done an online check for a new staff member on Monday afternoon, told them to bring proof of identity with them on first day, and have been able to print off a completed CRB check form on Wednesday morning! Yes less than 2 (two) days later. So maybe some of you might be tempted to change to Capita.

 

BMG

[Guest]

Thanks for the reassurance everyone!

 

Our current chair of OOSC does the CRB checks the long way although I have told her about online. Im suppose to take over as chair April next year (well that the big plan!) and so I might see if I can take over doing CRBs and get capita to do them (currently use TMG at OOSC). Capita did my pre-school one and I seem to remember that was pretty quick.

 

I think this lady just got me to doubt myself a bit but with you lot doing the same thing I feel that I am now better prepared should she decide to question me further.

Thanks.

[Guest]

Scouting is now using e CRB. The last few I have put in have been back within a week.

 

Alwyn

[Guest]

Don't know if it's different rules for schools but when I started my teaching post and my CRB didn't turn up in time for the start of term (it was sent at the start of may and finally arrived at october half term!!) I was allowed to start because I had a current CRB that was under 12 months old but we had to clear this (not sure whether it was with the LEA or CRB) and if it hadn't turned up when it did my old one would have gone over 12 months and I wouldn't have been allowed back in school until it did arrive.

Ridiculous and a pain in the backside but I suppose it's necessary these days. I do like the sound of getting them online though. Why has this service not been available for years?!?!

[Guest]

Hi we get our checks done before staff start as we have been told to not do so would put committee in serious trouble if an incident was to occur. We have just registered with Capita bulk crb checking and we did a check on a staff member last week and it took 3 days to come through as completed and cleared. An excellent service and would highly recommend.

[JacquieL]

Just wondering if these are enhanced checks that are coming through after three days, and if they are I wonder what would happen if there was a disclosure of an investigation without charges? Would that take longer or would that be sent by post? Otherwise the e-check sounds like a good way of doing it.

[Guest jenpercy]

Just wondering if these are enhanced checks that are coming through after three days, and if they are I wonder what would happen if there was a disclosure of an investigation without charges? Would that take longer or would that be sent by post? Otherwise the e-check sounds like a good way of doing it.

 

how many checks do you need for bulk check?

[Pimms o'clock?]

Hi JacquieL and jenpercy

 

They are enhanced disclosures, I check and verifiy documents and enter details online. E-bulk is what Capita do with CRB I can do an individual check, nothing is in bulk. Definately the most efficient and rapid service I have ever used and if I can do it anyone can.

 

You are given a separate log in for staff to enter name, address, dob and basic details themselves and then you use another log in to verify documents. But I must say I find it easier to get staff to fill in the "old fashioned" paper form and enter those details followed by the verification, so I do both bits at the same time; that way I know it has been done!

 

Go for it.

 

BMG

[lynned55]

I have had two CRB's come through in the last week One was done via Ofsted & has taken since mid October to come through. the other was doen via TMG and sent off to them beg sept- came through end of last week. Both were enhanced checks

So what is bulk CRB checking then? Never in all the years and with the amount of checks I have instigated have I had one through in less then six weeks and then I would consider if fast if it was!! How on earth can you get them through in three days? Are these enhanced checks? if they are please tell me how to get them done so fast!

[SazzJ]

I have written confirmation that Ofsted accepted my previous CRB from my job as co-ordinator in one council for a role in a different LEA and I was sure i needed a new one

[Pimms o'clock?]

Lynned55

 

Use "Capita" as per previous posts in this thread, completed online on Monday afternoon and received on Wednesday afternoon.

 

BMG

[Guest]

Hi Capita Bulk is great - We have used them for a long time but they have recently set up the online service. All you do is give the applicant a ref number and they go in and log their details. Then we have to check their documents and then complete a different section to say we have seen this. It goes off and comes back within 3 days. Can somebody just confirm though that im right in thinking that only Managers need to be checked via Ofsted and that all other staff can be done by a company such as Capita.

[Guest jenpercy]

Yes that is correct. Apparently, the OFSTED check is private between OFSTED and the individual Manager. OFSTED refused to even let me know the number and date of the last one my Manager had. we had to move temporarily last September and when I was updating the staff records recently, I decided it would be best practice to include details of the latest check and not the 8 year old one, so I rang OFSTED ands asked just for the number and date - and they refused. She had to take the phone from them and answer security questions so that they would give her the number.

 

I queried this with an OFSTED Inspector who said that the CRB was the Manager's propety and she could show it to me if she wished - but I thought that we were not to rely on the individual's copy as the employer/OFSTED copy could have additional information.

 

Yours

 

Confused of colchester

[lynned55]

After reading this I think I may have to change the agency we use. I wonder why they l dont all use this method, as it is obviously so much faster. When I rang Ofsted on Monday to query a check I was told that it hadn't yet been thirty something days (cant remember the exact days) since they had sent off to CRB and they didn't/couldn't chase it until then. So I am still wondering if Capita can do it so super fast why cant Ofsted ?

[Guest]

Agree with everyone re using Capita's online system. It's great. I've had enhanced disclosures back in anything from 24 hours to a week (I think the week long one was because it was snowing in Sheffield where the Capita office is). It's such a relief not to be held up for 3 months. You can also track the process really easily online. Previously we would start someone under supervision and with a personal risk assessment.

[Guest]

We currently have 3, yes 3, CRB checks with TMG still waiting to get them back. One since start of sept! Fortunately only 1 is for permanent staff others are for bank staff. Does get tricky when also new manager has to wait for CRB from OFSTED. The never being alone with children until checked is fun when working out what staff stay together!!

I have made intitial enquiries for Capita online and going to try and persuade chair to let us use this with me being the registered person (I know yet more responsibility!). Mind you by then we should have all staff CRB and wont need to do anymore (hopefully!)