Transitional Summative Forms

[Guest]

No doubt this question has been asked before and I, as usual need an opinion on this........

 

I have filled in most of the transfer forms for the children we have leaving nursery and going to school(working together with the childs key worker to ensure we have summed up the child correctly) however one of the keyworkers at the setting wanted to do hers independently which I welcomed but, as manager said I needed to look at prior to giving to parents.......she has made a judgement of her children at the higher end of the EYFS in most areas - which I think it unrealistic.....tricky situation as I am questioning her judgement!

But generally I have never judged the child as reaching the ELG as their is still much evidence and development to be had in reception year.......to judge a child GREEN and ELG for most areas is indicating a child is a year ahead of their development....gifted and talented....I would definetly not agree with this for her particuar children and now feel I need to rewrite the forms....however as you can imagine I will have an unhappy keyworker on my hands! (who thinks she is the manager anyway-yes that old chestnut raising her head again! - to those who have read my posts before)

 

So I change it and talk to her about it.....I talk to her first and explain....or am I wrong to change it....do you think it is an ok judgement .......I would always go back instead of speeding a child through all of the criteria......she definetly does not have evidence to prove the judgement?

 

Thoughts please.......................................

[dreamgirl]

As a Nursery teacher in a primary school, when I used to get transfer records from previous day care settings that put the children in the old green stepping stone on entry in to Nursery, I am afraid I just had to disregard the assessments. They were much too high. Things have now improved due to borough moderation but if I were to get as child assessed as in the ELG or even as having 2 or 3 points on FSP, again I would disregard this a bit and do our own assessment. Definitely staff training needed here. For the sake of peace and hartmony, you could maybe blame it on the schools and say a more consistant assessment is needed, with very few children if any should be entering nursery working within the ELGs.

[Guest]

We have had a similar situation before. I went back to the member of staff and discussed with them what they had seen the child doing to make them think that they were achieving at this level. After the "discussion(!)" the assessment was nearer where I thought I should be!!

 

We find that some staff interpret the development matters very differently to others and have tried to do this discussion with as many as possible to ensure they are all thinking along the same lines. It also helps to not make one person feel singled out - although the old issue of time of course rears its ugly head!!

[Guest]

I'm in a similar situation and seem to have been with different staff over the years. I feel it is a bad reflection on our setting to send the transition reports off with incorrect information and I have used the excuse that we all have to agree on the details so we can stand up for the report if questioned so I try to get everyone to look at it if it is way above or below general expectations. I also use the argument that we want the schools to take us seriously because we know we are doing things right but they don't always believe us in our area sadly. All the staff have anecdotal evidence of something which has happened at one of our local schools which seems to go against everything we are told we must do, and I use this to remind them that our standards must be even higher than theirs if we are to be considered professional and be taken seriously.

[Guest]

We are doing our transistional reports on the computer and then I am asking everyone to send them to me for 'editing' mainly suggesting I would check for spelling mistakes etc. but I am also using that as an opportunity to question a judgement and say 'what evidence have you got for this or should we change it to that....."

 

I think if a child is going to be 5 in september and quite able then they could realistically be acheiving some of those high scores.

 

Shirel-what do you mean when you say a child is on 'green'?

[Guest]

Green in our forms means the age category 40-60 months....(blue 30-50 months)

[dottyp]

I went for a meeting with our main feeder schools reception teacher yesterday, armed with huge folders of obs, photo's, surrey learning journeys etc etc with a transition form on the front of each one! The reception teacher said they found the transition sheet the most valuable as being the most up to date, so all the highlighting and ob references etc were of no interest to her.

 

She also said that they do their own base line assessments during the first six weeks on every child and would only look back to the folder should she be concerned about anything specific that was identified!

 

I do ask keyworkers to complete their own key child transition sheets, whether qualified level 2/3 or unqualified. Some will ask for 'wording' to use or guidance, but most staff know their own key children far better than I do. I also think it is good to encouarge them to complete their own transition sheets as it helps them to reflect on the obs they have made over a time and have a better understanding of what an 'informative' observation is.

 

In light of a recent 'transition' cluster meeting within surrey county council our group will no longer use the pre-printed profiles as they are far too time consuming and used too much like a 'tick' list.

 

dottyp

[Guest]

Thank you for your replies....I have spoken to my colleague who was offended and said she thought I was wrong to not give the ELG to her key children.....I spoke to the teachers of the schools that the children were going to and they agreed that if the ELG is on the form they are more likely to disregard it and make their own judgements.....however they did value the comments and overal comments specifically that sums up the child in general.

 

I will have to hope the colleague simmers down as she said today that "a teacher does not know better than me" she really is adament that her judgement is valid - I observed two of her children today and I was assured that these children are not reaching these areas of development yet and so I feel ok about changing the judgement, I would hate to give a false impression of a childs stage of development.....the informal chats I have with the teachers always seem to cover it so much better anyway!

 

thanks again...

[HappyMaz]

Perhaps you need a discussion amongst the team about what the statements actually mean in practice, so that everyone has a clear idea of what they are actually looking for. The new profile handbook is extremely good for pointing practitioners in the right direction, and often when you look more closely at the guidance you can see whether the observations provide enough evidence to show that the child has achieved that point.

 

Maz

[Guest]

Thanks Maz.....now worrying that I dont have the new profile book?

[HappyMaz]

Thanks Maz.....now worrying that I dont have the new profile book?

You probably do Shirel - and not that new now that I think of it. Its kind of greeny blue...

 

You can download a copy here to see if you recognise it, and if you haven't seen it you can get a copy. I got mine from my LA so I don't know if it is one of those books you can't actually order a physical copy of.

 

Maz

[Guest]

phew ....panic over....yes I have it - good idea though and thanks for the advice I will do that meeting!

[Panders]

Hi Shirel, I certainly agree that you should be internally "moderating" the transition reports with ALL your staff - and I can't remember an instance when I have judged a child leaving our setting having achieved any of the ELG's which are printed in bold in the development matters section.

 

However, we do have some that I consider are working within the age band 40-60+ for certain elements of each of the six areas but not having achieved all of the development matters, and so I would be hoping to inform next settings that "this child should be having activities planned for this age group, what I would not not want however, is for the next setting to assume that the child had achieved the ELG because I was flagging up 40-60+.

Edited June 24, 2010 by Panders

[Guest]

As a Nursery teacher in a primary school, when I used to get transfer records from previous day care settings that put the children in the old green stepping stone on entry in to Nursery, I am afraid I just had to disregard the assessments. They were much too high. Things have now improved due to borough moderation but if I were to get as child assessed as in the ELG or even as having 2 or 3 points on FSP, again I would disregard this a bit and do our own assessment. Definitely staff training needed here. For the sake of peace and hartmony, you could maybe blame it on the schools and say a more consistant assessment is needed, with very few children if any should be entering nursery working within the ELGs.

 

I have a child moving to school in September who can read (well), writes her name and words which she sounds out using her knowledge of phonics, orders and writes numbers over 20, adds numbers together and is beginning to subtract and also is very aware of other children's needs and her own and is generally very able across the whole curriculum. She has achieved most of the ELG and I have evidence to back them all up. What should I do, mark her down? It upsets me slightly to know that the knowledge I have of a child could be disregarded when they move onto school. mrsW.

[Tigger]

The difficulty is schools are judges on our profile schools therefore we need to be absolkutely sure the score we are giving is correct and truely embedded not something that is seen once. That is why some schools may be cautious when using others judgements. We are rated outstanding and a concerns over profile scores could initiate an inspection. Certainly we would be moderated and be crawling with Early Years Advisors, Pre schools and Nurserys will not have their profile judgements critised in this way. Also schools need to show progression if the children come into school already reaching the ELG and then make little or no progress as this isn't truely embedded again it reflects on the school not the feeder pre school and Nursery. This possibly explains the reluctance of some schools or rather their headteachers for not using any other judgements other than ones they have made.

 

2 schools in our area which failed OFSTED/ dropped to satisfactory sacked their headteachers! It is more than just personal pride that can be affected by how children are graded.

 

S

[Bigsue]

I have a child moving to school in September who can read (well), writes her name and words which she sounds out using her knowledge of phonics, orders and writes numbers over 20, adds numbers together and is beginning to subtract and also is very aware of other children's needs and her own and is generally very able across the whole curriculum. She has achieved most of the ELG and I have evidence to back them all up. What should I do, mark her down? It upsets me slightly to know that the knowledge I have of a child could be disregarded when they move onto school. mrsW.

 

 

I am with you on this having been working closely with my feeder school and working on a Buddying Project I find it almost affensive that a reception class teacher would not value the work that pre-schools put in on these children's learning Journals

You would not know that your child could do all of these wonderful learning experiences if you had truely not planned and observed them while they were with you!!!

 

Because that what we do!!! in pre-schools sorry to sound cross but on starting this project that was the main goal us in pre-schools set out to achieve. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE start to value us there are some children out there that are clearly level 2 and 3 on entry to school as we have worked so hard with them

 

I wonder if they have a low starting score this them means schools take the credit for the much higher scores then recorded at the end of reception!!!

 

Shoot me down if you wish as I have just had the same discussion with my daughter (YR2 Teacher) re score for children moving into YR3 and she has the same issues, the next teacher doesn't want them coming in too high Would it be down to value added somewher!!!!

 

RANT OVER but area of concern for us working extremely hard in pre-schools!!

[Cait]

What should I do, mark her down? It upsets me slightly to know that the knowledge I have of a child could be disregarded when they move onto school. mrsW.

 

Could you get her new reception teacher to come and meet her at your setting and then she could see her in 'action' so to speak in an environment where she is comfortable