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Rea
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With me leaving in July, the committee are keen to get the job search underway. I had supposed that my deputy would take my role and the other qualified to take deputy. That left one trainee and one role to fill. The chair is adamant, that although all the committee are happy with the proposed moves (which they have already approached the staff with) all the positons should be advertised. In effect this means they will advertise and interview and still give the jobs to the staff, only taking on an assistant, and we already have one lined up. Why do we need to advertise when we know who the roles are going to? Any interviewees will be treated highly unfairly anyway.

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I think it's probably a legal requirement, equality etc... Besides, it's just possible this will turn up a better candidate!! May be what your committee have thought? My old playgroup always used to advertise, even though they had ideas, and my current setting also does, balancing outside applicants against internal possibilities, interviewing on the same basis. Sometimes they even make it harder for internals!!!

 

Sue :D

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Rea,

There was a great deal of consternation at our playgroup last year when the committee didn't advertise for the assistant's post. The rumblings went on for weeks and some parents threatened to take their children out of the group because of the bad feelings between certain parties. xD In the end we did advertise and one of the mums got the job, but not the original one. So that you avoid this I would encourage them to go through the proper channels, as you know what people can be like otherwise. :o

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It is a legal requirement to advertise the job internally giving everyone a fair chance... if no joy then post should be advertised externally.

 

From personal experience i feel it is imperative to interview any suitable candidate, i had a situation where i just offerred someone a job without advertising it, which gave them the impression that they were the 'bees knees', they felt they didn't need appraisal or review, 'they were fantastic'!!

 

Through an interview you can only hope that they will go that extra mile to prove themselves or maybe realise that actually they cannot do the job after all :o

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I get what you're all saying, but the committee approached the staff to do thye roles and then announced they will be advertising externnally, knowing they dont want anyone else. They really are unfair. Oh well 6 months to go :DxD:o

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In my experience external advertising seldom brings in many applicants.....

we had a job available for 3 months and no applicants at all so in the end I asked a parent who was good at helping if she was interested...

end result now 3 yrs later one member of staff qualified at level 3 and still very keen as she was asked to join us rather than have to apply for a job which she had very little confidence to do..

have now had 3 members of staff join this way... all now qualified to level 3....and wanting to stay...

 

we always advertise but no takers..

(after all who wants our rubbish wages when they get more on the till at tesco!!!!)

 

Inge

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  • 2 weeks later...

If I remember correctly I think it may be a legal requirement to advertise both internally and externally. I think you might be laying yourself open under the Discrimination and Equal Ops legislation if you do not - ACAS have a wealth of information on their internet site on this issue plus many other employment issues. If I have time I will check it out and post up the relevant sections.

Nikki

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  • 1 year later...

on the same note, can you help on this question

 

right,

 

im the leader of a committee run preschool, in village hall

im leaving at end of term in july

post has been advertised interally and external

my deputy doesnt want the position

my other level 3 staff does want the job and has applied

doesnt look like any interest from adverts

 

so my question, can committee just give her the job because she is the only one who applied?

 

i do not think she is sutible, she has no supervisory experience, qualified at old nneb but then did certificate in personal development- but she has no idea what im talking about when i mention things like "scaffolding" or discuss vygotsky or piaget etc.

she doesnt meet the person spec, but they say she can work towards it. she also has a real problem with children with "behaviour" problems, and cannot deal with these children, she says they are to much hard work and stress her out.

plus, not meaning to sound agest, she is 35, same as me, and she is sooooo dull, looks aout 45 at least, and kids arent that fond of her. she does do some great play and stuff but i think this is where she is best, dont hink she has leadership qualities.

 

2 of the other staff are not happy to work for her and i think they may resign over it. as she refuses to work afternoons, she has said she will close them and im getting the feeling that the committee will do what ever she says.

 

but then, if they dont give it to her, want other option is their, my deputy doesnt want it because of the paperwork.

 

i know im leaving and really shouldnt care, but ive been at this group for 10years now, leader for 3 years, but i feel im still responsible for the group and my staff, i havent left yet!!!!

but if the committee keep trying to tell me (level 4 degree qualified) how im ment to run the setting i may be tempted to leave earlier.

i just dont want to go before these last children go off to school.

 

so, should i just shut up and let them get on with it, or keep them on their toes for just a bit longer?

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I think that the committee should interview, these questions should be set ready for any applicants, and if no others apply, the "internal applicant" should still prove her worth. Refer the committee to the "suitable person" responsibility of the Standards. How can they prove that they have judged her suitable if she hasn't had an interview??. Also this is a time when the committee set the requirements of the post ie: hours to work, not her dictating to her employers ( very unprofessional on both sides).

 

If she does not "pass" the interview ( which from what you say, she shouldn't) then they should re-advertise. maybe give the deputy the position until the post is filled.

 

Yes, quote the standards requirements, keep at them until your very last day, it is what the children deserve and what your own principles stand for.

 

Wishing your days are not too long, keep at it I say. :o

 

Peggy

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The deputy at my old playgroup is unsuitable for the position and I told committee before I left. It started the year before when one deputy left and the 2 assistants applied for the post. I knew which one would be most suitable and so did the outgoing deputy. They were duley interviewed and both came across as suitable, but they were interviewed by committee members, basically untrained people. (I hope any committee members will forgive me but thats the bottom line) the job was given to the one I knew would be good at it, but the one who didnt get it caused so much of a bad atmosphere for the best part of 2 months, crying, sulking, working exactly what she was paid for, not joining in with the odd jobs etc, that the committee didnt want to upset her again so gave her the deputy post when I left despite knowing she was unsuitable. You talk about unproffessional Peggy, I'd say that takes the biscuit wouldnt you?

Anyway, nearly 12 months later they've had a good ofsted, accreditations in the bag and things are going well, but thats down to a good playleader with a good assistant who she can rely on, quite unfairly in my eyes, but it could have been worse, at one point the committee considered splitting pay with playleader, deputy and assistants on different rates, I talked them out of it purely because I knew that any assistant would be doing the deputy job. Chances are if your committee think likwise the assistant will get the job, hope something gets sorted. I know leaving a place you've spent years at in various roles can be like leaving your baby with a stranger :D

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  • 2 weeks later...

It is a good idea to have an external member on your interview panel, that isn't directly involved with the group.

My last job at Dorset EYs involved me doing this - it just makes the whole process fairer, and ensures that the correct procedures are followed - especially now that Ofsted are inspecting the Recruitment and Selection process.

Contact your the EYs dept of your local authority. They should have a Recruitment Officer who can offer support, or if not one of the Development Officers (called various names depending on which authority it is!).

 

Shelley

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  • 4 weeks later...

just a quick update on my position.

 

staff i mentioned has been given the job!!!

 

interview (only person applied by the way) took place during half term by a "select" group of 3 committee, the other committee knew nothing about the interview.

 

no external, just 3 non qualified non experience mothers made this huge decision. after all its the leaders post. ive no idea what questions were even asked.

 

we knew this was going to happen, job was only advertised in local village shop, one day in job centre then vanished and nowhere else.

 

i have nothing against the staff, its just the way the committee have gone about it. they havent taken a blind bit of notice of me since i told them i was leaving. im that fed up, i wont even stay till the end of term, its just making all the staff's morale at an all time low.

 

we are (staff & committee) meeting up this week to discuss things, ive not been invited by the way, but then one of my staff asked me to come to support the staff and to answer any questions because the committee dont know how things are ment to be done.

 

im sorry to keep moaning, but it really gets to me when things arent done properley or fairly.

 

but this new leader has NEVER worked at supervisory level, i just dont understand why she was even given the opportunity to apply.

 

they want me to teach her everything i know, - 10 years experience and degree level trained!! and im off the end of next week!!!!

 

oh well, she might be fantastic, i wont be there so i shouldnt care (but still do)

 

thanks for letting me get that off my chest!

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Oh Ruthie, I know how you feel, not being listened to when the best interests of others are at heart.

It is hard to 'let go' as well.

 

The only advice you need to give to the committee and the new supervisor is a list of publications, people ( ie: Area senco, Eyat etc) and government websites such as Ofsted, Surestart, DFES etc, then they can do their own research.

 

Possibly remind the committee that

1/ Ofsted will look to see if their recruitment procedures are practiced in line with their equal opportunities policy and that

 

2/ ofsted will have to be notified now of the new supervisor so that they can do a 'fit person' interview..

 

maybe give them a copy of the national Standards, the Every Child Matters framework and the BTTM & FSC documents as a leaving present, all nicely wrapped up in paper decorated by the children. xD:o

 

Peggy

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