Gun Play Amongst Boys

[Guest]

I agree - we wont stop it no, they will always want to play guns, especially if it is something they are allowed to watch at 3yrs old, or something they see in everyday life. But we are there to teach right from wrong... in Afganistan you are more likely to get blown up with bombs than get shot, shall we let them role play that as well? There are children in war torn countries who are child soldiers who probably have no idea what it is they are really doing, how can that be seen as a positive thing? There are all sorts of things that kids see in everyday life. Knife crime, you wouldn't advocate your 3 year olds acting out a knife stabbing would you? Killing people is WRONG! It's not just about the physical use of a pretend gun - if they want to play guns, make it so they are shooting tomatoes or using water pistols to splat the opposing team but I do not believe that we should be telling them that it is ok to pretend to shoot someone in order to kill someone dead which is usually what we see.

 

Again, not here to impugn other people's views, just voicing my own - don't want to offend anyone!

 

Tink! x

[Upsy Daisy]

Tina Bruce on play;

 

"Coping with life.

 

In their play, children face the difficulties of their lives. They deal with their feelings. They find ways of coping with situations or people that hurt their feelings or make them angry. They come to terms with their lives, or find ways of changing them as they experiment in their play with different ways of relating to people.

Childhood play helps children to learn that different people have different ideas. It helps them to get inside other people's heads, feelings and relationships."

 

Shouldn't we let them role play what they feel the need to role play?

Edited October 24, 2009 by Upsy Daisy

[Guest]

Tina Bruce on play;

 

"Coping with life.

 

In their play, children face the difficulties of their lives. They deal with their feelings. They find ways of coping with situations or people that hurt their feelings or make them angry. They come to terms with their lives, or find ways of changing them as they experiment in their play with different ways of relating to people.

Childhood play helps children to learn that different people have different ideas. It helps them to get inside other people's heads, feelings and relationships."

 

Shouldn't we let them role play what they feel the need to role play?

[Guest]

I too am always worried when I see boys starting to make guns out of lego and other construction materials in my school. Again drug use and violence are not uncommon in the area I work in and several of the children have close relatives who are in prison. This thread has made me think though, what is so bad about it? These boys are 5 years old and watch Power Rangers and other similar programs where 'gun type' weapons are often used to kill baddies. What's so wrong about that? When children role play guns they usually use them to kill baddies as well, were they using them to kill just anybody (eg. someone not in the RP or not RPing a 'baddie') I would be more concerned but they see it on children's programs so why not let them act it out? They are well aware what is and is not real, even when they are 3 and 4 and I think just saying "guns are bad we don't play with them here" makes them more mysterious and more attractive, especially to some children and could also be confusing, especially given some children's view of what a gun actually is.

 

Most children who RP gun play I've noticed do not in any sense construct 'real' guns. Most guns that I've seen children create are fantastical inventions with lasers and bobbly bits and goodness knows what else. They're generally RPing a Power Rangers type gun, which looks nothing like our adult view of guns and does not behave at all in the same way. In which case is this play really and truely gun play as we might see it from an adult perspective?

 

Also I now think back seriously to my own (and my brother's) childhood. Did we play gun games? Certainly. Did we ever think it was acceptable to pick up a real gun and shoot someone? No way! Were we traumatised in any way? No, certainly not, and neither have either of us grown up into violent human beings who think it's acceptable to own and carry a gun.

 

Just a few thoughts that this thread has made me consider!

[Guest]

Shouldn't we let them role play what they feel the need to role play?

 

Acting out how they feel yes of course, and we should be there to help them understand those feelings and talk to them about them but it doesn't mean that we should let them act out the wrong things that they see adults do. We should be teaching them (for example) "Yes Jonny, you are allowed to watch these films at home where people shoot others and kill them but killing is wrong and it is not something that i want you to grow up thinking is right"

 

Tina Bruce also says that children need to be physically, mentally, morally and spiritually healthy. Is it not our obligation to provide a safe, secure and happy environment which encourages children to co-operate with others in play situations and promotes positive behaviour?

 

Tink! x

[Guest]

Also I now think back seriously to my own (and my brother's) childhood. Did we play gun games? Certainly. Did we ever think it was acceptable to pick up a real gun and shoot someone? No way! Were we traumatised in any way? No, certainly not, and neither have either of us grown up into violent human beings who think it's acceptable to own and carry a gun.

 

There are some children, especially those who grow up in areas where this is everyday life, who will very possibly think it is ok to own and shoot a gun if they see it happening around them and then are allowed to continue this in nursery. We are there to tell them actually no, this is not ok. These children are not being given moral guidance at home and so it is our duty to do that for them.

 

Power rangers shoot imaginary characters that are not human and are usually monsters or aliens - but usually fictional characters, not people, and i am pretty sure they don't kill them (i may be wrong- Scooby Doo hands them over to the police doesn't he?!) But it really all boils down to trying to create positive role models and not promoting aggression and violence surely? Of course we can explore feelings of anger and frustration but turning it into a violent / agressive game that involves killing each other doesn't appeal to my teacher / parental role i'm afraid! i feel like i am not doing my job properly if i tell them it is ok to kill!

 

Tink! x

[Upsy Daisy]

Acting out how they feel yes of course, and we should be there to help them understand those feelings and talk to them about them but it doesn't mean that we should let them act out the wrong things that they see adults do. We should be teaching them (for example) "Yes Jonny, you are allowed to watch these films at home where people shoot others and kill them but killing is wrong and it is not something that i want you to grow up thinking is right"

 

Tina Bruce also says that children need to be physically, mentally, morally and spiritually healthy. Is it not our obligation to provide a safe, secure and happy environment which encourages children to co-operate with others in play situations and promotes positive behaviour?

 

Tink! x

I guess where we differ is that I don't see children role playing as them believing something is right. My feeling is that they are exploring issues through their play and learning about the situations they experience. They can use this play along with the moral guidance, knowledge and skills we and the other adults around them are providing on a daily basis to come to their own conclusions and make some sense of what they experience in the wider world.

 

I think a safe, secure, happy environment is one in which they can play in a way which meets their needs and helps them to make sense of the world they experience. If the role play turned into unacceptable behaviour I would intervene as I would in any other sort of play but, as others have said, it can often be high quality, cooperative play which promotes many areas of learning and development.

 

Perhaps we should just agree to differ and know that we each have the best interests of the children in our care at heart?

[Guest]

I agree - and role playing what they experience is fine, but i deem killing people as unacceptable behaviour which is why i intervene. We can play soldiers and pirates to encourage high quality co-operative play without 'killing' anyone else. If baddies are involved then create a role for the police man and capture them, hand them over. I'm curious to know, would you allow a child to act out a stabbing? Or rape? Or drug use? Or domestic violence?

 

Oh and about the agreeing to disagree, i had already decided that after post 2 when i realised my views are very different from everyone else is seems! Hey ho!

 

Tink! x

[Guest]

p.s. Power Rangers don't use guns - its all martial arts

[Sharky]

Hi,

 

Our first born was never going to be fed sweets or allowed to play with guns. Friends let their children eat sweets so, within reason, our boy had sweets too so as not to be the odd one out. As for guns, he used a stick, then this was banned so he used his fingers! I gave him a water pistol and pretended it was a sci fi ray gun. He is now 25, totally non-violent, slim and a bit of a Trekkie! Our second son played with more realistic toy guns, and also had a pram and a doll, and he is now an adult, who loves animals, children, his girlfriend and wouldn't dream of shooting anyone. Boys need to play with guns but in an environment where the adults provide guidelines and limits. Children in our setting are allowed to play with guns but with the undertstanding that if anyone doesn't like it, they stop, and they are pretty good about that. As for pirates, they are violent and their use of swords and knives are just as relevant to us in this area as guns. We are located in a farming area where guns are the norm for pest control and even very young children go out shooting game with their parents, and we also border on a city where we have knifings on a more regular basis than shootings.

 

Basically, I feel if you try to stop gun and sword play children find it even more facinating and will try to find a way around it. Alow it, within limits, explain the rights and wrongs, and children are not so obsessed and they move on to other things.

 

Also, in some cases where a child has been exposed to gun or knife or any other crime or abuse, perhaps observing the role play develop a little, and only a little, so that you can step in and challenge/discuss the scenario might help that child and others see that this particular situation is not normal? And you could step in and help these children? How would you know if these chidlren were acting out violent scenarios through personal experience if they were "nipped in the bud" and no questions were asked? We always step if we feel things are getting out of hand, and ask the chilldren why someone is upset, how would they feel, etc.

 

Sharky

[Guest]

p.s. Power Rangers don't use guns - its all martial arts

 

 

Hmm I thought they did when they got into their big mechanical things (except they're lasers or blasters or something) but perhaps I'm thinking of something else, Transformers maybe? There's definitely children's programs out there when they use weird fantasy guns and whilst it could be argued said programs aren't for 3-5 year olds, they no doubt watch them anyway!

[Guest]

Hmm I thought they did when they got into their big mechanical things (except they're lasers or blasters or something) but perhaps I'm thinking of something else, Transformers maybe? There's definitely children's programs out there when they use weird fantasy guns and whilst it could be argued said programs aren't for 3-5 year olds, they no doubt watch them anyway!

 

Yeh possibly but they're not shooting and killing humans, theyre attacking or defending themselves from made up characters or robots or slime monsters blah blah...

 

My main point is that as a teacher i do not think i should be telling any of my children that it is ok to kill someone and therefore we should not pretend to do it. Whether it is with a gun or a sword or a knife. If they are acting out real scenarios then a policeman should come along, arrest them and confiscate the weapon - end of game!

 

Tink! x

[Guest]

Also, in some cases where a child has been exposed to gun or knife or any other crime or abuse, perhaps observing the role play develop a little, and only a little, so that you can step in and challenge/discuss the scenario might help that child and others see that this particular situation is not normal? And you could step in and help these children? How would you know if these chidlren were acting out violent scenarios through personal experience if they were "nipped in the bud" and no questions were asked?

 

A child acting out a scenario which is a true representation of something that has happened to them would of course be handled with sensitivity care and caution and would be more obvious than the boys running around killing each other with guns, knives, swords or whatever their preferred method of death is...

 

I really don't want to teach my 3year olds that killing is ok, pretend or not.

 

Tink! x

[Guest]

He is now 25, totally non-violent, slim and a bit of a Trekkie! Our second son played with more realistic toy guns, and also had a pram and a doll, and he is now an adult, who loves animals, children, his girlfriend and wouldn't dream of shooting anyone.

 

From stable homes where parents are giving their children moral guidance i have no doubt that they would be fine when they grow up, but some children don't have that and we do not know which children might turn out to be very impressionable adults and think that it is ok, because it does happen so we cant say "Yes Scott, you can play games where killing is involved but Jamie i am afraid you can't because i don't think you have enough moral guidance at home and so you might end up being violent as an adult"

 

I am not for one second suggesting that children stop playing cops and robber, power rangers, ben ten, army, soldiers, pirates but i do not think that in a nursery environment is it appropriate for 3 years olds to be going round 'killing' each other. There are ways of playing these games where killing is not part and parcel. So maybe i am not disagreeing with "Gun Play" in nursery, but "Killing".... guns that squirt slime, tomatoes, water whatever must be more positive than pretending to kill someone when you're 3?

 

Tink!

[lynned55]

I banned my boys from watching Power rangers for a while, after my eldest son really hurt my younger son by kicking him. he didn't mean to but was just copying what he had seen. They had guns when they were little, they shot each other, fought and always alwyas argued over who was going to be the baddie as that was who always got shot, this I felt was preferable to being kicked in the face by someone who thought they could do martial arts!They are now 21 & 24 and (even if I do say so myself) really lovely, polite, non violent young men. Likewise my 3 brothers who played nothing else but cowboys and indians are as well. I dont remember ever telling them that shooting people was wrong and I dont remember my parents ever telling me this but I know it and my sons know this as well.

Sorry I'm not trying to disagree with you (wel I suppose I am really) I do respect your views but I do wonder if we tend to over anylize childrens play, esp when it is something as emotive as gun play

[Guest]

I banned my boys from watching Power rangers for a while, after my eldest son really hurt my younger son by kicking him. he didn't mean to but was just copying what he had seen. They had guns when they were little, they shot each other, fought and always alwyas argued over who was going to be the baddie as that was who always got shot, this I felt was preferable to being kicked in the face by someone who thought they could do martial arts!They are now 21 & 24 and (even if I do say so myself) really lovely, polite, non violent young men. Likewise my 3 brothers who played nothing else but cowboys and indians are as well. I dont remember ever telling them that shooting people was wrong and I dont remember my parents ever telling me this but I know it and my sons know this as well.

Sorry I'm not trying to disagree with you (wel I suppose I am really) I do respect your views but I do wonder if we tend to over anylize childrens play, esp when it is something as emotive as gun play

 

I completely take on board what everyone is saying - i really do.

 

My main point is that as teachers, i feel we should not be advocating the act of killing. It is our job to teach right from wrong, especially where it is not taught at home which would include those children who see it as part of their everyday life, and therefore we should be saying that to kill someone is wrong. Maybe i am being too hard i don't know, i just feel like i shouldn't be saying its ok to kill someone, even if you're just pretending to do so. Especially not when they are 3 anyway.

 

(oh and i wouldn't let them do martial arts on one another either! )

 

I know i am about the only one on this forum who thinks like this! Ha! But it has been an interesting debate and good to hear what others think as it has helped me formulate my opinions better, so thanks everyone!

 

Tink! x

[Deb]

Tinkalink - just wanted to thank you for starting such an interesting and informative topic and for your contribution to keeping the debate going. I think it can only be healthy for practitioners to reflect on their beliefs and this is what this topic has done and for me it was very timely. I'm going to copy it to my colleagues!

[Upsy Daisy]

Hear hear!

[Guest]

I agree too - it's very healthy to debate these things.

One thing that I do get frustrated with though is the belief that children always play in this way because of the influence of television. We all know that young children are influenced bywhat they see but I do believe there is something innate in children - and it is especially boys - to want to fight or engage in battle. As I said before I looked after a child who's family didn't even own a T.V, and my own son (who watched nothing more adventurous than Dora the Explorer until he was three). I'd take them to thewoods and the first thing they would do would be to grab a stick and start bashing them together. I think it's a very primeval urge in young children, they're like little lion cubs wrestling. Gun's come in because any sort of machinery appeals to boys and it's an extension of those primeval urges to win a battle.

It's good to have my views challenged as it makes me reflect further on my beliefs and see if I need to alter them.

I, personally will continue to fall down dead when I get shot and hope that the support I give children in being kind and respectful of others will ensure someone gives me a magic potion to wake me up

[Guest]

Maybe me now working in the area i do has pressed me to think harder about my moral obligation and obviously my 3 year old coming home and talking about people being dead has shocked me a bit. But yeh, it has definitely been an interesting one and i will continue to advise my charges that killing is wrong, but perhaps i will allow them to use guns that squirt slime!

 

Tink! x

[Deb]

You have good point there dcn, there is an element of biological formating involved here. What else could explain the fact that the first thing my boys/men do when faced with a lake or the sea is throw a stone to see how many times they can make it skim - it's can only be their hunter gatherer instinct . Man must throw spear!

[Guest]

recently I have been looking at the rates of progress between boys and girls within our early years setting. My attention was drawn to gun play and weapons play having "Googled" improving boys learning. As with many EY practioners and making many observations boys will make guns out of anything and will soon call their "Gun" anything if caught by an adult!...a stickle brick can soon transform into a mobile phone from a gun...it was also interesting to see today, a little boy with a threading train useing it as a gun in the homecorner, noone was there, he was searching for "Baddies?"

 

Having been teaching for 20 years gun/weapon play goes against the grain a little....it has always been assumed that there is no weapons play....but observations on boys they will play well organised games until some adult leaps in and tells them...."No guns".......

 

In a bit of a dilema now as I can see the benifits of homing in on this play...child led(OHHH how the old terms come back!!!!) ...and yes boys are different to girls....at last we can say that!!!!!...now to back it up with research to persuade others that this is the way forward to raise standards in our boys.

 

I have just been reading many of the comments on gun play and weapon play, it has been very encouraging that boys can be boys again....however, what background research did others do to back up questions from parents. Also what pitfalls did other people go through and how did people direct the rough and tumble random fighting gun play into the 6 areas of learning. what discussions did staff have with the children about it?

 

would be very interested to hear comments or pass on links

 

chocolatebrownie

[Guest]

Hi Chocolate brownie

would definately recommend "Girls and Boys Come out to Play" Featherstone, and "We don't play guns here" Penny Holland.

I held a parents discussion evening (I'm a childminder so lucky in that I had no adverse staff to persuade) but accept it's very hard to change views if someone thinks that gun play is inherently violent and aggressive. I think role modelling works really well here, follow the children, document their learning and share with other staff and ask their opinions - I'm sure when presented with real life setting based evidence they will see how important it is

[Guest]

hi dcn

Thank you I will certainly have a look at the titles you gave me. I think it is worth looking at in detail and just letting the boys be boys to closely observe exactly what they do and how they take their play forward.

 

 

chocolatebrownie

[Guest]

You talk about boys making guns out of anything..... today we had a boy who made one out of cheese and crackers at snack time!!!!

[Guest]

nice one jules!!! all food for thought....

[rachelllps]

Again we have also had boys making guns out of stickle bricks and lot of other stuff a lot this term.

 

Our 'theme' has been favourites including favourite stories one of which has been 'We're going on a Bear Hunt' which has been very popular they have wanted to shoot the bear in our outdoor area (why??)

 

We have asked lots of questions, 'who are you shooting?', 'why?' 'who are you helping?', 'are you a superhero?' 'Don't superheros help people?' ''How do we help the bears sleep?' 'By being quiet - hibernating'

 

but they don't seem to know the answers

 

Rachel

[Guest]

Same here, we ask all the quesitions and try to turn it into a positive but they just want to kill not help people or be superheros they just want to kill! also saw a boy throw a granade today in the book corner nice!

[Guest]

Hi,

 

i have just been reading all of the interesting posts here and would appreciate it if members would take the time to complete my research questionnaire for my BA hons into boisterous play in the early years setting.

 

http://spreadsheets.google.com/viewform?fo...jSm9EU0Fub3c6MA

 

Regards

 

Caroline x