Rea Posted July 7, 2009 Posted July 7, 2009 (edited) As a parent I was shocked by this story. I would hate to be told that my way was wrong and be over ruled in this way. The poor nursery they were obviously trying to work with the parents. I think its quiet invasive of Ofsted, when they dont know the child, parent or setting. Nursery World aritcle Edited July 7, 2009 by Rea
Guest Posted July 7, 2009 Posted July 7, 2009 This reminds me of my nanny days. A fellow nanny was told not to let her charge sleep as the parents did not want him to wake through the night or early in the morning. THe result was my friend making this child walk around to avoid sleep and this often resulted in a VERY unhappy child and also some odd looks from members of the public who probably thought she was harming him and in a way she was. We decided that a little sleep wouldnt hurt and she wouldnt tell the parents. And actually on the days when she just couldnt keep him awake but did not tell the parents they never noticed!!
Beau Posted July 7, 2009 Posted July 7, 2009 I can't read the whole article so may have got the wrong end of the stick, but I don't see anything wrong with it. What you do at home with your children is your own business as a parent, unless a child is obviously being abused. However, as a setting who is being paid for looking after children, and one that is registered with OFSTED, there are certain things we have to abide by. This includes being mindful of the rights of the child and showing them respect. I have been told by parents to smack children who are naughty, but would never do so just because a parent thought this was their right and the best way to bring up their children. If the parents were unhappy with any of my policies or procedures they were free to go elsewhere.
Rea Posted July 7, 2009 Author Posted July 7, 2009 I understand that a setting has to abide by the welfare requirements but if the child doesnt sleep at night due to having an afternoon nap, the parents are going to be stressed at night and, if my own experinece is anything to go by, teetering on the edge of screaming at it. Where are Ofsted then, when you have a parent who is possibly on the brink of breaking all the parenting rules due to lack of their own sleep while they pace up and down at night? We can give advice and ideas on how to help the child sleep but my son wouldnt, never, before 11pm. I started feeling when I was in nurseries that we were taking over. We are all told how important parent relationships are and how we must all work together, but then Ofsted tell us to over-ride the parents views. I know as a parent I'd be fairly put out if a nursery over ruled me.
Guest Posted July 7, 2009 Posted July 7, 2009 When I'm asked (regularly!) by one parent to keep her son awake in the afternoons I offer to do my best BUT if he's tired enough to fall asleep I'll leave him 20 minutes and then try to gently rouse him, if he doesn't stir then he gaets another 20 minutes and so on.... It doesn't work but it keeps Mum happy! Perhaps if she were to take him home and give him a regular meal, bath and bed routine he wouldn't be falling asleep in the afternoons (and mornings some days!) But what do I know!? I'm only the "glorified babysitter!" Nona
Upsy Daisy Posted July 7, 2009 Posted July 7, 2009 I think the facts are a bit blurred in this case. The article starts by saying that they were waking a sleeping child and then in the next paragraph it says that they were distracting him from having a sleep. I would never agree to denying a tired child the opportunity to have a much needed sleep but is that what was happening? If it against the welfare requirements to wake a sleeping child I have been breaking them every afternoon for the last three years when I have a put a particular child down for a sleep after lunch and then woken him to do the school run. My first daughter slept very poorly at night despite me trying every trick in the book to help her settle and stay settled. She slept much worse at night if she was allowed to sleep for long periods in the day. I would have to agree with Rea that the welfare of the child may not be better met by having sleep deprived parents. I would be interested to know what research Ofsted have based their judgements on when making this decision. Has anyone looked into the effects of cutting children's daytime sleeps down to support their night time routines? Or is this a case of an Ofsted inspector's gut feeling differing from the practitioners'?
Guest jane707 Posted July 8, 2009 Posted July 8, 2009 A childminder friend of mine said that she would like Ofsted to give us a list of how we must not work with parents!! We must not follow their wishes about boys wearing girls clothes or dressing up with jewellery; We are now told we must let their children sleep, even if they don't want us to (which I agree with but in principle we are supposed to follow their wishes); We must provide healthy food and drink even is parents say it's ok for them to have crisps and chocolate; We must give them water through the day even when parents say please, it's affecting their night time routine, don't let them drink so much... What next Ofsted?
Guest Posted July 10, 2009 Posted July 10, 2009 i read this and was very shocked i think this is terrible. as i am currenlty planning my future with having children and could be potential parent this would really put me off placing my baby in a nusery and i would grealty consider giving up work to look atfer my baby if i knew ofsted are encoruaging this and not recomending them to lsiten to parents views.
Guest Posted July 10, 2009 Posted July 10, 2009 Can anybody copy the article onto here as im not a member of nursery world and i can't read this
Inge Posted July 10, 2009 Posted July 10, 2009 Can anybody copy the article onto here as im not a member of nursery world and i can't read this I was able to join as a free member, cannot remember how now but it was easy.and read the article.. and as a parent I too had the child to keep up or nights were awful, reason being he had had a nap... no other reason to find.. and waking him from a short nap was even worse than keeping him up! Inge
Susan Posted July 11, 2009 Posted July 11, 2009 Unfortunately, we have had to remove the posted article as it infringes copyright.
JacquieL Posted July 11, 2009 Posted July 11, 2009 Interesting this one. It seems to me that if a child needs to go to sleep then the child should be able to. I know that it may mean the child sleeps later at night, but there is also a school of thought that says that a child who has a much needed short sleep in the day, sleeps better at night as they are not over tired. I have seen this to be true. Every child is different in their sleep patterns and I think the child's needs come first. For a few years this may mean interrupted sleep for the parents, but in the grand scheme of things this stage isn't for long. This was not such a problem when parents didn't work but surely meeting the child's needs should be paramount at such an early age. That is what bringing up children is about isn't it?
Guest Posted July 12, 2009 Posted July 12, 2009 I think its a question of balance. Its totally unreasonable for a parent to expect a child to be kept awake all day when they are little and sleepy (I've had experience of this in toddler rooms) but as a parent i was furious when they let my 1year old sleep until 5.50pm missing out on his tea at nursery. Its a hard one as they can't say that it's got to be personal judgement as people vary in opinions, but maybe nursery practitioners should be exercising their common sense in this matter.????
JacquieL Posted July 12, 2009 Posted July 12, 2009 Why can't they have a sleep time after lunch and get into a regular habit, and then be woken up gently after a reasonable time? After all if they were at home and mum had to pick another child up from school she would have to awaken a sleeping child. I agree common sense should prevail.
Guest Posted July 22, 2009 Posted July 22, 2009 I have looked into this before because many parents state that they do not want their child to have any sleep (even at 18 months). We comply as much as possible, but I won't have children falling asleep virtually standing up just to please a parent..... sorry but the child comes first with us. If you search the internet the is actually something published by the government about how much sleep children need. It was quite a useful tool. I did send a copy home to parents, but to not much effect - the same parents kept stating they wanted their children to have no sleep. Children are small for such a short time. I know it's hard when you work and don't get enough sleep, but I agree with another post, it is more down to a poor routine at home rather than the child not going to sleep. My other gripe with parents is those that want us to potty train their child but will insist on putting nappies on at evening and week-ends and any time they are not in nursery!!!!
Alison Posted July 22, 2009 Posted July 22, 2009 its frustrating that parents say one thing and ofsted say another and as trained and experienced professionals our knowledge and opinions comes last I personally would encourage an after lunch nap but not too long I can see both sides to this but at the end of the day who knows the child and their routine best Ofsted or parents?
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