Help! How Will They Achieve These?

[Guest]

hi all

we had a visit from our advisor on fri and we were tlking about some scale points she has said tht we should not give the point 'responds to vocab involved in additoin and subtraction in rhymes and games' or the point says number names in familiar contexts such as nursery rhymes' unless we hear children initiating and singing the rhymes by themselves i.e they begin to sing ten green bottles whilst playing in the homecorner. Last year i would have given these points if children had joined in with the number rhymes during song time etc... Not may of my children will sing number rhymes when they sing a song by themselves and so if i go along with this advice they are not going to achieve these points!!

 

WHAT DO YOU DO?

[Cait]

Although I'm Preschool I would take 'number names in familiar contexts such as nursery rhymes' to mean that it MIGHT be in a nursery rhyme, or they may just be playing and say - 'Ooh look, I've got 3 men in my train carriage' It does say "such as". So, trust your own judgement on this, if the children use numbers a lot in their play - not just a 'one off', then I'd say they are definately hitting this point. That's how I judge it anyway

[apple]

I'd take her advise with a pinch of salt Lola. While most scale points should be judged to be acheived while in self intiated play, there are just simpley times when this is not possible- whatever the point. I would continue to do what you have been doing and not to worry about what the adviser has told you.

[Marion]

I think there are a number of the PSRN scale points that involve vocabulary that very few children would achieve in independent activities. I have my moderation visit on the 2nd of Feb and they are looking at :~

Calculating

6 In practical activities and discussion, begins to use the vocabulary involved in adding and subtracting.

Shape, space and measures

9 Uses mathematical language to describe solid (3D) objects and flat (2D) shapes.

 

and others. I know none of my present class will achieve these in CIL activities but some can do it in structured work so I'm eagerly waiting to see what advice is offered.

[Guest]

i'd be grateful if you could let me know what they say marion.

Hope the visit goes well

[mundia]

Bear in mind that the first 3 points and very early ones, most children will use some number names in familiar contexts. Just because the example given 'such as number rhymes' is there doesn't mean it HAS to be that context. A child who comes into pre school beaming ''Im 4' because its their birthday is demonstrating this point as is the child who says 'look 2 apples'. I would therefore look through your observations and your knowledge of your children for this one.

 

 

If you havent seen it yet, have a look at the guidance, this gives clear examples for each scale point.

 

here

[Guest]

I agree Marion, I look forward to seeing what constructive and useful advice is offered! If they have a clue!

 

What 'they' don't realise / admit is that children come from a range of backgrounds including those where this sort of vocab is not always used/reinforced as a matter of course - so schools are trying to fill huge gaps. Let us know how you get on! Jenni.

[catma]

On one hand, she's technically right - the exemplars are all about independent outcomes which is also the primary aim of EYFSP. On the other hand the additional guidance says Joins in with which implies exactly that really - it doesn't say who initiates it!! If it happens as a result of sustained shared time does that make it less evidence of a child using appropriate vocab?? It could also be useful to look at the resourcing that might prompt the use of such langauge however and the types of inputs to develop the vocab and repertoire of songs. Find out from parents if they use that kind of language at home when playing - just as valid evidence.

 

(PS And I'm one of "them" and yes we do!!)

Cx