Qualification Panic

[Guest]

Well just thought I would let you all know that I emailed CWDC on Friday and Surprise, Surprise have heard nothing back as of yet.

I myself am feeling very deflated at the news and I feel this journey will never end. I hadn't intended to continue to EYPS but seems that there is little choice.

Like many of you, 15 years working with under 5's, 7 years managing a successfull pre school, 2 years studying for Foundation degree and nearly completed BA Hons in Early Years Studies and they want me to be classed as a level 3.

 

What is the point!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Net x

[Guest]

I have just emailed them too. At least we have each other to sound off too and support one another, I cannot believe how serious I feel about looking for a career change....I love working with children but this whole mishmash of standards has left me with little choice. (I AM NOT DOING THE EYP - it will have to be PGCE just to make sure I get a recognised qualification. QTS (although there is talk of teaching becoming a Masters status, that would be just my luck, adds another year on-I could of been a Vet or a Doctor by now)..but I cannot do that for a while as my children are too young to commit to the timescales of working whilst studying and I have put them through enough - when and if I choose this route I will leave early years - that was well thought out by the government wasn't it instead of encouraging a better qualified workforce I will leave it!

[Gezabel]

Geraldine why no EYP for you...if you don't mind me asking?

 

No of course I don't mind you asking

There are several reasons really!

 

One is that I would need to do either Maths GCSE or the equivalency test and I REALLY don't fancy either!

 

The second is that I am 53 now and know that even if I change jobs I will not be working with babies but I would need to gain baby experience and I really don't see the point!. It would involve other people's time ( a setting that might agree to take me!, my current colleagues, etc) and I would feel a bit of a fraud doing it all 'just for the sake of!' if you see what I mean.

 

But the real reason is that I fail to understand why the Early Years Workforce seems unique in being the only profession where, after minimal training/experience you can start at the top.

 

I have NOTHING against the principle of EYPS, in fact I support the idea of increasing the quality of the workforce and certainly do not mean to offend anyone who has achieved EYPS.

 

However, it's the route for those with an 'unrelated degree' and little experience that really upsets me. I really wish I could understand the Government's thinking behind this aspect but I can't.

 

In analogy terms I see it as a doctor fresh out of medical school and going straight to work as a surgeon - OK maybe slight exageration but you get my drift! (Hopefully!!)

[Cait]

I can definitely agree with you there! And how many professionals, qualified up to that level would be willing to be managed by a volunteer, amateur team on a committee!

 

The whole thing is very poorly conceived. EVERY other professional I have spoken to is horrified and agree that this is why we have no union!

[Guest]

Thanks Geraldine, I guess I wanted support for my own reasons for not doing it and they are the same as yours.......the inconvenience of not being at my setting, more study and the fact a neighbour has a lovely tourism and travel degree achieved in her early twenties and now has EYP after very little training (1 year doing level 3, short (?!) pathway-only one year at preschool, making that a total of two years experience and a very nice EYP? -

 

I KNOW it is not supposed to happen but it does, after all providers have money to burn to get people trained they are not sticking to guidelines they just need numbers, I think)

 

- making my own journey seem a little worthless......9 years of childminding, 7 years of preschool, Nvq 2, NVQ 3, Foundation Degree and now top to BA (Hons) plus countless other training over the years (Senco, First aid, child protection etc, etc and still I can't make the grade!

 

Having said all that I admire all the practitioners who have achieved EYP and pray that you are all recognised for your hard work.

Edited January 26, 2009 by Guest

[Guest]

I totally agree with how you are feeling shirel, i have nearly finished my degree and i'm now considering the BA (honors) but i just don't know what i'm going to achieve by doing it, don't get me wrong i know the knowledge i will gain will help my practice but i have been working in pre-schools for 16 years and 6 of those as manager, i already have NVQ 3 and 4. My wage is not going to change, i miss out on time at the pre-school, i'm struggling to do the paperwork, degree work and family life, i just don't know if its worth it, like you i don't have my mathes or English for the EYP's and just don't want to redo them....another member of staff had a degree from university, nothing to do with childcare and is doing the EYP's, she has no other qualification in childcare, i just don't understand how it can work like this... i also agree with what you said about having volunteers(committee) as your boss... madness...

[Guest]

Geraldine I agree with you. I'm of a similar age, in a similar situation. I've 20 years of experience in this sector. Before that I trained as a Speech and language Therapist - that qualification wouldn't do for early years [ it wasn't a degree, that's another story!] so I started again with my level 3,[paid for myself] then became an Assessor. Have encouraged teachers who were mothers returning to the workforce -they worked with us for a bit, returned to teaching, became very successful heads -then did my degree by distance learning before all of this started because I wanted our setting to be the best it could for the children & families [we did very well in our last OFSTED] I funded the degree myself apart from £450 from our LEA. Lo and behold, the degree isn't even listed. I've contacted CWDC who just sent me a copy of the email they sent to the university, to approach them about adding it, without even an acknowledgement. I don't think I shall work anywhere else. I am not prepared to do EYP and have told the management committee so. Enough is enough. I'll be in my 60s by 2015 but don't retire until I'm 64 and so many months. So - as Peggy said - will i be looking at constructive dismissal?

 

I would be happy to lead the setting through a period of transition when a younger person could take over. I would be happy to go before 2015, too. My husband may retire in 4 years or so. I don't see anyone keen to do it at the moment. Incidentally we have a staff member with QTS at present. Her work availability is limited because she has a young son with complex needs. I saw her as a potential successor, as I believe a good succession plan is part of good management. I do wonder, though, whether she would ever be able to put in enough hours and /or accept the [currently] low pay.

 

Won't the contractual issues also arise when they try to bring in Level 3 as the minimum?

 

I think there is either an underestimation of the issues, a hidden agenda, or plain ignorance. It's time a few people at the top woke up!

[beth1]

I read that peggy's using common sense again, shame the govenment can't do the same and see sence that not everyone will be EYPS.

 

Before christmas I wanted to do the long pathway EYPs with a full BA (hons) but over the last few weeks I have changed my mind yet again. Basicly I am having a bad time this year and am struggling to get motivated to finish the FDey course. Therefore I am planning on taking a year away from finishing my degree, but not stop studying. I will be doing my GCSE in English, Maths and hopefuly Science then carry on with a BEd (hons) in Primary Education.

 

I feel that the goal posts have moved just in the last 3 years, my leader at this point does not want to go and do the FDey and EYPs at this present time. So what will happen to the level 3 leaders who don't want to 'upskill' to degree level?

 

 

Beth

[Guest]

Just emailed my uni cohort and I am surprised as how many didn't know.

 

I went to work today and spent some of the day with a newly qualified level 3 who had little experience and little common sense. When I asked her why she chose childcare, her reply was - "Wasn't clever enough for nothin else".

She took 4 years to gain her level 3 but as with NVQ's you can't fail it as you keep submitting the work until its passed.

 

How can all our experience, training and qualifications be reclassified to level 3.

 

And how will this effect wages. Many of us, including myself, have gained a degree to improve wages, but if we are to be classified as level 3, surely that will be employers excuse to pay us level 3.

 

Net x

[purplewednesday1]

My situation is slightly different ... qualified teacher since 1991 ... have taught all ages from Reception through to Secondary Year 10. Masters in Education. Own, run work full time at Full Day-Care provision. Did EYP 2 years ago on validation pathway. Got cheesed off during assessment for EYP and asked mentor why it was all worth it (much as the previous posts on this thread) - was told I could study for 2 more years after EYP and then be a "Proper teacher" (Much like I was 18 years ago then ... I love progress me!!)

[Beau]

My situation is slightly different ... qualified teacher since 1991 ... have taught all ages from Reception through to Secondary Year 10. Masters in Education. Own, run work full time at Full Day-Care provision. Did EYP 2 years ago on validation pathway. Got cheesed off during assessment for EYP and asked mentor why it was all worth it (much as the previous posts on this thread) - was told I could study for 2 more years after EYP and then be a "Proper teacher" (Much like I was 18 years ago then ... I love progress me!!)

 

What a patronising comment! I do hope you put them straight.

[Guest]

purplewednesday in response to your thread :wacko: :rolleyes: :(

 

Ok I could be losing it now I have no control over no emotions about all this.....I went to work yesterday and discussed this with some other staff and basically got a bit of 'told you so' look from my team!! Nothing like feeling you have been made a fool off - hey, fancy putting myself through all this study and still have a dissertation and two modules to finish before I graduate - yippee!

 

Yet still I keep smiling and doing my job well and enjoying being with the children because I am a professional and I am good at what I do - just the government doesn't seem to agree.

[Guest]

Do you think a change of government would make a difference? Maybe we should be asking the other political parties?!

[Guest]

On reflection as i am a reflective person which studying has taught me.......this thread is so negative and I hate negativity although the situation is pretty dire, hey-ho I am going to be positive, finish my degree and yes I think consider other career moves - maybe it will be the start of something new, without sinking back to negativity it is a little sad that I may do this but feel I have to.

 

Keep smiling and studying everyone, I believe studying for me keeps my mind healthy and affects my whole self - xx

 

 

p.s I am trying not to be tooo angry about it all.

[Guest]

There have been some very valid, honest and probably painful feelings expressed here. Probably a lot which some of us have feeling but perhaps not felt able to express so openly and honestly. So well done to all of you.

`All I can add is that the studying you are doing is primarily for you and to extend your job satisfaction and personal growth. It was never presented as leading to a highly paid career - unfortunately. There have been winners and losers and I think we have probably all had to grit our teeth when supporting 'highly qualified' colleagues.

All I can add is that keep studying and keep working in early years for as long as it is fulfilling and satisfying. But also to recognise when the cost to you or your family becomes to high.

Not sure if I am being positive or negative!

[Guest]

Good for you, shirel. Ths studying will already be benefitting the children, whether or not you can see that when you're at work. There's no way that it won't have changed your practice for the better.

 

And who knows what else will open up for you in the future?

[Guest]

There have been some very valid, honest and probably painful feelings expressed here. Probably a lot which some of us have feeling but perhaps not felt able to express so openly and honestly. So well done to all of you.

`All I can add is that the studying you are doing is primarily for you and to extend your job satisfaction and personal growth. It was never presented as leading to a highly paid career - unfortunately. There have been winners and losers and I think we have probably all had to grit our teeth when supporting 'highly qualified' colleagues.

All I can add is that keep studying and keep working in early years for as long as it is fulfilling and satisfying. But also to recognise when the cost to you or your family becomes to high.

Not sure if I am being positive or negative!

 

 

A bit of both, but definately 'realistic'

 

Peggy

[Guest]

Just a different angle, have any of you heard about the governments latest brainwave, 16 yr olds employed on an apprenticeship basis in schools as TA's (or a very similar title), all they need to have to get the job is 3 GCSE's.

 

News article

 

I quite like the idea of 'good' teenagers who can 'relate' to the children etc etc but what I don't understand is that the governments educational aim for all school leavers, I thought was to gain at least 5 GCSE's, The maths doesn't add up for me somehow. Gain 3 GCSE, get a job assisting a teacher, educating our young children, but fail to meet government targets of 5 GCSE's on leaving school.

Maybe they are beginning to recognise that interaction with children doesn't necesseraly (spl) have to be on an academic level, but that's too much of a pipe dream, realistically they are just trying to promote apprenticeships as a successful idea, and hoping that the Teachers will 'engage' these 16 yr olds within an educational establishment.

 

Peggy

[Guest]

I am studying a Ba(hons) childhood and youth studies degree throuhg the OU, but that is not on there. I don't want to change my choice as I'm enjoying the variety I am learning about. However the majority of it is early years based, but according to the list it means nothing. So I will go where I am valued at the end.

[Guest]

I would email the CWDC...I have just had a reply because my qualification was not recognised on the list and they have said that they will chase it up and put it on .......of course they have to do that and I am pretty sure it won't be as easy as all that...no doubt a few more emails and phone calls etc etc - this profession has made me so cynical of the government

[Guest]

How have you got on breaking the news to your staff teams - I have just been mapping our qualifications and 3 of my assistants NVQ 2 register as not meeting the criteria.

 

I am gutted for them - they have all worked hard to get these, i took them on as unqualified mums and they have attended college and worked hard.

 

Also when do they count in our ratio's as being unqualified is it sep 2009 when the data base comes into force - or is 2012???.

 

As this is going to affect my qualification ratio - how can we inspire staff to start again. 2 of their qualifications are only two years old (I have contacted their college for advice!)

 

Am concerned that when I tell them, I won't have many staff wanting to stay

 

sorry bit of a aaghhh moment

[Cait]

What other profession would put up with this! Honestly, perhaps we should all be writing to our MPs. We are in a strong position as a body with - how many members today? If we were to all lobby with the same letter in a deluge, do you think someone just might take notice?

[Carol]

I am with you there Cait, we need to do something.

 

I have spent the last 15 years continually updating my qualifications and now I am in the last year of the Early Years Foundation Degree. I have staff who are qualified to level 3 but their qualifications are not on the CWDC list.

 

Carol

[HappyMaz]

How have you got on breaking the news to your staff teams

I guess it depends on what the advice is about making the qualification 'full and relevant' or whatever the terminology is. I imagine (but correct me if I'm wrong) that these qualifications will have been gained some time ago, in which case their skills and knowledge will need updating and refreshing anyway. They'll have been doing this by attending training workshops and from the support you've given them 'on the job', so it might not be as bad as it seems right now.

 

Your early years team should be able to offer you support to identify what your staff need to do, and to draw up an action plan showing how you're going to do it. They'll also be able to answer your question about ratios, I should hope.

 

I know its difficult, but in times of change it is important to make sure that the qualifications our staff have are fit for purpose, and properly recognise their skills and knowledge - not only in order to meet your setting's legal responsibilities, but also for their own self-esteem and career prospects.

 

Good luck!

 

Maz

[Cait]

I'm not saying that a well qualified workforce isn't what we should all be striving for, because it definitely is. What I'm saying is that the way it is being tackled is grossly unfair to those people who have spent an enormous amount of their own time and money studying for qualifications like FDEY and ADCE and are now being told that these don't cut the mustard. There are a lot of people out there who are running fantastic settings without even these qualifications and are achieving high accolades from Ofsted for their practice, and I think that this needs to come into the equation too.

Surely someone with YEARS of good quality experience and practice should rate higher than someone who has come to the job later, and gained an EYPS via their degree in something or other, who has no proven track record of actually running a setting?

I'm thinking that there must be a better way........ that's all

[Guest]

I'm not saying that a well qualified workforce isn't what we should all be striving for, because it definitely is. What I'm saying is that the way it is being tackled is grossly unfair to those people who have spent an enormous amount of their own time and money studying for qualifications like FDEY and ADCE and are now being told that these don't cut the mustard. There are a lot of people out there who are running fantastic settings without even these qualifications and are achieving high accolades from Ofsted for their practice, and I think that this needs to come into the equation too.

Surely someone with YEARS of good quality experience and practice should rate higher than someone who has come to the job later, and gained an EYPS via their degree in something or other, who has no proven track record of actually running a setting?

I'm thinking that there must be a better way........ that's all

 

 

just a quickie to say i totally agree!!!!