julie 12 Posted December 3, 2008 Share Posted December 3, 2008 Currently all Local Authorites are undergoing a review of the Nursery Grant funding arrangements, this will affect how much the PVI sector are paid per hour to deliver funded nursery education. I presume that different authorities have arrived a different rates, my local authority have suggested a rate of £2.23 per hour( we currently recieve £.3.60) for Private and Voluntary settings but over £6.00 per hour for maintained nurseries. Has anyone else heard anything yet? Julie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyMaz Posted December 3, 2008 Share Posted December 3, 2008 Ours is still working on it Julie! Decreasing your rate so drastically at a time when you need to pay to upskill your workforce seems a bit harsh. How has the news gone down with providers? Maz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 3, 2008 Share Posted December 3, 2008 In Leicestershire we get £3.47 per hour. I hope ours doesn't go down. How are we supposed to survive. Why will maintained nurseries get more, after all we all provide the same care. What do they offer differently to us, apart from the longer hours. Seems very unfair to me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyMaz Posted December 3, 2008 Share Posted December 3, 2008 Why will maintained nurseries get more, after all we all provide the same care. What do they offer differently to us, apart from the longer hours. Seems very unfair to me That's a good question, Brenda. Maintained settings are in for a big enough shock when they are funded on a 'per child on roll' basis rather than for the number of places they have. At a rough guess I'd say its to do with buildings, maintenance and the fact that they have to pay for qualified teaching staff amongst other issues. I'll wait with bated breath to see what happens... Maz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
julie 12 Posted December 3, 2008 Author Share Posted December 3, 2008 We are putting a letter together for providers, our network representative recieved the information yesterday. We are very unhappy about it and will challenge it. Once other authorities have been given their figure I would be very grateful if you could post what it is as this would be information to pass onto our LEA and untlimately Beverley Hughes who we feel should be involved at this point, as she stated: “ in 2008 the PVI sector can come of age and get the recognition that it deserves” “there is enough money in the system to deliver the free entitlement” “we need a better balance between the maintained and the PVI sector” “we are moving towards a position where the PVI sector will be able to hold it’s own regarding pay” “quality – we need to ensure a high standard in all sectors. We need to see the PVI sector as highly professional and progressive” “it is essential that we up-hold the position of PVI sectors in the childcare market in their area” We will not be able to sustain ourselves on £2.23 an hour let alone start improving quality Julie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyMaz Posted December 3, 2008 Share Posted December 3, 2008 We will not be able to sustain ourselves on £2.23 an hour let alone start improving quality Hear hear! You listening Bezza? Maz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cait Posted December 3, 2008 Share Posted December 3, 2008 This is scandalous! As you say, how can we be expected to pay our workforce properly! We have set our budget already with the other figures! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 3, 2008 Share Posted December 3, 2008 This is scandalous!As you say, how can we be expected to pay our workforce properly! We have set our budget already with the other figures! It's just what the government seem to want - the little people outing, (pre-schools) so that kids can go into schools earlier and earlier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 3, 2008 Share Posted December 3, 2008 I have just been selected to be the representative for the PVI sector on our local schools forum so I will also follow this with interest. I am hoping that our LA has not yet completed the survey to come to a decision on these figures as I am hoping to encourage all providers to provide information and give a true picture. I have seen on some LA websites that responses were very low from PVI providers which I don't think can have helped. I agree that it does seem as though the plan seems to be to get all children into school earlier and get rid of choice in the early years sector. I would be interested to hear from anyone else who represents their PVI settings on school forums as to exactly what happens as I am not sure what I have let myself in for. If you prefer please PM me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
julie 12 Posted December 3, 2008 Author Share Posted December 3, 2008 I think you are right about the PV providers not putting down the true cost of providing the childcare. All the hours spent at home doing records admin etc!! Also not many full daycare providers provided the information as I dont think they trust the Local Authority,thats why the survey figures are so low, but surely common sense would prevail ...if we are recieving £3.60 now, how on earth could we cope on less especially with the in increases in the minimum wage, holiday entitlement etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 3, 2008 Share Posted December 3, 2008 I totally agree with you. Just last week I was told I also needed to slice the meagre income again to provide an allowance for renewing resources. When I questioned how I could slice up next to nothing I got no response except the usual comment that the aim is to retain parental choice! Seemingly by pricing us out of the market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 3, 2008 Share Posted December 3, 2008 Hi everyone I'm on our Sub group Committee which is made up of representatives from nurseries and pre-schools. We have ben discussing the money and the Formula that our Borough will use to calculate the grants for us all. We will go over to being paid hourly in April. We have then split into work parties who are looking into the costs that we have. We have a staffing one that has come up with a standard wage structure that is actually very good. It has looked at us having a standard like teachers have depending on your job and qualification. We also have a premises work party that is looking at how we will calculate that part of the formula. At the moment it looks like we will have a set amount per square metre, that will be based on an amount that engineers would say it costs to upkeep and heat a building. We've looked also at SEN and again we will have a calculation based on the amount of SEN children and What their care is going to cost. We are quite pleased at the moment as it seems to be going well and our Borough is definetly listen to us at last. will let you all know how we progress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smiles Posted December 3, 2008 Share Posted December 3, 2008 We are just about keeping our head above water - we have lost two members of staff because of low pay , staff are feeling very fragile at the moment and morale is very low. I attended a meeting on completing the SEF Monday, more work but no extra pay. I fear we will have to close if NEG funding goes down. We currently get £9.02 for a session. smiles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 3, 2008 Share Posted December 3, 2008 Well I am not surprised that Stockport is yet again proving itself to be no friend of the private and voluntary sector. This has long been the case and I all the talk about us having a level playing field has been hot air and as always they have "consulted" and then gone off and done exactly as they please. Linda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bliss Posted December 3, 2008 Share Posted December 3, 2008 I have just been selected to be the representative for the PVI sector on our local schools forum so I will also follow this with interest. I am hoping that our LA has not yet completed the survey to come to a decision on these figures as I am hoping to encourage all providers to provide information and give a true picture. I have seen on some LA websites that responses were very low from PVI providers which I don't think can have helped. I agree that it does seem as though the plan seems to be to get all children into school earlier and get rid of choice in the early years sector. I would be interested to hear from anyone else who represents their PVI settings on school forums as to exactly what happens as I am not sure what I have let myself in for. If you prefer please PM me. Hi, Holly, I attended one of a number of meetings where a small group of representatives from various providers gave input which was collated with other groups' information. This covered costs, practice, hours, building, everything to do with running a setting. We then all attended a meeting where all the information was presented, lots of discussion, where we each learned of the implications of running the different types of settings. It became very obvious how difficult it was going to be to produce a formula to please everyone! The meeting was very interesting, everyone listened to each persons' views, and at least by being there you will feel your voice has been heard, and that you are doing all you can to look after your own setting. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alison Posted December 3, 2008 Share Posted December 3, 2008 £2.23 an hour!! thats well below the cost of things, even my meagre church hall setting with minimum wage and nominal rent couldnt survive with just that we get 7.86 a session I know as a pvi we dont submit our information because ours would suggest that settings can manage on peanuts like too many settings we run a chunk of our business on "good will" the extra hours staff put in, the resources they make and the donations of equipment they "scrounge" if PVI's could put a price on this then that would be a true figure of the cost of childcare Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 3, 2008 Share Posted December 3, 2008 I think that is what the problem has been Alison. When we were asked to complete forms to enable the LA carry out the review many playgroups and pre-schools either didn't do so or only put down what they actually spent and did not include all the "extras" such as planning at home and staying behind to finish things. Many groups don't pay staff for this time so don't bother to factor this extra money into their calculations. It doesn't give a true picture of what costs are. But, everybody needs to give these figures when giving information to their LA or the same will happen eleswhere as it is with us in Stockport. Why do they feel we can survive on less? If we weren't given an increase that would be bad enough but to actually be taking money away from us is beyond belief. Linda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
julie 12 Posted December 4, 2008 Author Share Posted December 4, 2008 Thanks for you replies everyone, the suggested funding is from September 2010, therefore as a network we have time to oppose it and hopefully change it. We have various meetings lined up with MPs and a government minister early in the new year. If any of you hear from your local authority what your proposed funding is from September 2010, please could you let me :1bknow (PM would be great) as I would like to use it as a comparison to Stockports. I feel a bit better today knowing that we have a little breathing space to get this issue resolved Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 5, 2008 Share Posted December 5, 2008 Have just received the cost analysis questionnaire and as a voluntary setting which runs with huge reliance on good will and unpaid work I am wondering if anyone in a similar position has accounted for this in their return? I am tempted to put a figure on all the work that is done in this way and account for it accordingly. Do you think this is wrong as the guidance we have received is vague to say the least? Also we have a very good relationship with our building management and they keep our costs down for us to help support us, but if the building was managed by anyone else I cannot see this continuing and our costs would rise massively. It is not beyond the realms of possibility that the building could be managed by someone else so again can I find a away to explain this in the return do you think? I don't want to lie but I don't think it takes into account the way voluntary setting run - a point I will make in a covering letter and again at the forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 7, 2008 Share Posted December 7, 2008 Hi holly35 You really need to account for all of your costs not just those you actually pay for at the moment. My staff are paid by the hour but work an hour extra each day over the two and a half hours we receive in funding. This needs to be taken into consideration as their wages work out more per hour. I think many settings are just submitting figures for what they are paying for and not what they need to be paid. That way you would not need to rely on good will and unpaid work-why should you? You work hard you should be paid a fair amount. I do not rely on good will etc., I am lucky. I pay my staff whenever they work. But because mine is a private business I am the one who loses out when times are lean. But I still put in a figure for myself for what I should be paid if I was a manager working for somebody else. I also increased the rent because I don't know if it will go up over the next two years so needed to factor that in. You will not be lying if you do this. As you say you could put in a covering letter or show two sets of figures-what your costs are at the moment and what you know your costs should be. Linda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cait Posted December 7, 2008 Share Posted December 7, 2008 I haven't had any questionnaire yet - am I the only one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 7, 2008 Share Posted December 7, 2008 I think it depends on the LA where you live but I am sure the process should have been started by now. I know in Stockport we filled out the survey earlier this year and some groups have been contacted individually to complete further information with the finance advisor from Surestart. Perhaps you need to contact your early years team to find out what is happening. Linda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 7, 2008 Share Posted December 7, 2008 Thank you for your input Linda. It was very reassuring. Just need to get everyone else to do this too now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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