The Whole Stupid Situation

[HappyMaz]

I guess we all have our own constraints don't we? I don't have a committee to worry about, but I can sympathise with your Parish-related problems, Lisa. Our Parish is generally supportive (one of the councillors is a parent who has just sent her second child to the nursery, so that helps). However they don't want their Village Hall to be seen as a nursery: so anything that tells visitors that children use the hall is a bit of a no-no. We had to get planning permission to put up a small playhouse which we use as our outdoor storage because our building is listed, and I am struggling to see how we're going to be able to improve our outdoor area when we can't put in any additional features or structures to help.

 

However we're blessed with a lovely caretaker who always rings me if she's not going in to clean on the one night the hall isn't used so we can leave everything set up - bliss! When the heating goes on the blink I can ring up and someone pops in to sort us out - and they have just given us permission to use a bit of rough ground next to our humble play house so maybe I can turn that into an oasis of outdoor exploration in an otherwise paving and shingle desert!

 

Maz

[Smiles]

We have had our fair share of problems with Committee members over the years but then again we have had some really good members - this week dispite having finished for the hoildays they will be meeting up three times for various reasons giving up there time freely to sort a few problems out for September.

 

We have the same problems with our Church Committee - storage is a nightmare with each hall user competing for storage space - I have suggested a meeeting all all users but too no avail - I have even volunteered to help clean/clear out the churches storage cupboard but no reponse either. Cleaning! Dont get me started! And other users use and abuse our equipment but other than clearing away every night i.e tables. chairs I really dont know the answer. But having said all that - we have five lovely display board, the Church Committee purchased some lovely Rainbow curtains - they go with our name and the hall is bright and airy, the Sunday school have started to display some lovely work - hopefully inspired by us and we have had some wonderful comments for other users including some staff from a neighbouring preschool and the children are lovely.

 

I thought originally with all our constraint it would be impossilbe to get outstanding but I have discoverd a preschool in our area which operates from a church hall that has outstanding in everything . Spurred on by this I am hoping they will let me visit and share ideas as to how I can work/aim for this.

 

 

smiles

[lmwhite]

We were inspected three years ago and received 3 oustanding's and 1 good. We were so pleased, as we do run out of a hall So def can be done , but I know a pre-school locally that is fantastic and runs out of a hall like ours and got pulled up on things that our inspector didn't even mention. So it does depend on the person you get on the day!

 

Lisa

[Guest]

There's very little to disagree with in this thread. I feel like saying 'hear, hear!'

 

Almost every time our local authority's newsletter advertising posts is released, there are jobs connected for early years. [he vast majority require QTs: I haven't seen EYP mentioned.] There seem to be so many people working in all the various departments now, but we are never given a list of who to contact for what--- I can't help but think that some of the money taken by these well-paid posts would be far better spent at ground level, in the settings that actually have contact with children! But that would be far too simple a solution.

 

Our authority actually issued us with a self-evaluation form[before the OFSTED one came out] - a lovely, glossy affair - that asked us to rate ourselves, among other things, with regard to how many extra curricular activities we put on for parents, like home visits, parents' evenings, workshops etc. How exactly are we meant to pay our staff for all this? As it is staff meetings are only partly paid for, and we do parents' evenings for no pay. And these people know the situation. You begin to feel exploited. I would go to great lengths for the children, and do, like many of you I guess from my own pocket. I don't like to feel I'm being exploited, though.

 

My only question is: do we have any confidence that anyone who can make a differerence is reading this? If so many people feel the same way, how is our voice to be heard?

[Guest]

Hi weightman,

That's a very good point you make. How do make sure someone who can make a difference takes notice and reads this? Trouble is I don't know the answer wish I did! I have written to my local MP about this though maybe others need to do the same. He said he shares some of my concerns and understands the situation I am in. He has also written to the Secratary of State on my behalf. I am waiting for a reply (it wasnt that long ago.) If everybody did the same then maybe they might listen. It was straight forward and I did it online I received a email back a few days later then a more formal letter after about a week.

em x

[Rea]

Ditto to all of the comments made so far.

I am on the committee of the playgroup I used to work at. I administer the waiting list and apply for the education grant. On July 10th (Thursday) the chair received the request for our estimated numbers for the autumn term (I got the letter on the 11th), they wanted the figures by July 16th.

When I phoned to say that didnt give us much time to check which children would be wanting a place I was told 'you know the estimate request is coming so you should be prepared for it'.

Well, no actually, as this role is new to me I didnt know it was coming, and even with my years at the playgroup behind me, the grant application process is still new to me, so how anyone with no experience would fair is beyond me. And yet committees come and go each year, good or bad they still have to learn the ropes.

I also see the governments long term aim as that of closing playgroups such as mine. We have no access to outoors, we cant display work, equipment cant be left out to continue a learning journey, we cant offer longer hours or charge more and so pay staff more. We are constricted in everything we do by the church hall committee, we had to beg to be allowed asmall fridge, we have to clean the loos every day because the wont pay a cleaner to come in more than once a week, and by other hall users who wont/cant find the broom and who see us as 'moms playing'.

The local school sees us as a group of moms too. Not good enough to run the pre-school in their grounds, so they asked the local surestart to set one up right next to us and no-one from the LEA objected on our behalf, in fact the name chosen for them by a lady from the LEA so closly matched ours that the PLA intervened to make them change it.

The present leader has just acheived her FD, all other staff are level 3, while the setting run by surestart has a level 3 leader, a level 2 and a trainee. But this is still deemed better than using staff from a well established group.

On my travels as supply I see so many people in so many setting, but any funding is always thrown at those who need it least.

A setting I used to go to has recently closed through lack of funds. The staff were dedicated, experienced, caring. It was one of my favourite places to work at. Every avenue was explored to keep them open but nothing was avaliable. Within the area they were the only charity run setting, there is also a private day nursery, a nursery attached to a college, and a surestart center.

I'm not knocking the surestart centres, although it could be read that way, it just seems to me that charity run settings have a great deal more to struggle with that those backed by government.

[Guest]

Well done Rea i agree with every word - I Manage a committee run pre-school in a church hall with no outside space and you have just sumed up our situation so well!!!!

[Guest]

I am going to start a new post in order to TRY to get our voice heard after advice from Peggy. Please come back tonight. I am on the focus group for CWDC for standards and management and they want our views.

[Rea]

I have visions of a room full of people who, after politley asking for views, soon learn the meaning of regret.

[Guest]

Maybe the government should have spent their millions improving the settings we already have instead of trying to replace us?

[Guest]

I am going to start a new post in order to TRY to get our voice heard after advice from Peggy. Please come back tonight. I am on the focus group for CWDC for standards and management and they want our views.

 

Please let me know when u have done this and what the post is called.

thanks

em x

[Guest]

Just waiting for advice from FSF.

[HappyMaz]

Just waiting for advice from FSF.

Have I missed something here? I thought your mention of starting a new post was referring to a post on here... Were you actually referring to a new job?

 

Perhaps you could explain in words of one syllable for the hard of thinking (me) today...

 

Maz

[HappyMaz]

Maybe the government should have spent their millions improving the settings we already have instead of trying to replace us?

Well a little bit of their millions is coming my way, and as denisse has said if it is wisely spent it can really help to transform a setting. I intend to spend the majority of mine on staff wages, and for CPD/training - working on the basis that caring, knowledgeable adults are more important than resources. More money won't make them more caring, but certainly the underpinning knowledge will make them more knowledgeable. £2,000 won't go a long way - but it is a start.

 

Maz

[Guest]

well, I'm going to have yet another rant! You guys have been Heaven sent to our little team!

 

 

I know teachers (granted not many) who still dont have a degree but who earn in excess of £30,000 granted after 10 years service BUT all early years settings are being asked to have a graduate on the team who could never hope of earning that sort of money because it just isn't there to pay them. Where is our pension & 13 weeks paid holiday? I love my job. I can clearly see that there is a whole band of us out there who need to support each other. Are we all in the P.L.A? Could we get together to make a change I wonder? You are so right. Something does have to be done.

 

Final rant.....I could go on all all night? Did you know that Nursery Nurse was the only profession NOT on the last census! What does it say about the profession we are in...not to mention the value we put on our children & those who care & educate them?!!

 

Lets DO something. What do you think? xx

 

P.S I am off to count sheep (I only manage to 5 & you can put that on my profile!) as it's gone 10 & even though I'm suposed to be on my 'olidays...I bet there are several of you who will respond tonight though! Good night, God bless you all. xx

[HappyMaz]

I bet there are several of you who will respond tonight though! Good night, God bless you all. xx

Well you know I can never resist a challenge like that!

 

When we did the 'getting to know you' thing on the first days of our degree (just this academic year) I was amazed at how many people on our course said "I teach year 1" or "I teach maths in secondary school" - until then I didn't realise you could teach in school without a degree (and therefore, I assumed without a teaching qualification). I know from when I did my adult ed teaching qualification that you need to get teaching practice, but these people weren't doing a few hours of 'practice' a week - they were responsible for planning and delivering the curriculum on a regular basis. On closer investigation, a lot of these people were actually Teaching Assistants who were teachers in all but name and pay grade - and some of them complained as loudly as you have about the inequity that is inherent in how education is structured and funded depending on the year group you are involved with. Clearly the grass is not always greener on the other side - as witnessed about a previous contributor to this thread whose name escapes me when she described the 'luxury' of having her own classroom. (just went back and checked - it was Sheranne2001)

 

I'm not a member of the PLA (even in the days when I worked for them I struggled to figure out why private groups were members - after all it is an organisation set up to support community-based pre-school educators and the families and children they work with). However I am thinking about joining again just to keep updated and informed about what is happening. I'm not sure if any PLA bigwigs are members of this Forum, but after 40 years of campaigning and singing our praises, I wonder what successes they would claim in raising awareness of the great job we do on so few resources, or in attracting more realistic funding to the PVI sector?

 

Nor am I a fan of unions or of orchestrated campaigns as such - largely because often issues are portrayed as 'black and white' when I recognise there are usually several shades of grey in any given argument. Every way I look at this whole 'stupid question' I seem to come back to Governent funding. We need more money - but where would I prefer this money to come from? There are so many deserving cases - how do you balance early education against the NHS drugs bill or care of the elderly? Is the nation as a whole prepared to pay higher taxes so that we can pay our early years workforce what they deserve?

 

So it seems the more I think about this issue the further away I get from coming to any conclusion about what we could or should do about it. I do know that if we harnessed only a fraction of the common sense, brain power and sheer commitment shown by people on this Forum we could probably solve our dilemma, remove child poverty and achieve lasting peace in the Middle East at a stroke. OK so that's a bit tongue in cheek, but I do have a sneaking suspicion that we know all the answers: we just need help to discover them (and obviously a commitment from our political masters to put them into practice).

 

I wonder how many parliamentary constituencies we represent here on the Forum? Perhaps a good start is for us to distil our thoughts on this whole mad position we find ourselves in, come up with some key questions for our main political parties (and especially for those Ministers with an interest in children, families and education) and enquire exactly how they can answer them?

 

Someone else must have some better ideas though...

 

Maz

Edited August 6, 2008 by HappyMaz

[Guest]

I know teachers (granted not many) who still dont have a degree but who earn in excess of £30,000 granted after 10 years service

Where is our pension & 13 weeks paid holiday?

 

 

I worked as an unqualified teacher for 3 years whilst I struggled to get a place on the GTP. There is a ceiling on UT salaries of around £23000 (unless in London where its higher)and most of us earn much less than that despite, in my case, being a full classroom teacher with all its responsibilities. (and having a degree, just not QTS). True we do get to contribute to teacher's pension, but teachers really dont actually get 13 weeks holiday, just because schools are closed then, I work through all of my half terms and usually half of my other holidays, as do many teachers. I often work 60 plus hours a week.

I agree that the graduate led early years work force needs to properly funded but please don't paint this rosy picture that teachers earn loads of money but don't do very much, it just isnt true.

[Guest]

I totally agree with all you said Maz. I earn £8200 a year... i manage a pre-school and i'm in the ratios during the day 8am till 4, and spend all my evenings and every weekend/school holiday doing the paperwork for no extra money... how many people would work in these situations apart from all of us dedicated people on the forum, we don't do the job for the money i do it for the children.

[Guest]

Well, I agree with all your ranting!! That is why after 7 years I have handed my notice in! I earn 5.5K a year running a setting which has 80 children and 11 staff (14 if you include the releif staff), I spend evenings and weekends on a mound of paperwork which is never ending and the support sytems are just not there!!!!

 

I love working with children and their families, but can no longer afford to work in this type of setting! I am not sure what to do next, but feel that I have worked really hard to gain first a level 3, then a level 4 but the higher up you go and the more qualified you are the more paperwork you get and less child interaction! I gained my qualifications to work with children not a computer!!

 

From a very dishearten JBxx

[Guest]

I worked as an unqualified teacher for 3 years whilst I struggled to get a place on the GTP. There is a ceiling on UT salaries of around £23000 (unless in London where its higher)and most of us earn much less than that despite, in my case, being a full classroom teacher with all its responsibilities. (and having a degree, just not QTS). True we do get to contribute to teacher's pension, but teachers really dont actually get 13 weeks holiday, just because schools are closed then, I work through all of my half terms and usually half of my other holidays, as do many teachers. I often work 60 plus hours a week.

I agree that the graduate led early years work force needs to properly funded but please don't paint this rosy picture that teachers earn loads of money but don't do very much, it just isnt true.

 

Hey there, please don't take any of this personally. I can see from your blog how hard you have worked to get to where you are but I come from a long line of teachers. I am a nursery nurse & proud of it. My issues isn't with the teaching profession but with the way government views what WE do & for so little. Teachers work incredidly hard & are suitably rewarded with pension schemes good holidays & excellent salaries which they deserve without doubt. Planning can be obtained on line, non contact time is set aside within the working day for planning & preparation, staff meeting time paid for, threshold payements, laptops ...I could go on & on. AND incidently, I'm talking about key stage 1 + up teaching NOT early years. There is a difference. We are already seeing a problem within schools where EY teachers are having to work an extra hour each day to accomodate the increase to 15 hour sessions per week. I wonder if the unions will allow that to happen when they get wind of the impact this change is going to have on their members. HOWEVER, we are not able to join the unions which teachers belong to & that just about says it all!!

 

Yes I am tired,. I've had to cope with the closeure of our setting a year ago, set up a new business, employ staff, adher to employment law regarding pay, contracts (which cost me £800 to my very lovely H.R company who did it cheap). We have to set up and break down a school every day, run parenting sessions, keep staff trained, protected, nurtured...anyone out there in a setting like ours know how low the self esteem gets of those who are paid peanuts for the hours they get paid for & nothing for those they dont......I'm sorry but I'm stinging a bit.

 

I am truley sorry Beebot if I offended you. It was not my intention. I would be hugely grateful if you & other teachers in this forum would support us & fight our corner as nobody else seems to understand our struggles. All we want is to have our voices heard, decent wages, (this might encourage men to join our profession - currently they can't afford to) & recognition for what we do. Please accept my apologies. xx

[Guest]

Hear Hear - I agree with everything you say - early years workers are not whingers but maybe it is about time.......

[Guest]

This is what is so lovely about this forum, so many like minded people.

 

I agree with everything said - I work from a Village Hall, get there at 7.30 to set up and put displays up as many of you have said, the community want to see !no children! in their hall after 4pm. Im in my second year of the FD and fitting it all in is incredibly hard let alone family committments

 

Ive been off for 2 weeks and spent every day attached to my dining table working, I dont mind, but no-one else understands, how on earth do they think all the stuff gets done on arrival in September to hear " did you have a great break" hmm No actually

[Guest]

Nanny McPhie thats exactly where i have been so far this holiday... doing paperwork ... the list seems endless.. i'm also doing year 2 of the degree .. haven't started on the reading we are suppose to be doing for this!!!!! It also drives me mad when people keep asking "Are you having a good break" .....one of my pre-school assistants keeps asking me this to.... just makes me want to scream... i asked her to do some laminating for me and was told " No i can't do that it's the holidays" AAAhhhh feel like screaming that its suppose to be my holiday as well just because i'm the manager of a committee run pre-school shouldn't mean its just me doing the paperwork... sorry to ramble on but it just makes my blood boil!!!!

[Smiles]

Same here - being doing one bit of paperwork or other - commitee run preschool . Trying to figure keyworker groups out and my head hurts its a nightmare. .... going in to do diaplays next week, have to prepare for 25+ new children etc etc....

smiles

[Guest]

Same here - being doing one bit of paperwork or other - commitee run preschool . Trying to figure keyworker groups out and my head hurts its a nightmare. .... going in to do diaplays next week, have to prepare for 25+ new children etc etc....

smiles

O.K take a deep breath.....in...out...in...out...now for a glass of red wine...oops sorry no, thats wishful thinking, even if I am supposed to be on holiday!

 

What can I do to help? I've used Family Group Leader systems for ages & love it. Honestly, its great. It's just that people have problems with change. So...back to the deeep brreaths...and...talk to me. What can I do to make it better? xx

[HappyMaz]

can I do to make it better? xx

Explain how your Family Group Leader system works, perhaps?

[Guest]

Explain how your Family Group Leader system works, perhaps?

 

OK all it means is that each member of staff has a small group of 4 - 8 children depending on their ages for ratios etc. Those children are then the responsibility of that adult in terms of observing, assessing, planning, evaluating & assisting them in moving on. Its that FGL whom the parent builds a relationship, discusses any problems & queries etc.

 

our time table (not at all in tablets of stone) goes something like this:

 

09.15 children arrive & go to their family group area.

children settle down & take part in a whole group registration where they answer their names in whispers when their name is shouted out/by tapping their heads if thats what the FGL does etc.

children share news & artifacts they have brought in with them

children self register by choosing their name cards and putting them behind their photograph on the 'whole setting board'

children return to their family group area

the FGL will talk the children through the experinces/activities they can engage in during the session

children choose and activity (this is the way we use Highscope) they wish to access by selecting a picture prompt. The FGL records the chosen activity in the register so that he (I wish)/she can monitor what areas each child likes to engage in, & the children go to their activity putting a further name card on the appropriate area/activity board.

 

(sorry I know this is a bit long winded) but during this time the FGL has made lots of post-it & mental obs of those in the group.

09.35 The children spend around 10 minutes (to start with shortenin/lengthing where/when nec) 'sticking with their chosen activity. The role of the adult is to remind & encourage the children to persevere with their choice.

 

09.45 Bell rings & children can change their activity if they wish but need to put away the things they have been playing with.

Children engage in free-flow play, accessing adult led activities/child initiated activities they choose.

10.10 Music indicates to the children the need to tidy up. Staff support them & encourage them to tidy up together.

 

10.25 Children prepare for & engage in snack-time (this is sometimes done as a 'whole setting' snack or as a FG activity & sometimes the children will join whichever group/table they like)

 

10.45 children go back to their FG's where they will have some sort of curriculum time.

 

11.15 children access music & movement/rhyme time/large play equipment activity etc whilst FGL's encourage children to work on their Learning Journey Books. This is the way we try to carry out their plenary session!

 

11.30 children return to their FG's for story & pre for home.

 

This does look a bit prescriptive but we do allow for spontinuity & often there are times when the whole structure goes out of the window. There's nothing quite like 'going with it' when it comes to the child initiated stuff! I hope this helps a bit. The structure allows the practitioner (FGL) to REALLY get to know the children in their groups.

 

Does that help? xx

[Guest]

Just thought I would let you know that i have been contacted by CWDC today to see how this can work (still waiting for reply Steve!!!!) and they will let me know within the next 15 ---------days.

I have spent the day assessing at levels 2/3 for the next generation of nursery nurses and childminders. what on earth does the future hold? Will there be jobs for them? What level of pay? I am going round nurseries and centres and they are all so quiet at the moment. Went to a CC today and counted 10 children and--------8 staff. How long will the government fund empty centres and huge wage bills.

will they ever stop and think that they created this mess in the first place. I cringe when i hear there should be no duplication of services as when i started back in 1999 there were no childrens centres just private, maintained, childminders and church/village hall playgroups and it was wonderful. According to the DCSF 2007 survey only 17% of CC are making a profit and that is with government funding!!!!! I just think that if Gordon Brown hadnt interfered after seeing StartSure in USA maybe we would not be in this mess with too many centres and not enough children to fill them.

well thats my rant for the week

[Smiles]

Yes a little. But my problem is 35 children on register - there abouts. Six staff members including myself - Leader for want of a better word. We take chidlren from2 upwards and lots of two year olds in September. Staff work from 1 to 5 shifts - see my problem. I had thought about having three groups of two staff so one covers if the other one not in. The children attend from 1 - 5 sessions. Any idea?

 

smiles

sorry if Ive hijacked this discussion

[HappyMaz]

when i started back in 1999 there were no childrens centres just private, maintained, childminders and church/village hall playgroups and it was wonderful.

Actually I would have to say I don't think life was always wonderful in the good old days. I remember when my daughter first went to nursery at 3 I found it hard to pay for her sessions - this was pre-funding - even though we were a relatively well-off family. I remember that for the setting ensuring fees were paid and that there was enough money in the coffers was a permanent headache - and years later I subsequently found out that the owner of the nursery had two sets of books and regularly had more children on the premises than she was supposed to have. I remember the annual 'inspection' was a visit from the local under 8s team - often less than vigorous and usually carried out on the basis of "well we know you're a good group so this won't take long". It was rare that staff were paid to go on training, or to attend staff meetings.

 

I'm not saying it was all bad: this is where I cut my teeth as a practitioner and what I learned here forms the basis of my philosophies today. Sometimes it does feel as if we're taking two steps forward but three steps back: Government funding means I can pay my rent as soon as it is due rather than waiting for parents to pay their fees. My staff are paid to attend training courses and staff meetings, and my LA has supported me to achieve the Degree that I never thought was possible. However we clearly have a long way to go: Govermnent funding doesn't match my hourly fees and there are real concerns about how we will achieve sustainability when the 15 hour flexible entitlement comes into force unless the basis on which we receive funding changes. Similarly how groups will continue to pay graduates and EYPS a realistic salary (let alone how to retain all those Level 3 practitioners who form the backbone of early education) is a continual source of speculation and debate.

 

Life is never black and white: we have things to celebrate even while we're bemoaning our lot in early years - and I for one certainly wouldn't want to go back to how things were completely.

 

Rant over.

 

Maz

 

PS: if anyone here was a member of a now-defunct under 8s team please don't be offended. I'm sure you were never less than thorough in your work!