Challenging situation with parent!

[Guest]

Have I got the most irritaitng parent or what?

 

I have got a father hwo despite my best efforts feels that his 2.5 year old daughter should be learning her times tables, because as she misses school intake by some months, her time with us should be used to "hothouse" her so she is ahead of the game when she gets to school.

I don't know if this is relevent but not only can she count properly, but her manners are awful, and she "winges" at every opportunity.

 

I have trie talking to her father, but he sees her as gifted, quite how we all fail to see!!!!

But he does insist that we formally teach her!!!!!

Luckily he works on oilrigs and does not see his daughter "playing" all day

 

 

 

What else can we do, we have given him loads of handouts, but all to no avail. We have tried pointing out that his daughter will not learn until she is ready, but he will insist that she is ready for reading and writing now.

 

 

HELP!!!!!!

Janet.

 

PS Do I win the prize for the most opinionated parent or what????

[Susan]

oh dear!!!

 

Grin & bear it and pleased hes not your father, I think.

Poor little girl!

 

You know that you are offering her important pre reading & writing experiences etc so tell him you are offering what he wants in an age appropriate way next time he asks. You can also tell him that childrens socialisation skills etc are important for future learning and that his daughter needs to be happy to succeed and allowing her to be 2 or 3 or 4 etc is the best way to acheive this. With the right foundations you now that she will succeed in school.

If he is right and she is as gifted as he thinks then she will do all these things without your more formal intervention.

If necessary I suppose you could tell him that for you to offer what he demands would cause you to fail your Ofsted inspection?

 

What is the mother like?

 

Good luck.

Its nearly the end of term!

[Beau]

It is always difficult when the parents views differ from the philosophy of the setting. And please don't get me started on the whole times tables issue either. This is the one thing that I remember from when my daughter (now 17) started school. All half the parents seemed to be bothered about was when their children were gong to start doing their tables. Getting back to the point Janet, I think you just have to stick to your guns and keep pointing out the wonderful things his daughter is learning. Learning is like building a house - if you don't get the foundations right the whole lot will come tumbling down in the future. Hence its called the foundation stage. And there is much more to a childs development than learning times tables.

 

I don't envy you. Good luck!

[Guest]

Are you sure she doesn't attend my nursery?

i have a few like this

including the parent whos wanted to know about amy reading and writing scheme for nursery!!!!!

Blame the wine for anu spelling msitaskes

[Gezabel]

Arrrrghhhhhh! "Times tables" the very name sent me reeling back to my schooldays. I went to a convent and can see the good and holy nun now in her habit standing infront of a welsh dresser in the classroom. Whenever she walked over and put her fist on top of the highest part of the dresser I knew what was coming . She hammered with her fist as we chanted "ones' two is two ..." and no relief when we got to "12 twos" she yelled AND which meant we did the darn thing backwards.

 

Are they still taught in school these days? My youngest is 21 and he certainly did but I am out of touch with children over 5!!

[catma]

God, parents like that should be put in our year 6 maths class and made to eat humble pie.They would never keep up with an oral mental starter session. Tables are taught...IN THE RIGHT PLACE!! which is through counting on in 2's and 10's in reception, starting at any number, expanding this to 5's and 3's through Y1 and so on. Show the parent the national numeracy folder. It's all there at age appropriate places. Then ask him if he's able to demonstrate the expanded method of solving multiplication problems that bridge the 100's yet.

 

You can also explain that chanting tables is not the way to understand the principles of multiplication, (is it the commutative laws, I forget), but that through working and PLAYING with numbers and understanding patterning they will develop a greater understanding of how they operate that supports their work in later stages.

 

Parrots are not renowned for their mathematical ability!!!

 

[Guest]

Oh yes

 

I have this smae problem with people who say "....is very advanced. He knows his numbers and his letters." How do i make them understand that its knwoing what to do with the information that is more important. I had chidlren in nursery who 'knew' all their alpphabets but could not 'hear the sounds' in words and i keep telling parents that being able to hear the initial sounds in words is an important step - same with being able to hear and match rhyming words.

 

a child who can actually count and make 1-1 correspondece is just as 'advanced' as one who can recognise numerals (but cannot count reliabley) But ry convincing pople!!!!!!

There I've had my say for the day

[Guest]

dear me

must start using the spell check

i have no excuse now

[hali]

Janet its not just you we all have them.. but as others have said stick to your guns

[Rea]

Hi, somebody once told me that in reply to parents who make silly comments such as' when will she write her name' or ' she wont hold a pencil' ...you know the sort, tell them how hold their child is in weeks. A three year old is 156 weeks old! Doesnt it make them seem much younger that way? And closer to babyhood and all the things that should go with it..like PLAY?!

[Rea]

.....BE CAREFUL THOUGH, THE FIRST PARENT I SAID IT TO WAS NOT AMUSED! OOPS

[Beau]

You're so right Rea, they are just babies.

[Guest]

Why are parents so obsessed with their child learning times tables? It doesn't make for a mathematician. I should know - I knew all my tables inside out and back to front by the age of seven but I was was terrible at maths! My youngest son(6) knew his alphabet before the age of 3 (I didn't teach him to) but he has special needs in language and understanding!!! Parents can be so competitive!!

 

Had to laugh Catma -Parrots are not renowned for their mathematical ability!!!

funny but very true.

 

mousebat

[Beau]

I never learnt my times tables and got 2 A levels in maths. Hence my great distaste for them. I used to hate teachers who would insist we should be able to recite them backwards and forwards. Understanding the concept is a much bigger and more important leap. Why would any teacher want to subject their pupils to such torture with the sure knowledge that they are turning their students off the subject for life? Parents may not know any better but teachers should.

 

Sorry!

[catma]

i'm the same. despite all the chanting I still have to think hard about tables if I want them. I was really put off maths and became so convinced I couldn't do it that even now I get panicked if we have to do something in INSET that involves mental stuff. During the introduction of the numeracy strategy our old advisory teacher got so used to my grimacing face when asked to count back in threes fom 101 that she just gave up!! (It might also have to do with being more visual in my learning styles) I've actually become more confident through relearning methods with KS2 at school!!!!

[Guest]

When I've had parents come in for parents evening ( I work in a pre-school and do not agree with parents evenings for three year olds but thats a different subject !! ) I have some worrying because their four year old cannot count to 10 or write their name. I explain that there is nothing to worry about and they will be in formal school for 11 years so let them play NOW !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I say that they learn so much through play and I think we put far too much pressure on young children nowadays.

If we expect too much now by the time they are nearing the end of their school life many of them will have 'burnt out'

I do think our job is to prepare them for school but only by teaching them social skills , how to sit still at story time etc etc.

If a child is keen to learn I would not discourage it but if they're happy playing then let them play !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Why do some parents and people in the government not see it this way ????????????????????????

[catma]

I agree. It's having strong social skills or the lack of them that really stand out when children start reception. Being able to take turns and share without adult intervention, to listen/sit for mat times, organise their own resources and talk with confidence to others can make such a difference to their confidence and success in classes with often very different adult child ratios to their previous settings. Those are the skills I tell parents about when we have meetings for new reception and they want to know what they can do to help their child!! (Oh, and not teaching them their name in CAPITALS!!!)

[Guest]

This is an interesting thread and one that reads differently if you have a 'professional hat' on, or your 'parent hat'.

 

We have all had our share of challenging situations with parents, and I can truly sympathise. There are a lot of practical suggestions here. A couple of others:

 

How about having a numeracy session for parents, where you show them how the experiences offered in the foundation stage are the building blocks for maths? Set out some impressive activities, and include a session with number songs etc. And make sure that the date works for this dad beforehand! If he sees you working for him and with him, it might allay some of his anxiety.

 

Copy off plans etc for parents and make the references to maths and literacy more explicit. It can be difficult for a parent to understand how 'play' activities relate clearly to maths and literacy skills. Give covering notes with explanations termly or half termly, to keep reinforcing the message.

 

Liaise with the school where this child will attend (and others if parents wish) and ask them to invite parents for a visit to learn more about the progression through the foundation stage and onto KS1 and KS2, so that parents can see the fs as a builidng block in the process.

 

However frustrating it can be, remember that it can be very tough to be a parent, especially these days when the press is bombarding people with messages abuot competition and meeting targets. It is also hard if all you recall is your own school days! As a parent myself, I look back on some of the (unspoken) judgements I made about parents and cringe!

 

Let's take an example (I'm not picking on anyone's post here, but someone mentioned capital letters. I'll make a big admission here. My three year old daughter writes in capital letters!! I was really worried about mentioning it to the preschool director where she will start in September. The director was very matter of fact about it, but probably raised her eyebrows inwardly! I know full well that she should be writing in lower case, but try telling that to an opinionated three year old, when you are her mother. Now, many parents just do not know that it is better to teach lower case for their children's names. They are justly very proud when their child masters their names in large wobbly capitals! Is it such a terrible thing? It can easily be unlearned/relearned, and the sense of accomplishment for a child learning something with a parent is enormous. A great boost in self esteem, which outweighs the 'mistake' of using capital letters a hundred fold!

 

As for times tables, I agree with the sentiments about them being drummed in and meaningless in many cases. But I do think that they can have their place at an age appropriate stage, if learned alongside all the other essential mathematical skills and concepts. We should not dismiss them out of hand because of our own memories of being taught badly. For example, I have seen older children rapping out their times tables to some great music, really enjoying the process, and then applying the knowledge to practical tasks. A long way from reciting for hours in my school days and not having a clue of the relevance! Maybe the school that you feed into can show this parent, and others, some children having fun with times tables, and this will reassure him.

 

I also feel that we need to be empathetic to parents who are proud of their children's accomplishments when they dont really understand the way that learning has to build on other foundations. Eg the parent who is proud of their child's ability to recognise numerals. Recognising numerals is an important step, and it doesnt matter if it comes before or after real understanding of number, in my opinion. As long as both concepts are grasped, if a parent manages to help their child recognise numerals, that's great! You can build on the rest in the setting, and help the parent with the next step by giving direction and encouragement. There is no one right way to learn, it does not have to be linear. And it is better to have a parent who teaches their child things in the 'wrong' order, than not at all. (Provided of course that the child is enjoying the 'lessons' at home and is gaining confidence and self esteem from doing so. A parent who is making a child stressed or anxious is another matter, and I'm not addressing that issue here)

 

We should also be mindful of the fact that some young children actually do grasp, for example, letter names and their relevance. There are children who do this who are not being hot-housed into one part of learning, the drive is coming from within. I speak now as a parent who has heard the tone of dismissal in the voices of preschool directors when I looked around many preschools for my daughter. My daughter, through her own motivation, does read, does spell and does write. She has done so since before she was three. She recognised letters at the age of one, and there is no holding her back. Nobody has hothoused her and in fact, if anything, we have held her back while trying to persuade her to do different things (mostly to no avail ).

 

It can be incredibly frustrating as a parent to hear yourself and your concerns dismissed by preschool staff, and to listen to the hundredth lecture about how number and letter recognition is not the whole picture. As a parent, you have valid views and concerns that you need to have heard. The preschool I chose in the end was the only one where I felt that the director really did listen to me and my views of what my child needs. (and I dont mention my background when I visit, as I want a real view of how parents are treated, not a select one).

 

I am not directing this post at anyone here. If anything, I am addressing it to myself as a young teacher years ago, when I dealt with challenging parents and had little concept of how it felt to be on the other side of the classroom door! But I am trying to throw out some food for thought. I do sympathise with how hard it is to deal with challenging parents, and I have some very strong memories myself of some who would make your hair curl. Most could be won around, but a few can be so set in their ways that all you can do is do your best to listen, be tactful, advise, and support the child.

 

Good luck!

 

Nicola

[Guest]

I think it's not just a case of education the children but educating the parents! I teach in a very affluent village near Henley and it's all about one upmanship with some parents. They are so bothered about Little Jonny staying ahead of little Bobby etc and the child being able to read fluenty or knowing masses of sight words. They don't realise social skills are just as important at this young age. These children tend to be the ones with little consideration towards others and have no respect or manners for anyone else. Sorry about the rant. One little boy punched a little girl in the face today (which required treatment) because she hadn't heard what he had said to her. I think I'm still boiling over inside over that

one!!! Some parents do see their children through rose coloured spectacles. They often tell me little Jonny is ready for the next set of sight words when they haven't a clue about the ones they already have! Pushing the child who doesn't have the abiltiy is damaging to the child. My mother-in-law was one of these pushy parents, and although my husband has done well, it has been in spite of his pushy parents and not because of them. My parents weren't too bothered about mine or my sisters' education and we both have post grad qualifications.

I am also a parent who was just like some of these parents. Luckily I realised early on that I was being an idiot and my eldest son (8) is doing extremely well

at school and I no longer worry if little Jonny is doing better than him. In his case he actually is doing better than the rest of his class anyway!

 

It will be interesting to see how many disgruntled parents I get next week after reports come out.

 

mousebat

[Guest]

"I think it's not just a case of education the children but educating the parents"

 

I think you hit the nail on the head. We need to be workign in partnership with parents, even the 'pushy ones' (as I'm sure I am going to be labelled in the future LOL). That means listening to them and also educating them about our point of view and how things might have changed in the foundation stage since they went to school!

 

It's a two-way street, and I also think it's natural for all parents to see their children through rose-coloured spectacles! We need to sometimes help them to calm down from all the media and cultural hype about 'standards' and to see their child's achievements clearly. It is difficult in this competitive world not to worry about your child. I know fully my children's strengths and weaknesses, and I know what they need to help them (mostly, anyway!) but that doesn't stop me from sometimes waking up at night and worrying about it!

 

Right now, I need to get back to my own three year old, who has just learned to talk in Turtle Language and is driving me nuts saying everything in this language that unfortunately as yet the rest of the family do not speak fluently. I think she's driving her daddy crazy and I need to go to try to translate.

[bubblejack]

After watching the new Dfee Foundation Stage Video with all the staff at my pre-school I decided to ask parents if they wanted to borrow it. I thought it was another way to make parents aware of our curriculum. Two parents have asked to borrow it this term. One parent thought it was very helpful.After the other parent watched it she told me that she wants me to prepare her child for school and has asked me to give her some homework. After going over all what the video showed about learning opportunities in pre-school and how the parent could continue them at home I could tell the parent wasn't convinced. The parent has now put a workbook in the folder that the children use to take their creations home in with a note asking me to set some homework in the book. I often ask the children to bring in different objects according to our theme but I am not about to set written homework for a 4 year old!!!! Maybe because parents feel under pressure for their children to do well they are not happy about them learning through play.I attended an "Emergent writing course" a few days ago and it was really good to hear the tutor say DO NOT FORCE CHILDREN TO WRITE BUT MAKE THE ACTIVITY MORE INTERESTING TO MAKE THEM WANT TO. ALSO HAVE LOTS OF GROSS MOTOR ACTIVITIES. Best news I'v heard in years I just need to convince parents now.

[Guest]

Best of luck convincing parents bubblejack - probably going to be an uphill task!!

 

My views were changed when my second son was diagnosed with special needs. He is very bright but doesn't have the understanding or the language to keep up with his peers. It was then I realised I should be content and happy knowing that he real loves school and that he is making wonderful progress at his own pace and level. I almost cried with joy when his teacher told me he had reached level one for speaking and listening in the national curriculum back in March. (He's in Y1). Parents need to have a realistic view of their children's ability because I feel that while they think they might be helping their child 'get ahead' they could actually be doing more harm than good.

 

Nicola - turtle talk sounds like great fun!

 

mousebat

 

p.s "I think it's not just a case of education the children but educating the parents"

should have said:

"I think it's not just a case of educating the children but educating the parents"

[Guest]

i have just spent the last term working in the reception class that my son also is in . i have to say that it has been such a relief to not be the worried parent feeling that someone is comparing my child against theirs or that my child isn`t reading yet etc .

instead i have felt safe inside the world of play and have watched my son develop and grow . he has learnt so much and is a happy LITTLE boy.

maddy.

[Guest]

Maddy, you raise a good point. If we can get parents involved in settings, often their worries disappear. I think this would be a good topic for a new thread - brainstorming ways to get parents involved!

 

Nicola

[Guest]

"Getting parents involved"......great idea in theory but doesn't always work though . At our school the Head runs several workshops for worried parents throughout the school year. Some are offered extra help for their children, especially in literacy, during Readers Workshop. Parents are encourgaged to come and help in class. I'm totally involved in my son's school as I work there. If other mum's want to waste their valuable time comparing their child to mine fine - me, I'm just bothered about my own child. Some parents still worry and compare their children with others - it's just human nature!

What a negative thought I hear you say - yep I'm a 'glass is half empty' kinda gal.

 

mousebat

[hali]

Ive just had a parent in today who handed in her childs notice in two months ago (as her child only played in our pre school so decided to send her off to proper nursery school) and today wanted her childs sessions back because of our excellent Ofsted report and because her child is soooooooo happy with us........

 

Unfortunatly had to tell her that i am now fully booked for september so she cant.

 

Oh dear what a shame

[Sue R]

 

Excellent!

 

Sue

[Guest]

mousebat your post made me giggle. i don`t think you sound like a glass half empty... i think it`s more i know what my child needs and his/her needs count. you have to be strong for that.

i am determined for my son to develop at his own pace, but i do find i have to tell myself not to worry. so are the parents who don`t see their children in their nursery/ school setting worrying even more? maybe as nicola said getting parents more involved. this might help as it offers a chance to see the learning that is constantly taking place.

this is easier said than done and there will always be the parents that want their child sat down learning to read , write etc and will not except that play is a way of learning. maddy.

[Guest]

Hi maddy

 

My post was in no way directed at you personally. It is nice to be able to see what you're child is doing in the Reception and hopefully not to worry too much. I'll let you into a secret - but don't tell anybody else - My son is at the same school in which I work in. I has certainly helped me not to worry about him and his progress. He has special needs and is statemented and it's nice to be able to talk to his teachers whenever I want.

 

mousebat

[Guest]

Maddy, I think you're right. The ideal is to have all parents working in full partnership with settings, involved in some way in the setting. This means that we have to be creative as practitioners to get them involved - some parents want to work in the classroom, others can't for family reasons, or don't feel comfortable doing so. There are lots of different ways to invite and encourage involvement. But that's all you can do, as people have to make their own decision whether or not to take up your invitation.

 

The old proverb, you can lead a horse to water.....

 

But I do think that we need to do everything we possibly can first, before dismissing any family or group as a lost cause. But sometimes we have to just accept that a parent does not want to, or cannot, be involved or see our point of view, and that our influence is limited. Sometimes what a parent wants does not match what we offer, and all we can do is keep the dialogue open and continue to try to work together within the parameters that are set for us. We can do so graciously. In the past, I have 'agreed to disagree' with parents, who have not removed their children from my care, and have almost all eventually, if grudgingly, agreed that maybe I had a point.

 

The bottom line is, I believe, that just about all parents want the best for their children. They know their child better than we as practitioners can ever hope to. Some of their interpretations of their child's abilities and needs may be different to ours, but that doesn't make the parent 'stupid' by any means. It is simply that they see things differently.

 

As I said earlier, in this current climate it is difficult for any parent to not worry about standards, levels, competition, etc. It is drummed into us from the media on a daily basis. It takes a great deal of confidence as a parent to be able to stand back and watch your child play and not give you 'evidence' of learning. After all, we are being told constantly that our child must perform and prove himself against national standards and against other children. It is natural then for parents to worry that their child measures up!