Photographs

[Guest]

Can anyone help? I am obviously taking photographs for evidence and have made a folder for each child in Nursery on the school computer. At the end of the year, I wanted to put the photos onto a CD and give one to each of the parents. I have been told this is fine by one manager, but another has said absolutely not- I could compormise children's safety as these photos could some how end up being circulated onto the internet. Anyone got any rules or regs they can direct me to read? All I want to do is give a lovely souvenir of the Nursery year! Thanks.

[Guest Wolfie]

I know Peggy used to do the same thing for the children at her nursery...hopefully she'll be along soon with some words of wisdom, or maybe you could PM her if you're in a hurry?

[hali]

as long as parents have signed a consent form to which and where you have used photos you will be fine xx

[Guest jane heald]

Have done a disc for parents but our head made all our parents sign a permission form to say they were happy for their child's photo to go on the disc.

[Guest]

Thanks all. Nice to know I'm not the only person spending my Friday night on the forum!

[HappyMaz]

Thanks all. Nice to know I'm not the only person spending my Friday night on the forum!

Where else would we be?

 

I think if you make it clear to parents what they are giving permission for - ie for photographs of their children to end up on another child's disk, you'll be fine. With the best will in the world you can't always prevent one child appearing in the background of a photo which another child is the main focus of.

 

However, if a parent is uncomfortable with images of their child being given to another family (and this might be a natural concern for some parents) then you can take measures to prevent their faces being shown - such as blurring etc with a photo editor.

 

Mind you - did you see the publicity about the school who put smiley faces on the photographs of their children for their website - and were condemned by the NSPCC for going too far?

 

Interesting issues here - will be interested to read what other people think.

 

Maz

[Guest]

I would ask the children, as well as the parents if they were happy to have their photos printed on disc.

Tissue

[Guest]

We have one child who for complicated legal reasons has not to have his photo taken.This is to totally ensure his personal safety.Makes it difficult but so far we have managed it.

 

We had a student last year who asked permission to take photo's for her course work.That seemed reasonable so we allowed it.We were then informed by a TA who daughter was the students friend that she had published the photo's on her My Space page as part of her diary.One was of a Down's child she'd taken a shine to with his name and some uneducated comments!.Luckily the TA was able to contact the student and get the photo's removed within a few hours but it taught us some lessons.

 

Never assume that students understand the 'rules' about using images taken in nursery.Guidelines for use of photo's have now been added to our welcome pack for students and we have introduced a contract to sign that they understand images taken are for course work evidence only.We have added a section to the photo policy for parents that at times students may wish to take photos as evidence as part of their course work.

 

I'd love to post photos of some of the activities in my setting in some threads but think this forum is too open on the internet but I've seen others doing it.

[Guest]

Biccy

 

Very sound advice and words of 'warning' - I will certainly be adding information regarding use of photos to our welcome pack which is currently 'under construction'. Incidentally - I would welcome comments on producing a welcome pack but I wont hijack this post.

 

Also think tissue's idea of asking the children is excellent also - thanks.

 

You know, i love this site so much, the way that people willingly share such great ideas, tips and notes of warning with the sole intention of improving childcare across the board. I think 'Whistleblower' should cast their eye over this Forum to see how passionate and dedicated many, many childcare practitioners actually are.

 

thanks.

Sam

[Guest]

As others have said, on my registration permission form I included details of what, where, who would/could have access to photo's when asking parental permission. I explain clearly that I have no control over what happens to the content of the CD's once they have left my setting. I also considered childrens wishes when taking photo's, although I didn't ask them directly, if a child 'showed' that they didn't want their photo taken I wouldn't take one.

I have had most parents happy to give permission and just a few parents deny permission, but happy to have fuzzed out faces if theie child appears in a group photo. The main reason for this denial is to ensure the childs whereabouts were not identified (for their safety). I never put names with photo's.

I explain to parents about the forum and how I use photo's as examples, explaining that the access to them is by professional membership only.

 

I too saw the 'news' about the smiley face school, looked very bizarre. I think we need to keep the whole issue in perspective and following that story I thought to myself I might research a little (if info is available) about how SCHOOL childrens photo's are misused.

There was a discussion about it on The Wright Stuff they did a google search and found lots of inappropriatte photos on the net So their conclusion was that peadophiles (spl) would not be interested in 'school photo's', (there are plenty other ones they use) therefore concluding that if photo's on school websites ect are covered in smiley faces, then the peadophiles in our society are forcing us to restrict our freedom of choice. It was also mentioned that they felt the use of a 'smiley' was innaporopriate as it is a symbol that links to hallucinatory drugs

 

Very good advice about students, especially if name and comments are made alongside them , something I hadn't thought of.

 

I think it will be a really sad day if it came to the fact that photo's of children enjoying life and learning cannot be shared with the millions of people who value and enjoy childhood as a time in every childs life to be celebrated (through shared visual records). For me as an individual, the photo's I have taken over the years will, I know, be a wonderful keepsake to look back on and I don't think any perverted person should have the power (by default even) to stop this.

 

I have recently experienced the other side of this issue as a foster carer, all my foster children have recently had school photo's done, for their safety they cannot be included in whole group school photo's. This needs to be managed sensitively by the schools as the experience of my children during this time is just a reminder to them that they are 'different' to their peers.

When this situation occured in my preschool I would get the photographer to take one group photo with the child in it, and one without the child in the group. The latter picture distributed to other parents and the first one for the foster family.

When my eldest boy (aged 13 yrs) had group photo's this option wasn't given he felt very angry, completely excluded and anxious that the very fact he was excluded would enable his peers to 'guess' he was in foster care, a personal situation he is not yet ready to share with his peers. He is also angry that he cannot be on his schools website, his achievements etc not valued in the same way as his peers. Also, schools will make mistakes, my view of this is that I need to measure the 'risk' of my foster child accidently having his photo displayed in the wider world. How much risk does that make, so I have discussed this with him and given him strategies to work with in the event that his real parents discover where he is. So what I am saying in regard to photo's and some of the risks they may cause, be proactive in enabling the children and schools to have strategies for this. Don't let the peadophiles take away our childrens freedom of choice, otherwise we are inadvertently making our children the victims, without them even meeting one. :wacko:

 

Peggy

[Susan]

Unfortunately Peggy, with the frequent visits of the search engines, we can not assume that only dedicated professionals will visit the forum. It is for that reason that we ask for email addresses etc to be kept out of posts.

[Guest]

Unfortunately Peggy, with the frequent visits of the search engines, we can not assume that only dedicated professionals will visit the forum. It is for that reason that we ask for email addresses etc to be kept out of posts.

 

 

Thanks very much for that Susan, being a moderator I should have known that.

 

Maybe I am too innocent and naive, I just can't comprehend how a photo of a child playing can be of any interest to a peadophile. Again keeping in perspective, many, many holiday photo's are taken every year, on beaches etc that are shared 'on the net'.

 

Peggy

[Guest]

If we choose to put our own family holiday photo's available in whatever form on the internet it is at our own risk and acceptance that these could fall into undesirable hands.Making someoneelses childs photo available is different.Photos appear in searches through the titles of threads and comments made but also through the title the photo has from your PC files.So you may think you have not named or given away anything sensitive but it may still be there.I may type in a thread on 'outside play' about my daughter experimenting pouring water from a jug on a hot day when the photo has the title 'Rosie paddling pool aged 3'.

 

Prior to thinking this through I put photo's of other peoples children on threads on a forum many years ago.They are still there in archives.That was at a time the interent was fairly new and we didn't ask parental permission.On our own web site/forum we publish photo's of our events but we are all know to each other personally and its unlikely that 'classic minis attract' browsing from people with other agendas.

 

I 'found' this forum through an internet search through my interest in young children as could anyone interested in 'young children'.The fact it costs £20 didn't put me off nor would it anyone else as many undesirable sites have similair fees.I know its towards running costs but some could see it as access to hidden items.I'm not saying there's anything wrong with the fee just that we cannot assume that this site as with any other site is totally accessed with people with honourable intentions.

 

As with any new situtation that rises health/safety/education/teaching ideas we need to assess and evaluate and changes in practise that maybe implicated.

Edited March 8, 2008 by Guest

[Guest]

Thank you all for your responses. It would be good if we as practitioners had standard advice from those at the front line of all this? Possibly police/ vice squad? I don't think that's going too far- everyone is working so hard with genuine intent that it would be awful and unthinkable if something happened to a child due to our ignorance. What do others think?

[Inge]

we do a photo cd to sell every year, makes a good profit for us, often much needed..

 

before we produce it we do send a letter to all parents asking permission for child to be included and an option for their child not to be included.. we do often have some we cannot take in the setting.. again for their family safety. so have become very clever at targeting correct children and so far have managed it without the child involved noticing,

 

we also say we have no control over the pictures once they leave the setting etc etc.

 

we then produce the Cd including only those who gave permission.

 

Really not much different to allowing parents to video when doing a production for them..... they have other children's pictures on the video.. or does everyone ban this..(BTW we ask permission before to allow parents to do this)

 

Inge

[Guest]

What do you do if one parent decides they do not want their child to be videod?

[Inge]

we explain and no one does it!! or as last time the parent removed her child from choice... we did not suggest it.

 

the worries you have over photos use outside the setting still apply to other parents taking pictures/ video in the setting...you have no control over what happens to them, at least you do with ones you take..

 

Inge

[Guest]

Thank you all for your responses. It would be good if we as practitioners had standard advice from those at the front line of all this? Possibly police/ vice squad? I don't think that's going too far- everyone is working so hard with genuine intent that it would be awful and unthinkable if something happened to a child due to our ignorance. What do others think?

 

 

I think you have a valid point, I struggle with keeping the balance beteen ensuring childrens safety over being too paranoid at the cost of our childrens freedom.

I know a detective Inspector and will ask him his 'educated' view on this matter.

 

Peggy

[Susan]

Safeguarding Children training and practices should give you some of the answers you need.

Also Data protection.

 

Back to Mozart's original query if you have any doubt, which there must be with the 2 different messages you have received, dont do it! You all need to sit down and work this out together?

[Guest]

Peggy- perhaps you would be kind enough to let us know his/her thoughts on the matter through the forum? The frustrating thing is that at the moment, we have no standard guidance to follow on such an important matter and yet on other "trivial" things, we are beseiged by reams of official guidance!

[louby loo]

I'm not really sure why students would be taking photo's in the first place - as they should not be submitting them in their work anyway - I do allow them to take photo's of 'displays' ect they may have done, or pieces of finished 'works' with any names discreetly covered.

 

We do not issue Cds with photos, but we do give scrapbooks which parents have given consent for, and signed to say they will not put copies of phots on social networking sites, either now or in the future etc - but at the end of the day we have no control over what happens once they leave the setting..... but again we point this out when they sign.

 

What we do have to remember is - that with today's technology anyone can take a close up photo (if they so wanted) from a great distance... so with that in mind do we then ban outside play, or make children play within high, solid fenced-in areas? the list goes on........ and we can only do what is right for each indvidual setting/situaltion.

 

x

[Guest]

Safeguarding Children training and practices should give you some of the answers you need.

Also Data protection.

 

Back to Mozart's original query if you have any doubt, which there must be with the 2 different messages you have received, dont do it! You all need to sit down and work this out together?

 

 

I agree with you Sue in the sense that Mozart must follow the schools policy on these matters, which if not, should be agreed and made clear to all employees of the school.

As my responses may have indicated I am concerned with the 'power' that 'ne'er do goods' have over ours and our childrens civil liberties etc, even if this 'power' is by proxy, through a 'better safe than sorry' attitude of childrens carers. I am motivated to do more research in this area to measure the actual risks involved in issuing CD's. The threat of the internet of placing 'school' pics etc. I shall let you know what I find out.

 

Peggy

[Guest]

Peggy- perhaps you would be kind enough to let us know his/her thoughts on the matter through the forum? The frustrating thing is that at the moment, we have no standard guidance to follow on such an important matter and yet on other "trivial" things, we are beseiged by reams of official guidance!

 

 

I shall look into this subject more closely, I do believe I have some publications re: photographs in educational establishments - guidelines, will try and find them. I wholeheartedly understand why you would want to share pics with parents, they are a celebration of childrens lives in your care, which through photographs can be celebrated with parents. However, realistically you must follow the policy of your school.

Just had a thought, every school has photographers in, taking photo's of children of which we don't know what happens to these once they have left the school. These pictures identify children and their location. They are a good source of income for schools. Is this double standards?

 

Peggy