Guest Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 OK all you mathematitions out there, can you help. Son aged 11 yrs, Number sequence homework. 1. 3, 9, 15, _ _ _ _ 2. 20, 40, 60, _ _ _ _ yes easy so far, then there were 8 more sequence questions, managed these, now for the problem, part 2 of homework. Quote " Think very carefully now. Can you write down the short hand rule for each of the above (10) sequences? The first one has been done for you. 1. NN=LN + 2 HELP!!! What is a 'short hand rule'? Could anyone give me the short hand rule for number 2 above? Could anyone explain what the N's and L's stand for? Much appreciated, thanks. Peggy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyMaz Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 cue long pause awaiting mundia's response... Maz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyMaz Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 Does NN=LN +2 mean "next number equals last number plus 2"? So for 20, 40, 60 would it be NN=LN +20? Mind you, if that's correct I'll eat my hat. Not that I've got one, mind Maz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 My son (15) says N=L+20 I don't know why though!! Maths wasn't this hard when I was 11. Apparently the letters can be for any number. So it wouldn't matter if it was A instead of N the letters have no meaning. My son says its Algebra. Makes no sense to me either! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mundia Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 You see, you didnt need me after all That is assuming that the sequences are all relatively straightforward ones? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyMaz Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 You see, you didnt need me after all So that was right then? blimey! Maz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 I'd struggle with KS1 maths SATS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hali Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 thats why you passed your mayhs maz!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 Does NN=LN +2 mean "next number equals last number plus 2"? So for 20, 40, 60 would it be NN=LN +20? Mind you, if that's correct I'll eat my hat. Not that I've got one, mind Maz Looking at QU 1. If NN means next number & LN means Last number, then wouldn't it be 3(+2), 5,(+2) 7 and not 3, 9, 15 ??? Peggy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 My son (15) says N=L+20 I don't know why though!! Maths wasn't this hard when I was 11. Apparently the letters can be for any number. So it wouldn't matter if it was A instead of N the letters have no meaning. My son says its Algebra. Makes no sense to me either! Can you ask your son what the short hand code would be if the number between each sequence number is different. ie: QU 7: 10, 21, 43, is 10 (+11) 21 (+22) 43 (+33) 88 (+44) etc and Qu 9: 3, 8, 18, ie: +5, +10, +15, +20 etc Peggy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 Looking at QU 1. If NN means next number & LN means Last number, then wouldn't it be 3(+2), 5,(+2) 7and not 3, 9, 15 ??? Peggy apologies Maz, THANKS FOR TRYING more than I did, I just thought AAAAHHHHHHH Peggy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 You see, you didnt need me after all That is assuming that the sequences are all relatively straightforward ones? Yes we did, although thanks to all who have helped. Some sequences as you can see above are not straightforward. HELP Peggy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyMaz Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 Looking at QU 1. If NN means next number & LN means Last number, then wouldn't it be 3(+2), 5,(+2) 7and not 3, 9, 15 ??? Peggy Well that would would be NN = LN + 6, I'd have thought... Maz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rea Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 I have read all of this and have absolutley no idea what is going on and even less idea of why anyone would ask an 11 year old to do it. The mind boggles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 Can you ask your son what the short hand code would be if the number between each sequence number is different.ie: QU 7: 10, 21, 43, is 10 (+11) 21 (+22) 43 (+33) 88 (+44) etc and Qu 9: 3, 8, 18, ie: +5, +10, +15, +20 etc Peggy Q7. as the sequence is 10, 21, 43 etc etc u can see that it it 10 + 10 +1 = 21 and then the next number is 21 + 21 + 1 = 43 therefore the formula is l = n+n+1 Q9 is the same as above but +2 instead of plus 1. so it is l= n+n+2 (3+3+2 = 8) Kieran Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 Q7. as the sequence is 10, 21, 43 etc etc u can see that it it 10 + 10 +1 = 21 and then the next number is 21 + 21 + 1 = 43 therefore the formula is l = n+n+1 Q9 is the same as above but +2 instead of plus 1. so it is l= n+n+2 (3+3+2 = 8) What are you knitting? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyMaz Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 Oh how clever! Obviously if you know that biccy you must be at least at 'a' level level! Maz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 I've knitted it up and its a bedjacket for an elderly aunt-Done it in purple so its going on e-bay this afternoon! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 OH! I think you cheated on the homework.It's already been done and the answers on e-bay http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/VINTAGE-PATONS-BEDJA...1QQcmdZViewItem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mundia Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 Brenda and Biccy are quite right Peggy, using the NN and LN terminology (which can be replaced with any other symbols), you need to think about how each number relates to the previous one. In the first example, as everyone has said, each one is just 6 more than the previous one so NN (next number) = LN (last number) +6 When you get to the harder ones 10, 21, 43, think about what is happening verbally first if it helps, ie double the number add one. In short hand then, it becomes NN= (LN X 2) +1, which written algebraically is 2LN +1 So Peggy, just so that we haven't done your homework for you (I presume not yours but one of the children's?); try this one 2 5 14 41... It is important that you understand what is happening here, once you have mastered this, algebra has a habit of getting much harder very quickly. Does that help? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aliamch Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 I've been battling with my 12 year old for 2 weeks about algebra and the whole 'what's the point' & 'I'm never going to need it when I'm older'. It's got so bad that hubby's banned from going anywhere near her maths homework as the temper tantrums are awful (his are worse than hers ), but now I can honestly tell Alice that I used algebra this morning to work out a problem, I'm just not going to tell her it took me nearly two hours to work out where I was going wrong till I got to the right answer (least I think it's right!) . Karrie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 Brenda and Biccy are quite right Peggy, using the NN and LN terminology (which can be replaced with any other symbols), you need to think about how each number relates to the previous one. In the first example, as everyone has said, each one is just 6 more than the previous one so NN (next number) = LN (last number) +6 When you get to the harder ones 10, 21, 43, think about what is happening verbally first if it helps, ie double the number add one. In short hand then, it becomes NN= (LN X 2) +1, which written algebraically is 2LN +1 So Peggy, just so that we haven't done your homework for you (I presume not yours but one of the children's?); try this one 2 5 14 41... It is important that you understand what is happening here, once you have mastered this, algebra has a habit of getting much harder very quickly. Does that help? Yes a little, I think I can see that the sequence is +3, +9,+27 , so are 3x . ie:3x3=9, 9x3=27, but my mind goes blank how to shorthand this. thinking aloud now 2 (+3) =5 then 5 (+3 +3 +3)=14, then 14 (+3+3+3+3) = 26 AAHHH NN=LN+3,NN=LN+9,NN=LN+27 (rather a LONG shorthand) HELP Whilst I'm waiting for your response Mundia, I'm going to teach my son how to knit, now where did I leave my knitting needles.? Peggy p.s. My vague memory of algebra 30+ yrs ago, I didn't get it, sat at the back of the class avoiding being seen by the teacher, then I do vividly (spl) recall having a ureka moment at the end of one lesson only to find that algebra was not covered again, so I couldn't 'consolidate' my eureka moment. p.p.s. Hubby just told me that my son got highest mark in the class, in a maths test at school today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 ureka 2, 5, 14, 41 ? NN=LN x3-1 or 3LN-1 Thanks Mundia, is there a method / system for working out the differences or is it just basically 'playing with the numbers' until they fit.? Peggy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helen Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 Which one of the ELGs is all this referring to? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Wolfie Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 You lot had better just pray that your children don't decide to do A Level Maths...mine did and it was a terrible terrible experience!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susan Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 OH Helen!!! Problem solving skills, of course!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mundia Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 ureka 2, 5, 14, 41 ? NN=LN x3-1 or 3LN-1 Thanks Mundia, is there a method / system for working out the differences or is it just basically 'playing with the numbers' until they fit.? Peggy Well done Peggy, I knew you could do it! The secret there was to move away from thinking of additions and moving towards other operations, in this case multiplication. Think, put it in words first if you can. Its interesting to ask if there is a method, for someone like me, I just 'see' it. It is the single biggest reason that when we teach mathematical ideas to children, we should give them opportunities to get a 'feel' for maths, for numbers and how they relate to each other, something sometimes rather sadly lacking in favour of 'learning how to do sums'. Once upon a time in another life I wrote a module for my MEd entitled algebra in the early years, Id still stand by everything I wrote then in terms of algebraic thinking in young children (they just do it without the symbols) And now I think Ill shuffle of and change my forum mathematician title... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyMaz Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 Once upon a time in another life I wrote a module for my MEd entitled algebra in the early years, Id still stand by everything I wrote then in terms of algebraic thinking in young children (they just do it without the symbols) Now that I'd like to read! I always knew our children are clever - didn't realise just how clever they are! Maz and even if you change your title you'll still be our resident maths expert, mundia! (unless, of course, Peggy wants to apply for the position?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mundia Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 Please take it, its up for grabs.... Help me choose anew one then..... (actually maybe Ill regret that!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyMaz Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 Please take it, its up for grabs.... Help me choose anew one then..... (actually maybe Ill regret that!) It could be a whole new adventure.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.