Guest Posted December 13, 2007 Share Posted December 13, 2007 A pre-school in our area doesnt allow parents who wish to help out in sessions to bring along younger siblings because 'its against oftsed regulations'? We have always allowed (and indeed welcomed) parents to bring along younger siblings when helping out? Are we doing something wrong by allowing this? We do of course make sure they know that they are responsible for their younger child etc And we never count parent helpers in the ratios. thank you. Jenni Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyMaz Posted December 13, 2007 Share Posted December 13, 2007 Ofsted are a very handy excuse to use for all sorts of things aren't they? I have never heard of younger siblings being barred in this way. It wouldn't be appropriate for a member of staff to bring their younger child to work because the care of the younger child might compromise the care available to the children registered with the setting. However when a parent volunteer comes in to help they are not counted in adult:child ratios and therefore if they need to take time out to look after their child/prevent unwanted behaviour etc, the care for other children would not be compromised in the same way. If you took this banning-on-the-behest-of-Ofsted to its natural conclusion, Ofsted would ban new parents bringing in their very young children to look around the nursery in the first place. It just doesn't make sense. The question of whether it is acceptable/advisable/preferable for parents who come in to help on the rota to bring their younger child with them is an entirely different matter. Personally I would much rather have asked a friend to look after the baby when going in to spend some time in my daughter's pre-school so that I could concentrate on her. Similarly in the nursery if a parent wanted to come in and help and I knew the younger child's behaviour was likely to be challenging I might suggest getting a friend to look after the child! However, there may be an inclusion issue if parents with younger children are barred from coming in to help - not everyone has access to support with childcare, so I certainly wouldn't insist that she couldn't bring the child. I would remind her quite assertively that she would need to be responsible for the child's behaviour, though Maz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dublinbay Posted December 14, 2007 Share Posted December 14, 2007 Yes, quite right Maz. We have several parents who love to go on the parent rota but have to brring younger siblings along. They have never, (touch wood) been a cause for concern and always look after these younger children themselves. Love to see these Ofsted 'regulations' in writing!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 14, 2007 Share Posted December 14, 2007 During our last Ofsted inspection we had a Mother with a young sibling dong rota. Ofsted were very happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rea Posted December 14, 2007 Share Posted December 14, 2007 We always allowed younger siblings until a new chair stopped it on the grounds of insurance. Her thinking was that if a younger sibling did something which caused injury to one of our registered children the insurance would be invalid. I dont know if this is true or not, because at the time our parent help rota was diminishing anyway, but maybe a thought. I personally never had a problem with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 14, 2007 Share Posted December 14, 2007 (edited) I'm in a school so maybe it's different for us but until last academic year helpers have been allowed to bring in their children if there is no other option (whether younger or older children) however this has stopped this year. Neither staff or parents are allowed to bring their children on site between 9 and 3.30. One of the TAs daughter used to finish early every wed and she came into school to help out (she was 14) however this has now been stopped. Apparently this is down to insurance purposes. Edited December 14, 2007 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deb Posted December 14, 2007 Share Posted December 14, 2007 We do the same as you Jenni. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hali Posted December 14, 2007 Share Posted December 14, 2007 ive never heard of that either.....we have helpers and younger siblings in and just remind the parents that they are responsible for them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 15, 2007 Share Posted December 15, 2007 The last preschool group I worked in was a tiny group and the parent helper was counted in the staffing ratio's. (There was only me as staff). Our parent helpers often had one or two younger siblings with them. This was not ideal and after I left they employed an assistant as well as a leader. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 16, 2007 Share Posted December 16, 2007 I think this is one of those situations which need 'thinking through' by each individual setting. As HappyMaz mentions keep in mind 'inclusion'. I would have thought public liability insurance covers everyone, but should be checked with insurers. I personally welcomed everyone into my preschool and dealt with each parent/younger/older sibling as unique rather than having a blanket policy for or against. ( ooh weird, I'm now writing in past tense about my preschool) Peggy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyMaz Posted February 14, 2008 Share Posted February 14, 2008 A letter in today's Nursery World reminded me of this thread - a parent has written about her disgust that Ofsted have told her local group that they had "committed a serious offence and could be closed down" because they had allowed parents with their under twos to come in and help, whilst another group during their inspection had a parent helper present with her eight month old child. This went uncommented on by their inspector. Her final paragraph reads: "it appears that two inspectors given evidence of the same sitation made two entirely different inspection responses. Where is the consistency of approach and security of judgement". The million pound question: I've asked the audience: would anyone like to 'phone a friend? Maz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hali Posted February 14, 2008 Share Posted February 14, 2008 i will ...now who shall i phone???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mundia Posted February 14, 2008 Share Posted February 14, 2008 I would have thought that its the child that could affect the ratio? So if you have 16 children and two adults, then the parent comes along to help with an extra child, you now have 17. Is this not the case? I would also wonder about insurance too, when I worked in schools, children of parents helpers (especially younger ones where our facilities weren't really equipped for that younger child) were more hard work than if we didn't have the parent to help in the first place. Sadly parents didn't always take care of them and they were left to run amock, so we did have to stop them for brining their younger children with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyMaz Posted February 14, 2008 Share Posted February 14, 2008 I would have thought that its the child that could affect the ratio? So if you have 16 children and two adults, then the parent comes along to help with an extra child, you now have 17. Is this not the case? I think you can argue this either way, mundia. In my view, if you have sixteen children and two adults but a visitor arrives with another child you wouldn't count the adult in your ratios and presumably neither would the child be counted. So (always supposing the visitor is responsible for the welfare and behaviour of their own child) they would be covered under the group's third party insurance liability. It does rely on the setting making clear the rules for attending the group with a younger child, and upon the parent accepting (and taking) full responsibility for their child during the visit. The fact that this latter part doesn't always happen does mean that as you said, the workload of the staff team increases dramatically and settings begin to question the benefit of parent helpers at all. Maz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 14, 2008 Share Posted February 14, 2008 Hmmmm, so what happens in the case when I invited a parent to bring her baby in so that we could all participate in baby's bath and feed time, which concluded with a lovely photo book of the activity showing every child helping bath the baby. Mum loved it, all the other parents loved it, Ofsted loved it and although he couldn't speak, the giggles and splashing about and cooing showed us the baby loved it too. Inclusive practice, shared care, parental participation, celebrating 'family', sense of community, sense of belonging, sibling pride, etc etc. HappyMaz, hope the parent/group has complained to Ofsted and that any detrimental (if any) outcome judgement made is overturned. Off to read this weeks Nursery World now. Peggy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyMaz Posted February 14, 2008 Share Posted February 14, 2008 HappyMaz, hope the parent/group has complained to Ofsted and that any detrimental (if any) outcome judgement made is overturned.Peggy Funnily enough Peggy there was a bit of news about groups getting inspection judgements overturned to: apparently only 6 in a sample of 9,757 have been declared null and void.... Maz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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