Increase To 15hrs Entitlement

[catma]

i started a thread about this a while ago but don't thik it was so high up everyones agenda then!!

 

I do have concerns about this, where some teachers in school nursery classes will be asked to work completely differently to other teachers on the same pay and conditions in the school. If someone asked me to have longer contact than an other teacher I wouldn't be very happy about it and would probably be straight onto my union. What have NUT etc said about this in trems of protecting members rights in the workplace??

[Guest]

I was talking to a nursery teacher in a state nursery who was telling me that she now worked an extra half hour a day compared to the rest of the staff. That in turn added up to 2 and 1/2hours a week. She then asked the head what would happen when she had done her 1265 hours which would be long before the end of the summer term - she didn't get an answer. We have also to start 15 hours in September with no extra funding for staff, nowhere for the children to eat if they stay all day, no 'quiet' area. It's just going to be a complete nightmare with the possiblity of children coming and going, no continuity etc. etc. Why don't they think of the children in all this and put their needs first rather than the parents?

[Guest]

Sorry I've done it yet again... I am not suggesting that nursery education is compulsory only saying that I have been asked lately if I heard plans for this becoming the case in the future ... which I haven't.

 

 

From September maintained nurseries will be funded by actual numbers attending rather than how many children are registered

That's interesting Marion, about the funding. I personally think making PVI funding same as current maintained funding would be the better level playing field, rather than making the maintained the same as current PVI. I wonder if this will force maintained settings to start taking in even younger children. Oh, I don't even want to think about it.

 

Peggy

[Marion]

That's interesting Marion, about the funding. I personally think making PVI funding same as current maintained funding would be the better level playing field, rather than making the maintained the same as current PVI. I wonder if this will force maintained settings to start taking in even younger children. Oh, I don't even want to think about it.

 

Peggy

 

 

Well Ed Balls (the government) has promised free nursery provision for two year olds so it is a posibility...

[catma]

We're a pilot LA for the 2 yr olds - they get placed in a range of settings but not school nurseries. Often it's the children's centre 0 -3 settings. The focus seems to be identifying chn at risk of future under achievement and targetting them and their parents

[HappyMaz]

I've previously said that I thought that if PVI settings were funded according to how many children (of eligable age) they were registered for, compared to doing the cumbersome, beaurocratic headcount, this would release ill spent admin finance to the settings, and reduce te budget nightmare of seasonal / termly attendance differentiations.

 

 

Peggy

But would that just mean that the hourly rate would go down Peggy? And if the majority of groups are like mine (registered for 24 but sometimes only with 12 children) wouldn't that mean that the State would be subsidising otherwise unsustainable groups?

 

It is such a complicated issue: and such an emotive one. After all, we're not talking about widgets: we're talking about decisions that affect children's every day lives. I'm just glad its not me in charge!

 

Maz

[Guest]

But would that just mean that the hourly rate would go down Peggy? And if the majority of groups are like mine (registered for 24 but sometimes only with 12 children) wouldn't that mean that the State would be subsidising otherwise unsustainable groups?

 

It is such a complicated issue: and such an emotive one. After all, we're not talking about widgets: we're talking about decisions that affect children's every day lives. I'm just glad its not me in charge!

 

Maz

 

 

I was thinking the government could calculate a 'mediun' rate ( I know that's not the right word, maths ahh, a middle average ) per place registered for. The setting would get the same amount every term, not like now with less in the lean months of Autumn term and more in the busy summer term months.

Would they be subsidising unsustainable settings?, maybe yes but why not in this way, government funds sustainability now, but to me this is dependent on time, ability of individual settings to 'make the claim', which is also costly in man hours for the sustainability officers pay.

It is a complicated issue and emotive and I'm now glad I'm out of it all together, although I do miss the job satisfaction, jus not the financial headache I was left in.

 

Peggy

[Guest]

Well I could sort things and orchestrate staff to ensure we could put the 15hrs into place, but have no idea how staff would be able to get a lunch break - at present they have 30mins in the kitchen to eat their lunch and have a hot drink ensuring other members are with the children encouraging them to eat their lunch - how does everyone else sort out staffing breaks

[hali]

with great difficulty especiasly now ive introduced freeplay throughout the session - will have to wait and see what ofsted say!!!!!

[Guest]

Well Ed Balls (the government) has promised free nursery provision for two year olds so it is a posibility...

 

I've starting providing 2.5hour sessional childcare for 2yr olds under the pilot scheme.

At the moment it's only being offered to children who live in disadvantaged areas. I have to drive an 8 mile round trip to collect and drop off the child.....(whilst mum goes to the gym!!)

Sorry for going off topic !

[beth1]

I know Kirklees are starting the 15 hours entilement from September 08, my preschool (commitee run) is operating on a 2 1/2 hour basis at the moment (oh that looks funny, ohh can't wait to start ) we will be implemening this from September with an extra 15 mins added on at each end and that if we don't operate on a longer basis i.e. afternoon sessions.

 

The council in which I live have not said anything yet nor Bradford.

 

 

Beth

Edited March 12, 2008 by beth1

[Marion]

From September our Unit will operate from 8.45 - 11.45 and 12.30 - 3.30. Parents will have the flexibility to choose sessions and children staying over the lunchtime will have lunch in the CC supervised by their staff at a small cost.

[Lyanne]

It doesn't affect us till Sept 09, but we're planning to offer 8.45 - 11.45 and 12.10 to 3.10, with the lunch club running from 11.30 to 12.10.

 

It's a compromise. I'd prefer 8.45 - 11.45 and 12.30 - 3.30 with lunch club 11.45 to 12.30, but 2 out of 6 members of staff say this will cause problems with getting their children from school. I did point out I pay for childcare so my son can be collected as I already can't get to school in time to get him. Oh well, we've got a year to work it out.

[Guest]

Hi

I think being in a unit is difficult as we have no quiet areas as such, but I think we'll go with

8.45-11.45

and 12.15-3.15

Nursery staff will get 15 min break each in the morning and a 45min break each at lunch time. We're going to employ someone from 11.45-1.15pm

my head has asked for an action plan for funding for the provision for extra resources we need

[Guest]

How do you offer the 15hours deploy staff etc. ? As a school we work school times 9-3 so not sure how we can be flexible.

Hello Marion have just read your post and wondered if you have come up with any ideas. I am a teacher in a nursery attached to a school that has to take on board 15 hrs by sept. Same problem as you with hours, 9 -3.30, 78 places with children on the waiting list to come in. Short of space, bare bones in staffing and no budget ( except extra funding for the 15 hours which will be used for lunch time supervision). We are not in close proximity to a sure start centre or any other setting so feel we cannot liase with anything suitable to provide other options for flexible provision-so it's down to us. At the moment we are looking at offering 2 1/2 days , all day mon. tues and wed a.m. then opposite for the other three sessions but we feel that the powers that be will not see this as flexible enough.

[Guest Rouse1]

Hi. First time I've ever logged on but had to comment on article!

I too run a sessional preschool and having similar problems. We use the village school hall and currently open for 4 2.5 hr sessions. Our development officer advised us to open from 8.30 (instead of 9.00) until 11.30 so we cover the 3 hours but we are having difficulty persuading the school head to make the hall available to us on the fifth day. She has been picked up on it by Ofsted for not having access to her own hall for the school children! By opening from 8.30am we have been told we can use that time for setting up while the children are there (as we normally start at 8.15) and only have to inform parents that the preschool is 'available' from 8.30. Most parents have said they won't come until 9.00 anyway as they drop the older siblings off at school at 8.50. I am gradually working the head around this problem as she realises how valuable we are as a feeder for the school but regarding your situation could you not get petitions from parents and letters of persuasion from ofsted (such a good report!) and your mentor rather than have to close?

 

 

hi

what are your thoughts on this subject now

im being asked daily from the early years team what im doing they say ive only got till sept to make my mind up shat do i do. im a private day nursery cants see ita going to work . worried about what the payments will be as i already loose out on N grant now. i feel if i dont sign up il be an out cast......

can anyone help me or suggest where i can get the answers its not form the early years team as they just want me to go ahead help help

[Guest]

Hi Andreamay

There is a local primary school a mile down the road (we were initially set up 11 yrs ago to feed into them with the promise of being on their site at a later date.) However a few years ago when we approached them about possibly looking to find a portacabin to relocate on site we were told quite clearly that there is absolutely no room for a pre school! We felt very let down as you can imagine! Although they do see us as 'theirs' the only links we have is that most of our children move on to that school, and the reception teacher comes for a 'chat' for half an hour at this time of year before the new starters arrive.

Would we still be in the same position though if we were operating from a portacabin wouldn't we? I suppose we would have a few more sessions available to increase into?

 

 

Hi, we already operate 15 hours in Worcestershire and like you i worried about it to start. We operate monday 9 - 12.45, tuesday and wednesday 9 - 2.45 and thursday/ friday 9 -12.45. we, like you have to work around other hirers, we went to the caretaker and asked nicely to let us have some afternoons... we just offer the days as they are and different parents use it in different ways. the sessions run into each other with extra staff to cover for breaks. hope this helps...

[Guest]

I too am in Worcestershire in a nursery attached to a school.

 

We offer 15 hours per week and have done for the past year as a pathfinder county.

 

Our initial worry was not finishing in line with school, and we felt this would have a detrimental effect on the up take in the afternoon nursery but we were then told that our lunch club could be used to "top up" the extra half an hour.

 

It worked really well and then the LA cut our afternoon session anyway and so we opened up privately to offer our parents flexibility and carried on using the lunch club to provide that extra half an hour.

 

Now, some of our children have the opportunity to stay all day!

 

Staffing wise, I work in the LA nursery in the morning from 9 -11.30 then I have lunch (one hour) and come back to manage afternoon private provision.

 

I have a member of staff who starts work at 11.30 as lunch club starts (alongside another staff member) and she then works through the afternoon session with me.

 

For 2 terms out of the three last year, we had a third member of staff for lunch and afternoon nursery as numbers were above 16.

 

Of course how we will manage 20 hours a week is another matter............ to ber worried about later!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[lmwhite]

Hi

 

I know this conversation was a while ago, but we are in the process of trying to change our hours, to include 3 hour sessions to be ready for 2010 deadline.

 

Is there anyone in Essex who is already piloting this? I wondered if the grant funding had gone up at all and if so by how much? We run to a very strict budget and run out of a village hall, we have recently introduced a voluntary donation as we are struggling. Just wonder of the money will cover extra staff costs.

 

Lisa.

[sam2368]

Just to bump this up again....

End of and start of sessions are crucial to us for catching up with parents; the half an hour prior to opening is used for staff meetings & prep of the rooms & outdoor area.

those of you who have already implmented the extended sessions, how are you managing to finance the extra hours needed for staff meetings which will now have to be evening meetings; and how are you managing to maintain strong lines of communication with parents - please don't say writing daily in a home school diary - we just wouldn't have time with 3 staff & 20 children per morning & afternoon session & lunch club.

We spend so much of or own time writing up learning journeys & retrospective plans & have just been given the learning and development files to do for school too (I've yet to break that little gem to the staff!).

 

Sam