Guest Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 I recieved a letter from Ofsted on Friday giving the reqiurements for the childcare register for childminders.( thanks Ofsted -lots of notice there!!) I m just working my way through it and noticed that it states that when dealing with with a complaint that childminders must inform the parents of the outcome of a complaint within 20 days . Eyfs framework states 28 days Do you think this a printing error or have they moved the goal posts again already ????!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyMaz Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 Do you think this a printing error or have they moved the goal posts again already ????!!!!!!! I did just check that this wasn't a change they made in the May 2008 version of the EYFS, but it still says 28 days. I think a call to Ofsted might be in order, don't you? I'd personally vote for the typo option: but it wouldn't be the first time the goal posts had moved... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 Hi thanx Thats what I m hoping.just worth checking in case i d missed something Will contact Ofsted and let you know the outcome Watch this space!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 2, 2008 Share Posted September 2, 2008 Well Ofsted does it again!!!!!!!!!! I got my answer apparently they are both correct!!!!!!!!!! The 28 days is for EYFS -under 5 s the 20 days is for the childcare register which is 5 years and over!!!!!!!!!!!! WHY OH WHY do they need to be different ? or is this a ploy to catch us out by having the wrong information on the complaint form? Like when they changed their telephone number then pulled people up for having the wrong one!! Words fail me -and I was feeling quite positive about EYFS today!!!!!!!!!! till I read this email Argh !!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest peekleeds Posted September 2, 2008 Share Posted September 2, 2008 snap I spent most of the weekend going through my paperwork, having only reviewed all my policies in May and June, to ensure it met the requirements . I have changed my complaints procedure to 20 days. At my last inspection I had a written procedure but because it didn't say 28 days I missed out on an outstanding - not going to make that mistake again. Why are there not enough hours in the day to get through this paper work mountain I seem to have accumulated during the school holidays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyMaz Posted September 3, 2008 Share Posted September 3, 2008 I had a written procedure but because it didn't say 28 days I missed out on an outstanding - not going to make that mistake again. Now how on earth could the Ofsted inspector justify taking that position? Its things like this that push my cynicism button - it makes me wonder if there's a quota for the number of groups that can be outstanding. I have visions of the inspector getting out her magnifying glass looking for something to find to enable her to downgrade an outstanding group to a good one. But then I am exceptionally cynical! Maz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jane707 Posted September 4, 2008 Share Posted September 4, 2008 I am trying to resolve this one at the moment... they have actually moved a number of goal posts. Ofsted couldn't help me and have referred me to the Directorate, who are also not answering my questions properly. These are the differences between eyfs and the new registers information - Can you please clarify the following points – The EYFS states – ‘The record of complaints should be kept for at least three years’. The letter from Ofsted about the new Registration states – ‘childminders must keep a written record for a period of 2 years’. The EYFS states – ‘Registered providers must investigate all written complaints relating to the requirements and notify complainants of the outcome of the investigation within 28 days of having received the complaint’. The letter from Ofsted about the new Registration states –‘Within 20 days of the date the complaint was made’. The EYFS states – ‘Childminders are not required to have written policies and procedures. See paragraphs 3.8 and 3.9.’ The letter from Ofsted about the new Registration states –‘childminders must have a written statement of procedures to be followed in relation to complaints’ and ‘Childminders must keep and implement a written statement of procedures to be followed for the protection of children’. The EYFS states – ‘Records relating to individual children should be retained for a reasonable period of time (for example three years) after the children have left the provision.’ The letter from Ofsted about the new Registration states –‘Childminders must keep records and retain them for a period of 2 years’ The EYFS states that childminders do not to have specific qualifications, except for having completed an introductory course and First Aid. A childminder has been told, on the phone to Ofsted this morning, that Childminders must have a level 2 course by 2011. And this, if you haven't all gone to sleep by now, is Ofsted's initial answer... I have queried it already but got a load of claptrap back so I am re-querying it... The differences you have highlighted are between the two new registers and they are not discrepancies. All providers must meet the requirements of whichever register/s or part of a register they are on. There are a few requirements that differ between the Childcare Register and the Early Years Register and one does not subsume the other, so all requirements for both registers must be met. A childminder who is registered on the Early Years Register and the compulsory and voluntary part of the Childcare Register must comply with the differing requirements for example - If a childminder is only registered on the Early Years Register so only cares for children aged from Birth to 31 August following the child’s fifth birthday they are not required to have written procedures for complaints and Child protection; If they are also registered on the Childcare Register to care for children after the end of the EYFS then they must have written procedures for the children cared for in this age group. Providers should ensure that their provision is able to meet both sets of requirements and this is true of all of the examples you have set out. This does not mean for example that you would have to have a separate risk assessment for the different registers but providers would need to ensure that the risk assessment reflected both parts of the registers and any difference in the specific requirements. i do not understand why Ofsted have changed the LAW of the EYFS in these ways... is it ratified? Is it to confuse? is it to trip people up at inspections? Is it because we thought we were doing the right thing following Eyfs and they don't want us to get complacent? Is it because they can find childminders who follow Eyfs unsatisfactory and get rid of them? Wish me luck!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyMaz Posted September 4, 2008 Share Posted September 4, 2008 i do not understand why Ofsted have changed the LAW of the EYFS in these ways... is it ratified? Is it to confuse? is it to trip people up at inspections? Is it because we thought we were doing the right thing following Eyfs and they don't want us to get complacent? Is it because they can find childminders who follow Eyfs unsatisfactory and get rid of them? I'm not a great fan of the conspiracy theory in most cases and I'm certainly not an apologist for Ofsted (makes them sound like some kind of terrorist organisation, doesn't it?) but I wonder if this is all down to which register you are on. If it were me, to be on the safe side I would go with whichever is the most stringent 'law' and go with that. So if it says that you need keep records for either three or two years, then go for three. If it says in one place you don't need a policy, but in another it says you do, then have one. How many registers are you on? I do wish you luck: apart from anything else Ofsted must be inundated with calls right now so it will be a frustrating time for them and us. Let us know what you find out - and how long it is before steam comes out of your ears and it feels like your brain might just exlode... Maz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 4, 2008 Share Posted September 4, 2008 I'm quite confused as to the rationalle behind these differences per register, a child is a child whichever register they are cared for under, so policy and admin requirements should be the same shouldn't they? Peggy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyMaz Posted September 4, 2008 Share Posted September 4, 2008 I'm quite confused as to the rationalle behind these differences per register, a child is a child whichever register they are cared for under, so policy and admin requirements should be the same shouldn't they? I must admit this confuses me too, Peggy. I know that one of our LEA advisers said that the standards for early years practitioners are the most stringent - I guess because of the age of children and the potentially long hours they spend in day care. Not quite sure how it is justified though: perhaps its designed to keep the paperwork systems as light as possible so as not to put off potential carers? But what do I know? Perhaps Bezza could come out of hiding and let us know? Maz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 4, 2008 Share Posted September 4, 2008 I must admit this confuses me too, Peggy. I know that one of our LEA advisers said that the standards for early years practitioners are the most stringent - I guess because of the age of children and the potentially long hours they spend in day care. Not quite sure how it is justified though: perhaps its designed to keep the paperwork systems as light as possible so as not to put off potential carers? But what do I know? Perhaps Bezza could come out of hiding and let us know? Maz Maz, I thought it was Howard Hughes who was the recluse not Beverly, come on where are you Beverly, we are starting to convince ourselves that you are really here, in disguise, are you? Go on show yourself, we are really a friendly bunch, promise Peggy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hali Posted September 4, 2008 Share Posted September 4, 2008 i quite agree Peggy they should be the same! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 5, 2008 Share Posted September 5, 2008 blimey jane707 I had nt even picked up on half of those!!! I thought I d got it sussed (sort of) and now I feel like I m falling into some big black hole!!!! I ve just had an email back from ofsted about the complaints policy differences in 20 /28 days and have been told yes i will need two policies in place to cover the differences!!!!! it states Thank you for your e-mail. Again, you are correct. To ensure that you are covering what is expected of you under both the Early Years and Childcare registers you would have to ensure that a separate complaint policy is in place for each of the registers requirements. I give up !!! Tesco s looks more inviting every day!! (no offence to tesco staff) This seems like some sort of mental torture`!!! stop the world I want to get off!!!!!!!!!!!!!! A thought though !! if a parent complains (hopefully that ll never happen) you care for 2 (or more) of their children and they have one child on the eyfs register and one on the childcare register .which procedure would you follow? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 6, 2008 Share Posted September 6, 2008 Ok i can understand Ofsted having 2 separate requirements for the new childcare registers (actually 3 different requirements if you compare what you don't need for the Voluntary part). I will express my concern because I am on both registers and on both parts of the Childcare Register(EYR,CR & VCR). The whole reassurance for childminders was the ' there is not an increase in paperwork' with regard to EYFS (as stated in the requirements regarding polcies), however now they are saying that although I don't need these policies in writing for the EYFS, I will need them for the Childcare register!? Something is not right especially as I was told if you are on both registers you will be inspected against the EYFS framework as it is more stringent. Clearly the requirements on the Childcare register seem more stringent:- Written policies, complaints resolved in 20 days not 28 days - Is this a ploy to trip childminders and out of school provisions up? I have just responded to a query regarding the qualification requirements on another thread, putting these all together, I am worried about Ofsted's understanding and our interpretation of all of the requirements especially as Ofsted hold the 'judgement' key!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue R Posted September 6, 2008 Share Posted September 6, 2008 Now how on earth could the Ofsted inspector justify taking that position? Its things like this that push my cynicism button - it makes me wonder if there's a quota for the number of groups that can be outstanding. I have visions of the inspector getting out her magnifying glass looking for something to find to enable her to downgrade an outstanding group to a good one. But then I am exceptionally cynical! Maz Hmm - well, our report read like an Oscar citation (or something), but Good was the result. When pressed, Inspector suggested 'the hairs on the back of the neck should stand up' - that to me is a Horror film!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyMaz Posted September 6, 2008 Share Posted September 6, 2008 Hmm - well, our report read like an Oscar citation (or something), but Good was the result. When pressed, Inspector suggested 'the hairs on the back of the neck should stand up' - that to me is a Horror film!!!!! But what makes the hair on the back of my neck stand up is presumably very different to what makes yours stand up. That's hardly a scientific measurement method, is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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