Six Sessions

[skippy]

Hi just wondering if anyone knows when does the goverment intend to implement the six funded sessions? and where I can find info from Thanks

[Guest Wolfie]

I must have missed something...that's news to me?

[alis2son]

Me too, i thought they were only increasing the 2.5 hrs to 3 hrs?

[skippy]

Sorry my wording not great we had been told from another setting that at present children recieve 5 session of 2.5 hrs that are funded and that soon it would be going up to 6 session funded for 2.5 hrs. Thought that we had missed something?

[Guest]

I haven't heard of six sessions-as alis2son says the hours should be going up to 3 per session so giving 15 hours. Which is the same as 6 2 1/2 hours. Not sure when it is all supposed to happen though.

linda

[Guest]

My understanding about the increase was that it was going to go up to 15 hours a week with flexibility for the parent to use it over say three days and they could request this, though not necessarily expect it. i think this is to help parents with more opportunity to work. Hence the increase in 'wrap around care too' Others may know more-or different.

[Guest]

I think it is going to come into play in 2008 or 2010.

 

It is all to do with the 'pathfinder' thing (sorry can't remember what its called). If you already have a 'good' ofsted inspection then you can join the pathfinder now and start implementing the 15 hours from next term.

 

We recently had an audit from the FABS team who were telling us about it.

 

I was given the number for Gordon Beck 0116 265 8252 who should be able to help you with your enquiries.

[Guest toddleo]

Don't recall where I heard it but 2010 sounds familiar to me too.

[Inge]

some areas are trialing the 15 hours at the moment I believe, and results and feedback from that may have some influence on implementation, we were told not in this areas this year, but had to repond to a questionairre as to how we could implement it or problems we see arising - like not able to extend hours due to hire times etc.

 

Inge

[Guest]

hello

 

I am part of the pathfinder trial at the moment and we can offer 15 hours flexibly to our pre-school children. That means they can choose what time they start and when they leave - some choose to start at 9.30 others at 10 and some leave at 12, some at 12.30 and some at 1pm.

 

The 15 hours can be taken over a maximum of 5 sessions a week - so they can't do seperate morning and afternoon's, it's one long session to get the 15 hours.

 

Must say we have offered the flexible offer but most of my parents just want stability 9.30 - 12.30 (3 hours every day)

 

Also claim our nursery grant by the hour and not sessionally as we used to.

 

Our trial finishes April 2008 and then the findings go back to the DFES with a view to implementing by 2010.

 

Must say though it was all very rushed we signed up in March to start in April this year - we are getting extra funding though to help which is very nice.

 

Hope this helps

[Guest Wolfie]

It all sounds very interesting but with all those different start and finish times the mind boggles at how your routines and planning are affected? Have you had to make any major changes to how you run your sessions?

[Guest]

same query as Wolfie, also the thought of paperwork to claim on an hourly rate rather than sessional worries me, do you have to state specific hours attended or just the total number of hours per child per week attendence?

 

Peggy

[Guest]

Do the ones that leave at 1 have lunch then, or this not an option that you give? What about children having afternoon session, do you get children starting at 12.30 and leaving at 3.30 too then, overlapping with the morning children?

[Guest]

Yes you are right it has taken some getting used to - but we are getting there. It was hairy for the first few weeks.

 

Basically parents buy there pre-school session by the hour now not by the session -it has meant we need to stop thinking about the whole session thing and go for days. Parents have choosen not to change all, others have taken everything. Fortunatley none of my parents have gone for the minimum which is 1 hour at pre-school.

 

We were very fortunate as we were only open 5 sessions a week and so it's been easy to extend (that's why we agreed to the trial)- we now open 16 1/2 hours aweek compared with 12 1/2 so we have not needed to worry about afternoon children.

 

We run our same basic day free play, adult led etc unchanged until tidy up time and then we divide into exit groups (with coloured bands to wear so they don't join the wrong group) about 11.45 and these groups do an activity. The children now know there band colour and routine really well.

 

We have said any children staying after 12.00 have lunch and they go into our seperate room for their packed lunch, followed by home or small group, circle time then home

 

It is tricky to make sure all the adullts are in the right place and we still haven't got our packing away sorted ( we are in a community centre) as obviously we only receiving funding for those children staying for the extra time so not all the adults are needed. But if I send them home who tidies up. We will get there. But we can leave at 1.15 or 2.15 who knows! also staff meetings are difficult as we used to have them 1 afternoon a week, but now we work and all the staff have school aged children to pick up at 3pm.

 

On the funding it's fine you don't have to specify the hours just the weekly total. Not a lot different really.

 

I am really relaxed about the whole flexible thing now.

[Buttercup]

Hi

 

I am just setting up a new playgroup. We have opted to do this flexible approach as our county is on the pilot scheme. A child can have 15 hours of NEF which can be used a minimun of 2.5 hrs or a max 5 hrs. We have planned sessions as follows. 1. 9.00-12.00 3hrs

2. 9.00-1.00 4hrs

3. 9.00-2.00 5hrs

4. 9.00-3.00 6hrs Parents pay for the extra hour this is for people that want to pick their children up from school as we are on the school site.

 

so far the uptake is good especially lunch time. if parents have used their 15hrs then we charge £3.18 per hour for extra hours which is what the nursery funding is.

 

It is all about giving parents more choice especially those who work. We do not want to be like a nursery and want to keep that playgroup feel.

 

hope this helps

 

angela

[HappyMaz]

so far the uptake is good especially lunch time. if parents have used their 15hrs then we charge £3.18 per hour for extra hours which is what the nursery funding is.

 

So if I was operating in your area, when parents are given 15 hours of funding at £3.18 an hour, I would lose 57p per child per hour, based on this year's fees (which will go up for the first time in two years in January).

 

And don't get me started on what might happen if parents started to take only an hour at a time...!

 

Maz

[Inge]

Hi

 

I am just setting up a new playgroup. We have opted to do this flexible approach as our county is on the pilot scheme. A child can have 15 hours of NEF which can be used a minimun of 2.5 hrs or a max 5 hrs. We have planned sessions as follows. 1. 9.00-12.00 3hrs

2. 9.00-1.00 4hrs

3. 9.00-2.00 5hrs

4. 9.00-3.00 6hrs Parents pay for the extra hour this is for people that want to pick their children up from school as we are on the school site.

 

so far the uptake is good especially lunch time. if parents have used their 15hrs then we charge £3.18 per hour for extra hours which is what the nursery funding is.

 

It is all about giving parents more choice especially those who work. We do not want to be like a nursery and want to keep that playgroup feel.

 

hope this helps

 

angela

 

what about afternoon sessions, we currently offer 2 sessions a day so children start at 12.30 allowing us to have up to 40 a day (our limit 20 per session)

some parents only want afternoon sessions so we feel this gives more flexibilty and choice,

(but dont get me started on all day sessions, as all will know we cannot have them!!!!)

[Buttercup]

So if I was operating in your area, when parents are given 15 hours of funding at £3.18 an hour, I would lose 57p per child per hour, based on this year's fees (which will go up for the first time in two years in January).

 

And don't get me started on what might happen if parents started to take only an hour at a time...!

 

Maz

 

 

I suppose yes. I am finding it hard going from a childminder charging £3.25 hr to running the playgroup and having to charge £3.18 per hour. Although this is better than what happens at the moment. children are charged per session which is £5 for 2 1/2 hours. We are still running afternoon sessions for children 2-3yrs. these are charged at £5 for the 2 1/2 hour session as I do not feel we can charge anymore as that is the going rate for playgoups. No money will be made though as staff ratios 1:4 luckily it is not long until they are voucherable.

 

i know nurserys are having problems with what they charge and the value of the Nursery voucher. As a childminder I could access NEF but would be loosing 7p per hour. Not much but soon adds up especially with all the extra paper work. If the government wants all this they are going to have to put their hands in their pockets a bit more so we are not out of pocket.

 

angela

[Guest]

But if you are a sessional pre-school does this not mean that you turn into full daycare as your sessions are lasting longer than 2 1/2 hrs a day? then meaning that you have to pay OFSTED extra is it £125 instead of £18?

 

the problem for us would be that having two three hour sessions would mean we have no one to pick up our children from school and look after them.

 

I just don't get how this would realistically work especially now they want everyone to be trained up too. The higher the level everyone is trained to the more wages you have to pay and I am not sure that is feasible on the current NEG

 

Deb

[Inge]

sessional care is up to 4 hours, anything longer which does not have a break with no children in your care becomes full daycare.

 

so you can open 2 x 3 hour sessions and have a 15 min break between with no children in your care and remain sessional. in theory you could run 2 x 3hrs and 55 mins sessions with a break between and remain sessional.

 

and if parents collect a child at end of one session they can then come in for next one, so long as you have a period with no children in your care.

 

who decided on these rules?

 

and agree the extra payment is it worth it, but you can access more for full daycare in transformation fund for graduate pay and in our area we could have had a grant to develop outside area too as well as help for the first 2 years with costs for change...hey ho..

 

inge